Swing thought question specific to the driver/woods
JFlores
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Play left side of tee box, strong grip, wide arc with an in to out swing path and picture the ball curve, then again what do I know. In the end need to figure out why the face is open at impact. I'm sure once you load up the video, guys will help.
rollin
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Agree with this ^^^^^
You know, not to sound mean to the OP in any way and is not my intent at all but we (most all players) cant do everything we want. I understand when one hits overly heavy fades or draws (basically almost slices and hooks) and has to aim way far right or left in order to compensate just to play the game and to avoid many errant shots. Imo people who do that should try to fix the issue and some don't care which is also fine if that's how they have fun but having to do that in order to play is not something that would satisfy me.
However, with that said what in the world is wrong with any shot even if undesired that is not errant and doesn't cause some drastic measure to keep the ball in play? Through the years (when hitting the driver well) I usually hit a slight draw most those times. All of a sudden last year (when having good driver rounds) I somehow started hitting slight fades most those times. Its not what I intended, never did it before, and did baffle me a tad but it was working very well and so I went with it. Now if I began slicing errantly I would of had to fix it but just because those fades wasn't my choice shot doesn't mean I had to fix them.
For most the golfing world if fixing things to an almost zero tolerance was achievable we would all be playing on tour or at least single digit cappers. Many times we simply need to leave good enough alone and don't fix what isn't really broken. Golf imo is not so much a game of how many shots we hit but is a game of how many and how poorly we miss. And "good enough" for most people is just that, Its good enough
Heck! even pros will play with whatever game they bring that day. Many here (and many real good players) who play competitive golf have stated such in threads in the past. "Play whatever my game allows me to that day". That's all considered imo part of managing ones game.Unless your current shot flaw is (detrimental) not good enough and is leaving you very short or very errant and out of play, so what if its not the shot shape you want. I started using my new unintentional developed slight fade and was not my intent but it worked just as well and was just as good enough as the draw I use to have. FF to this year and I've struggled with the driver in every way more so than ever before in my life. Never had I had such a horrible driver spell last so long round after round. It even brought me back to a lesson and still didn't work. Only in my last two rounds before winter set in did I finally start hitting it good again. I had to choke up about 3/4 to 1 inch. Something I never had to do before ever. But it worked very well and even my draw came back a tad and guess what? Choking up (something I never had to do with my driver ever) is what I'll be doing next time I play. Why? Because it worked well and "well enough" is just that - its well enough.
Just like I played my slight fade last year, I will be choking up next time I play and keep doing it as long as it works well Then something else will set in - who knows?? i'll deal with it when it happens and as long as its not a poor errant ball striking thing (such as my driver was this year) then I'll be happy to just take the good that my game offers me as long as its working even if not what I truly want.
salisboss
RIP Jake 8/17/01-9/21/14
I think you are mininterpreting what I am saying. I am saying that maybe your problem from the top to the bottom is caused by something at setup even if you are hitting your positions on the way up. For me I could always get the club up no problem but then my brain would think "oh crap I have to contort and manipulate the downswing in order to try and square up". Maybe your body/hand unit can't get the club square because of something much earlier in the swing so rather than necessarily drilling the top to club parallel with the ground make sure everything else is tight even before you start your backswing because it can gradually snowball.
salisboss
RIP Jake 8/17/01-9/21/14
Agree with this ^^^^^
You know, not to sound mean to the OP in any way and is not my intent at all but we (most all players) cant do everything we want. I understand when one hits overly heavy fades or draws (basically almost slices and hooks) and has to aim way far right or left in order to compensate just to play the game and to avoid many errant shots. Imo people who do that should try to fix the issue and some don't care which is also fine if that's how they have fun but having to do that in order to play is not something that would satisfy me.
However, with that said what in the world is wrong with any shot even if undesired that is not errant and doesn't cause some drastic measure to keep the ball in play? Through the years (when hitting the driver well) I usually hit a slight draw most those times. All of a sudden last year (when having good driver rounds) I somehow started hitting slight fades most those times. Its not what I intended, never did it before, and did baffle me a tad but it was working very well and so I went with it. Now if I began slicing errantly I would of had to fix it but just because those fades wasn't my choice shot doesn't mean I had to fix them.
For most the golfing world if fixing things to an almost zero tolerance was achievable we would all be playing on tour or at least single digit cappers. Many times we simply need to leave good enough alone and don't fix what isn't really broken. Golf imo is not so much a game of how many shots we hit but is a game of how many and how poorly we miss. And "good enough" for most people is just that, Its good enough
Unless your current shot flaw is (detrimental) not good enough and is leaving you very short or very errant and out of play, so what if its not the shot shape you want. I started using my new unintentional developed slight fade and was not my intent but it worked just as well and was just as good enough as the draw I use to have. FF to this year and I've struggled with the driver in every way more so than ever before in my life. Never had I had such a horrible driver spell last so long round after round. It even brought me back to a lesson and still didn't work. Only in my last two rounds before winter set in did I finally start hitting it good again. I had to choke up about 3/4 to 1 inch. Something I never had to do before ever. But it worked very well and even my draw came back a tad and guess what? Choking up (something I never had to do with my driver ever) is what I'll be doing next time I play. Why? Because it worked well and "well enough" is just that - its well enough.
Just like I played my slight fade last year, I will be choking up next time I play and keep doing it as long as it works well Then something else will set in - who knows?? i'll deal with it when it happens and as long as its not a poor errant ball striking thing (such as my driver was this year) then I'll be happy to just take the good that my game offers me as long as its working even if not what I truly want.
In this case the OP's problem is detrimental (7-9 lost balls of the tee a round).
rollin
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yea, then that would be detrimental. Sorry about that. I read along the thread and sometimes lose myself within all the thoughts and posts. The term "fade" and even "push fade" has been used enough and doesn't have to mean detrimental but surly having 8 errant lost balls a round because of it requires a fix.
However, when the OP also then says this ^^^^^ then my last post is not so out of place at all imo.
-CRW-
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Well a people's post comes across as if they think I'm somehow hung up on idea of positions or angles during/throughout the swing, and that is not the case. I only use swing thoughts, and at the advice of others, only try and use one swing thought at a time. Typically it's something like "flat lead/left wrist" or "turn the lead/left hand in and down" (both ways to "backhand" the ball).
I spent some time on the range last night with about 50% positive results with the driver and 75% with the 3 wood by trying to keep close to a flat left wrist throughout the swing and sort of extend my rear/right arm toward the ball (like a piston) on the downswing. I've tried the "piston" swing thought with the right arm before, but without the thought of keeping the lead/left wrist flat, and that led to my right arm overpowering the left and pushing outward instead of down and forward which resulted in some horrible shanks. I didn't have any shanks last night combining the two thoughts. I also think that some of the 50% worth of bad shots I had were me just needing to get comfortable with the motion created by those swing thoughts, and the rest were me doing things I shouldn't (over swinging, coming up out of posture, moving my upper body forward out of the swing versus shifting my weight properly). It definitely needs more range time, but was promising. I had my 3 wood lofted up from neutral (closed face) and started hooking with this idea and had to drop the loft back to neutral to get it closer to straight-ish on my good shots. I left the 460 SLDR head on at neutral (10.5) and with the weight all the way to draw. I didn't see any hooks with the driver, so I think the weight there (closer to the shaft) is helping.
If weather permits I want to bring my 430 SLDR head to the range and do some side by side comparisons this evening. I was hooking the crap out of the 430 over the past few weeks, but was using a different swing thought with a stronger grip that was the same thoughts/grip that was causing me to hook my irons.
-CRW-
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Very detrimental. Not every hole on the courses I play have tight fairways, but most are tight, and almost every one is heavily tree lined on the right side of the fairway with thick under brush. Sometimes by pushes and push-fades are only a few yards into the tree line (like land in the fairway or right side rough and roll into the tree line), but it's so thick that there is no shot out of there but sideways and I'm not crawling into brush like that without snake boots and hip waders.
I have thought about altering the way I score in the future. Specifically, if I can see the ball, but just don't want to go get it I will treat it as unplayable and drop a ball along the line between the tee box and where the ball is and just take a 1 stroke penalty without going back to the tee box to try and re-hit. But this isn't always an option for me because sometimes I can't see or find the ball. And those penalties would still hurt me enough to keep me in the mid 90's range.
Tadashi70
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I am wondering how long you've been with your coach. It's interesting that you hit draws nicely with irons but not driver and he thinks it's an open club face. The combination you speak of is usually associated with getting out in front of the ball.
Setting up with the ball between your left shoulder and chin my help with this. Just my two cents.
-CRW-
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...
You know, not to sound mean to the OP in any way and is not my intent at all but we (most all players) cant do everything we want...
I don't buy that. I currently don't have any physical limitations to keep me from doing what I need to do to create the shot I want. The limitations I have a mental. I can work to train my brain to do what I want. The question is how long will it take? 5 years, 10 years, 20 years (and somewhere in that time will I take on physical limitations that will keep me from doing what I want either because of aging or injury).
However, with that said what in the world is wrong with any shot even if undesired that is not errant and doesn't cause some drastic measure to keep the ball in play? ...
There is no problem on the course if it's playable. I wouldn't be upset in such a scenario and would move on to the next shot guilt free. That's something I would chalk up to lack of experience or time in the game and work on correcting later on at the range. But as already stated, this is mostly about the driver/3 wood for me and the bad shots are detrimental.
For most the golfing world if fixing things to an almost zero tolerance was achievable we would all be playing on tour or at least single digit cappers. Many times we simply need to leave good enough alone and don't fix what isn't really broken. Golf imo is not so much a game of how many shots we hit but is a game of how many and how poorly we miss. And "good enough" for most people is just that, Its good enough
I'm a type A personality with borderline OCD (self-diagnosed - if someone moved something an inch on my desk while I was away, I would know it). I'm good with "good enough", but my definition of "good enough" right now is not where I'm at. Once I get past this issue I probably (likely) take on a new definition of "good enough" and won't be there at that point. My ultimate goal isn't to be a tour player, that to me is unreasonable. My goal is to shoot in the 70's and be able to travel and do that. I have no time limit on my goal and have been playing for close to 18-19 months now (started the game later in life). I'm frustrated at times on the range when things do go like I want them, but it isn't keeping me from playing or enjoying the game.
...
See above...
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Damn this thread is absolutely fascinating!
Opinions are like a**holes: everybody has one; and here's mine:
CRW is obviously invested in becoming a better player. But, in my opinion, he is going about it the wrong way. With a self-described decent swing speed, a decent swing with irons and a decent short game, a 31-handicap and that many penalty shots off the tee is simply unacceptable! He knows more about his positions, numbers, etc... than I will ever know about my swing; that is a mind-cluttering death spiral in my opinion.
So what to do???
In my opinion, get the Hell out the range and figure it out by trial and error! Get some alignment rods and set up square or slightly closed (to promote the straight to slight draw shape) and start hitting balls with that setup. If you're push-fading, try a) strengthening your grip, b) moving the ball up in your stance, c) trying to hit the inside of the ball with the toe of your driver, d) feel like you are trying to point the watch (imaginary or real) on your left wrist toward the ground through impact, e) finishing low and left, f) holding your right shoulder back longer, g) any other tips THPers are willing to share or h) something you concoct on your own!
Every golfer should learn how to hook/draw and slice/fade on command for escape and trouble shots. Get out there and hit a big slinging hook and then start tempering that until you are drawing the ball comfortably.
My point is, go dig the answers up out of the dirt, then take your new swing to the launch monitor to CONFIRM that you are on the right track!
Where are you in Texas CRW? Get your butt over to Humble and I'll not leave the range until you've got it!
Opinions are like a**holes: everybody has one; and here's mine:
CRW is obviously invested in becoming a better player. But, in my opinion, he is going about it the wrong way. With a self-described decent swing speed, a decent swing with irons and a decent short game, a 31-handicap and that many penalty shots off the tee is simply unacceptable! He knows more about his positions, numbers, etc... than I will ever know about my swing; that is a mind-cluttering death spiral in my opinion.
So what to do???
In my opinion, get the Hell out the range and figure it out by trial and error! Get some alignment rods and set up square or slightly closed (to promote the straight to slight draw shape) and start hitting balls with that setup. If you're push-fading, try a) strengthening your grip, b) moving the ball up in your stance, c) trying to hit the inside of the ball with the toe of your driver, d) feel like you are trying to point the watch (imaginary or real) on your left wrist toward the ground through impact, e) finishing low and left, f) holding your right shoulder back longer, g) any other tips THPers are willing to share or h) something you concoct on your own!
Every golfer should learn how to hook/draw and slice/fade on command for escape and trouble shots. Get out there and hit a big slinging hook and then start tempering that until you are drawing the ball comfortably.
My point is, go dig the answers up out of the dirt, then take your new swing to the launch monitor to CONFIRM that you are on the right track!
Where are you in Texas CRW? Get your butt over to Humble and I'll not leave the range until you've got it!
-CRW-
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Getting out in front of the ball happens a lot as well (especially when I overswing), but that creates an even bigger push or push-fade than I'm seeing occasionally. The open face was picked up on video. I plan to get a copy of the video this evening and will try to post it and still shots of the positions I'm talking about.
I think it's weird that on the back swing when the shaft is parallel to the ground the face is square or slightly closed and at the top of the swing it's square to slightly closed, but in that same position on the way down it's open. But I understand that there is a lot less force on the club face going back compared to coming down in the swing.
-CRW-
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That's the plan, and why I posted this. I knew a lot of BS would be spewed especially since I'm a self described 31 handicap (oh the humanity). I knew a few people would have some good things to discuss and I'd mine the thread for gems to take with me to the range. The stronger grip did show positive results with the woods (even hooks), but screwed up my irons. Maybe for now, on the course, I'll need a stronger grip for the woods and a neutral grip for the irons. Ultimately I'd like to be able to do the same thing with all my clubs and get close to the desired results - maybe that's not possible for me, but I want to try. Again, I guess the question is how long does one try before it becomes unreasonable? I don't know. I hear it takes a life time for golfers to get "good" at golf. So it's hard for me to make adjustments that may be bandaids after only playing for a year and a half.
Also, I'm in Humble. And a member at Kingwood CC. You're not Gene are you?
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Haha - I hope you're not talking about Gene Haddock! Nope, I'm Pat O'Hara and I am at Atascocita. If you are ever up at the crack of dawn, Fred Lange Sr. plays at Kingwood every morning; I've known the Lange's for > 30 years and they are just as good as family to me.
We need to play together bud!
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Was that really done? I think people were quite helpful or tried to be quite helpful throughout this thread.
Tadashi70
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If you want, try to throw the toe of the driver at the ball when the club is parallel on the down swing. Don't forget to keep the upper body rotating through the zone. I don't often advise bringing this much right hand into play but it sounds like it will help.
-CRW-
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I'm specifically talking about the "well your a 31 handicap" comments. I believe some of those comments would have been different if I posted this thread with a 15 handicap listed, and even different if I had a 5 handicap listed. But I'm a realist. And as I said, there were some gems to mine in this thread to take with me to the range, so I'm appreciative for all the positive comments.
I just think playing forward tees with a 3 iron to drop my cap down to a 15 is sort of artificially lowering it. Maybe I'm the minority or even wrong in this line of thought (I've said that before). It's not ego, it's just a strong desire to get better or "good" at golf.
Please take this for what it is, feedback from a high handicapper :act-up:.
I recognize myself a lot in what you describe is happening to your wood play. Good iron play, but not so good with woods - this used to be me. I also used to have a strong grip, but no more - it was causing severe distance loss for me. I am a believer of going out to play freely and keep the swing thoughts for the range. The only thought I have now when on the course is pre-swing, making sure I have a good grip and good alignment.
Consistent alignment is what made a major difference to my driver and 3W play. Also please consider, that with woods I had a tendency to start moving my head forward to my leading foot when making impact. that for me was a no-no. I had to make sure my head stayed behind when making impact. I would still end up my swing with most weight on my leading foot, but the key was to keep my head a few inches behind the ball at impact with the driver, in order to hit the ball upward with the driver. As long as I do that, I have great results. I now have the driver and woods in my bag again, and I take them out to play with great confidence.
You can't have a split-second thought during your swing on the course. I try to only consciously have swing thoughts on the range.
So to re-cap, what works best for me is consistent alignment with the woods and head staying behind the ball at impact. The Ben Hogan drawing by Wakit I also find helpful, my left food is set up the same way for the Driver. Before, I would have not one single same alignment for the driver, but all over the place resulting in penalty shots and (severe) slices. My typical driver slice is when I am already moving towards the leading foot with my head, before impact.
FWIW. I hope that I did not confuse you, I am just saying what works for me now with Driver and also 3W. Best of luck with your game.
I recognize myself a lot in what you describe is happening to your wood play. Good iron play, but not so good with woods - this used to be me. I also used to have a strong grip, but no more - it was causing severe distance loss for me. I am a believer of going out to play freely and keep the swing thoughts for the range. The only thought I have now when on the course is pre-swing, making sure I have a good grip and good alignment.
Consistent alignment is what made a major difference to my driver and 3W play. Also please consider, that with woods I had a tendency to start moving my head forward to my leading foot when making impact. that for me was a no-no. I had to make sure my head stayed behind when making impact. I would still end up my swing with most weight on my leading foot, but the key was to keep my head a few inches behind the ball at impact with the driver, in order to hit the ball upward with the driver. As long as I do that, I have great results. I now have the driver and woods in my bag again, and I take them out to play with great confidence.
You can't have a split-second thought during your swing on the course. I try to only consciously have swing thoughts on the range.
So to re-cap, what works best for me is consistent alignment with the woods and head staying behind the ball at impact. The Ben Hogan drawing by Wakit I also find helpful, my left food is set up the same way for the Driver. Before, I would have not one single same alignment for the driver, but all over the place resulting in penalty shots and (severe) slices. My typical driver slice is when I am already moving towards the leading foot with my head, before impact.
FWIW. I hope that I did not confuse you, I am just saying what works for me now with Driver and also 3W. Best of luck with your game.
rollin
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Rollin quote- You know, not to sound mean to the OP in any way and is not my intent at all but we (most all players) cant do everything we want...
CRW response- I don't buy that. I currently don't have any physical limitations to keep me from doing what I need to do to create the shot I want. The limitations I have a mental. I can work to train my brain to do what I want. The question is how long will it take? 5 years, 10 years, 20 years (and somewhere in that time will I take on physical limitations that will keep me from doing what I want either because of aging or injury).
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I would disagree CRW and here is why imo. We all imo have physical limitations. That is not to be confused with actual physical injuries. All our bodies are very different. Our natural gate/s to everything we do is unique to each individual. Different sizes, shapes, bone structure, etc is all unique to each of us. We all balance, and move slightly different with every part of our bodies. That is also why there are so many different looking swings out there. It all has to do with limitations or perhaps we can better call it our own individual build or physical make up. But either way its still imo limitations. Any of those individual limitations are going to either be beneficial or detrimental towards whatever physical tasks we try to do. It just depends wjhether or not they are better in sync for the given task
In addition to what I just said I have a theory about it all as it ties to golf. I'll probably get laughed at for this but I don't care, here goes. I think ive brought this up once before and is abit dissecting but In a way its really not too much different than dissecting shot numbers.
Just like any other physical task golf requires certain physical movements. No matter how different and individually we all move and swing our clubs there is but one common thing that must take place for everyone. Everyone must have everything they do during the swing all come together for only one split fraction of the swing which is at the point of contact. In the end (as the physics dictates) its how we strike the ball only at that split second which gives the result regardless what we did anywhere else to get to that point. the ball just doesn't care how pretty it was. This is why there are many crazy unique swings out there that still work very well and even at the pro level too. Because all that really matters is only what takes place at the single point of contact.
With that said, when ones individual gates, or build, happens to be better suited or in sync for what is required at point of contact to strike golf balls well and on a consistent basis (regardless how they got there) then the physical task of doing that is easier for that person. Conversely when ones physical make up does not more easily allow for their movements to be better in sync with what is required at point of contact than that person must always battle. The further away (or less in sync) from the ball striking requirement their natural build is, the more they will battle with trying to get it done. They then will always be battling against their own individual limitations in order to try to maintain what is required at point of contact. That is all imo "physical limitations" and they can either benefit some while be detrimental to others. Pick a different task besides golf and perhaps things flip flop where as the other person now can better and more consistently do it while the other struggles or is forced to battle more of his own limitation for doing this other task. Physical limitations, whether you agree or not with all I have said is something that we all have one way or another.
CRW response- I don't buy that. I currently don't have any physical limitations to keep me from doing what I need to do to create the shot I want. The limitations I have a mental. I can work to train my brain to do what I want. The question is how long will it take? 5 years, 10 years, 20 years (and somewhere in that time will I take on physical limitations that will keep me from doing what I want either because of aging or injury).
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I would disagree CRW and here is why imo. We all imo have physical limitations. That is not to be confused with actual physical injuries. All our bodies are very different. Our natural gate/s to everything we do is unique to each individual. Different sizes, shapes, bone structure, etc is all unique to each of us. We all balance, and move slightly different with every part of our bodies. That is also why there are so many different looking swings out there. It all has to do with limitations or perhaps we can better call it our own individual build or physical make up. But either way its still imo limitations. Any of those individual limitations are going to either be beneficial or detrimental towards whatever physical tasks we try to do. It just depends wjhether or not they are better in sync for the given task
In addition to what I just said I have a theory about it all as it ties to golf. I'll probably get laughed at for this but I don't care, here goes. I think ive brought this up once before and is abit dissecting but In a way its really not too much different than dissecting shot numbers.
Just like any other physical task golf requires certain physical movements. No matter how different and individually we all move and swing our clubs there is but one common thing that must take place for everyone. Everyone must have everything they do during the swing all come together for only one split fraction of the swing which is at the point of contact. In the end (as the physics dictates) its how we strike the ball only at that split second which gives the result regardless what we did anywhere else to get to that point. the ball just doesn't care how pretty it was. This is why there are many crazy unique swings out there that still work very well and even at the pro level too. Because all that really matters is only what takes place at the single point of contact.
With that said, when ones individual gates, or build, happens to be better suited or in sync for what is required at point of contact to strike golf balls well and on a consistent basis (regardless how they got there) then the physical task of doing that is easier for that person. Conversely when ones physical make up does not more easily allow for their movements to be better in sync with what is required at point of contact than that person must always battle. The further away (or less in sync) from the ball striking requirement their natural build is, the more they will battle with trying to get it done. They then will always be battling against their own individual limitations in order to try to maintain what is required at point of contact. That is all imo "physical limitations" and they can either benefit some while be detrimental to others. Pick a different task besides golf and perhaps things flip flop where as the other person now can better and more consistently do it while the other struggles or is forced to battle more of his own limitation for doing this other task. Physical limitations, whether you agree or not with all I have said is something that we all have one way or another.
-CRW-
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I think you can make the body do more than you are giving it credit for, despite build or age or personal "physical limitations" (not withstanding injuries or disabilities). Most of what you are talking about is mental, the rest can be trained through various methods (stretching for example).
JFlores
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Really interesting reading folks thoughts, I think you got the dedication to get where you want to be in your golf goals. I want to point out something though, take it for what you want obviously we played a round so you know my game isn't that much better, but if your losing 6-8 balls off the tee that equates to 12-16 strokes, if all else is "perfect" then mid 80s would be attainable score. But if your shooting 105+ that still means your losing 20+ strokes in other aspects of your game, maybe short game or iron games need to be tighten up. Anyways see ya around!
rollin
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- 15.7
Sure, one can learn and teach the body to do some things but not only will that vary by individual but its all still very different for each one. Those photos and all the people who can do what they do are all going to do it slightly differently. They are all going to move into such positions in a slightly different way even if it looks similar. They would have to because their bodies are all different. Their bone lengths between joints are at different lengths and also slightly different angles. Muscles, tendons, everything about you is unique only to you. Just the simple way in which one may raise his arm to shake hands will be done slightly different for everyone. Some elbows will be in, others out, hands , turned in , or up , or out, all slight differences. It may be very different or even be very small minute differences but hitting the golf ball is about very small minute differences.
I think when I say "limited" it sounds somewhat scary . No matter what we can teach our bodies to do we are going to all be limited in the way nature allows us to go about it. If we both stand on one leg, we are both going to be limited in how we raise our leg and then balance on the other. No matter how much we train for it and even make small changes to do it better (such as a gymnast might) we are still going to do it differently. We are all going to be limited to what nature gave us. not to mention the added weight of junk food we often give ourselves LOL
. But kidding aside, I feel some people's limitations (or perhaps I should just say natural movements) are more consistent for doing certain tasks over others on a more consistent basis. Some one who isn't is going to have to battle a little harder to do that same task especially when its a task that consists of only a very small percentage of allowed error. Imo limitations are real for all of us because its how nature built us individually. Not meant to be taken as a bad thing. And doesn't mean you will not straighten out your game, I really hope you do and working at it as hard as you are sI hope will lead you there. But its always going to at least be harder for some than others due to "my" so called limitations that we all have.
-CRW-
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I never said the rest of my game was perfect. In fact I said the other parts weren't helping, but weren't killing my score either. I have posted this before, but I have a thorough understanding of where I'm failing on the course. Irons account for 5-7 strokes over par on average from just poor swings, and short game accounts for up to 15 strokes over par. Of the short game, 3-5 strokes on average over par are from putting and the remainder is from short game. However, some of those short game shots occur due to an error or miscalculation with my irons (short, long, left, or right of the green). Both play a part as obvious from my lack of GIR's and from my horrendous scrambling percentage (3% across all of my recorded rounds).
the only way irons would account for strokes over par would be if you hit them in the water or ob. otherwise, the inability to get up-and-down would be why you're over par. my scrambling % is atrocious, and hitting greens = good scoring for me (and pretty much everyone else), but i put more emphasis on my improving my short game than hitting more greens. of the last 14 rounds i've tracked stats, i hit 40% of my greens. tour average was 64% in 2014. so of 18 greens, i hit 7 on average, and the best players in the world hit 11. they, however, averaged 57% in scrambling, while i am at a measly 18%. they make par 4 out of 7 times, but i only make it 2 out of 11 times. that's where i'm throwing away strokes, and shoring this up could help you as well.
-CRW-
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Scrambling percentage through improving my short game was the next piece I intend to work on. But since the woods/tee game is killing me the most, so it's the current priority (and as JB said, it has been for a long time now).