The Classroom - What is Toe Hang?

Very good, informative post, and a great introduction to the Classroom series.

I would imagine it varies among players, but does the amount of toe hand impact strike position on the face? That is, would toe hang changes alter whether a player is likely to hit it out of the toe or heel, possibly producing a more predictable miss?

Also, does the amount of toe hang change the lie angle, as a general rule? I know Odyssey's eye-fit system used the distance away from the ball a player aligns his eye to correspond to toe hang, but would that also affect whether a putter tends to need a more upright or flatter lie angle, or is that all personal preference?
 
So if I had an issue with the toe coming open at contact and not squaring up, would I want to experiment with less toe hang (lighter toe) or more toe hang to help with the release?

I believe you would want more hang, if I read everything correctly.
 
This was sort of what I was getting at. If you have issues closing the face you would want less toe hang and more face balance.
So if I had an issue with the toe coming open at contact and not squaring up, would I want to experiment with less toe hang (lighter toe) or more toe hang to help with the release?
 
Very cool. I like this format and look forward to future articles. Nice job JMan. I enjoyed the read.
 
This was sort of what I was getting at. If you have issues closing the face you would want less toe hang and more face balance.

That's what I was thinking in my head, less weight or more center balance would be less weight out on the toe thus allowing it to possibly release a bit easier without the weight behind it.
 
I love not only the educational piece of this, but also the conversation that follows. Some folks are basically 'plug and play' with whatever is handed to them, and some genuinely need the support of various design elements to be effective, but it's nice to get a firm idea of what exactly is intended with the various builds.

Thanks for the time put into this James!
 
This was an excellent read. I really enjoyed it. Definitely will be keeping up with the classroom.

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I love not only the educational piece of this, but also the conversation that follows. Some folks are basically 'plug and play' with whatever is handed to them, and some genuinely need the support of various design elements to be effective, but it's nice to get a firm idea of what exactly is intended with the various builds.

Thanks for the time put into this James!

I wonder what the percentage of people know what would work best for their stroke. If people are buying based on comfort instead of what works they'll never be good putters. As important as putting is, I would think people would want that dialed in
 
I wonder what the percentage of people know what would work best for their stroke. If people are buying based on comfort instead of what works they'll never be good putters. As important as putting is, I would think people would want that dialed in

I bet it's low-low-low. Not unlike them running to big box and buying a Newport Scotty or white TaylorMade driver, I would be willing to bet for most, they genuinely don't care to be fit.
 
I bet it's low-low-low. Not unlike them running to big box and buying a Newport Scotty or white TaylorMade driver, I would be willing to bet for most, they genuinely don't care to be fit.

I agree with you. They might know face balanced, but when it comes to the actuall details behind toe hang and how it could effect fitting, that number has to be low.
 
I bet it's low-low-low. Not unlike them running to big box and buying a Newport Scotty or white TaylorMade driver, I would be willing to bet for most, they genuinely don't care to be fit.

You are probably right. But that's golf, cart before the really rare expensive horse.
 
I wonder what the percentage of people know what would work best for their stroke. If people are buying based on comfort instead of what works they'll never be good putters. As important as putting is, I would think people would want that dialed in

About the same percentage as that take lessons, get properly fit, etc.
Think of it this way. There are half a million+ THP Readers and the percentage is tiny.
 
About the same percentage as that take lessons, get properly fit, etc.
Think of it this way. There are half a million+ THP Readers and the percentage is tiny.

Wow, that blows my mind.
 
I bet it's low-low-low. Not unlike them running to big box and buying a Newport Scotty or white TaylorMade driver, I would be willing to bet for most, they genuinely don't care to be fit.

I would change that to ", they don't know the benefits of getting fit for a putter." Don't care assumes they know and make a choice in spite of knowledge. I know my general knowledge has increase tremendously from THP. Most of my golf buddies who have played regularly for years, have very little knowledge of fitting and gear.
 
Well thanks to THP, I'm in the market for a new putter and I WILL DEFINITELY get a proper fitting for a putter before I buy.


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Wow, that blows my mind.

Lets look at it like this. And I dont want to single anybody out, but in this case, it will make sense as you are a heck of a player and teacher.

You are playing a driver you were not fit for. Now granted you did that based on THP Forum testing a last year and liked it so stuck with it, but it shows that people of all shapes and sizes go with what they like and what they know rather than what might work.

And FWIW, I see nothing wrong with that, as people should play what they like.
 
i've done fittings for every club in my bag. never once when i was getting fit for full swing clubs did i hear, "well, swinging the driver is such a personal thing. it's all about feel and what fits your eye." but that's the mantra going into all things putter. the two putters i was fit into are collecting dust. the putter i've had the most success with (which isn't much) is a putter i bought from a thp'er on a whim.

jb has mentioned how much an average player's swing varies from one swing to the next as far as spin, launch and contact point, so is a fitting based on maximizing these numbers really that reliable? why is putting any different? we miss the sweet spot of the putter often. our path varies. our tempo varies. why not just find something that fits your eye and go with it?
 
Very well written and explained Jman!!
 
In terms of putter fitting:

I do not think I am much different than a lot of common folks ... I went to GolfSmith, plunked down the $300+ on a Scotty and excepted it to sink the putt for me ... it was a relatively high $ putter and a good brand name, so why not?

The truth was, it was not better than the $99 putter I had ... I honestly had not a clue. Short story long, I ended up contacting a fitter that fitted Edel ... that fitting has made all the difference for me. I am a believer!

I am not a knowledgable guy on golf technology so I respect the fitters out there, and will not just walk in and buy a club ever again without working with a fitter.
 
c.a.elecric that's an interesting take. I probably adapt to gear more than there is gear that "best" works for me. But I think that will change as I keep putting the work develop more consistency. At least this is what I hope will happen. I have purchased 3 putters, each on a whim. I assume I have a more straight back stroke (less arc) but don't really know. I don't even know what would be an optimal length putter for me. I would benefit significantly from putting lessons -- never had one of any kind -- and at some point a putter fitting seems like a very good idea. But over time it will be interesting to see what sticks in the bag. Maybe adapting to clubs that I like will always be my norm.
 
I wonder what the percentage of people know what would work best for their stroke. If people are buying based on comfort instead of what works they'll never be good putters. As important as putting is, I would think people would want that dialed in

I wonder how far one would say putter fitting is from, say, driver fitting, in terms of the number of locations. I mean, in Tucson there's 5 places I can think of off the top of my head that have launch monitors, and many places offer custom fitting for clubs. While I know there are a huge majority of people who buy new gear off the rack without ever getting fit, saying a new driver is bad when you didn't test it against your current driver, or verify it produced good numbers, is really something we can say is a poor decision on the part of the consumer, rather than an ignorant one based on lack of useful information.

Putter fitting, at anything close to that very scientific level, is still something that not a lot of people can put their hands on. There are plenty of states without a SAM putting lab, and in some cases they're limited only to exclusive clubs or universities. If you went to a local big-box store and asked about custom fitting a putter, the best you can hope for is something like the Odyssey eye-fit board, and a wrist to floor measurement. You might get someone who knows what they're doing look at your stroke and make suggestions. But you're simply not going to get a data-driven assessment of what will work for you on par with a launch monitor based club fitting.

I think that's a big part of the problem; even people who know about putter fitting and want it might not have access to it.
 
jb has mentioned how much an average player's swing varies from one swing to the next as far as spin, launch and contact point, so is a fitting based on maximizing these numbers really that reliable? why is putting any different? we miss the sweet spot of the putter often. our path varies. our tempo varies. why not just find something that fits your eye and go with it?

Because just like anything else, you can minimize the ill effects of those issues with a properly fit putter.
I believe more fittings should be like that with full swing as well instead of watching people constantly chase a lower spin number that is murdering their scores for when they miss.
 
maybe i would be a believer in putter fittings if i saw the results work for me. maybe i'm just not destined to be a very good putter, so there's only so much that can be done when the real issue is 6" between my ears. freddie once told me something to the effect of, "you're problem isn't your stroke, your problem is you don't know how to putt." there's no putter fitting in the world that can cure that lol
 
maybe i would be a believer in putter fittings if i saw the results work for me. maybe i'm just not destined to be a very good putter, so there's only so much that can be done when the real issue is 6" between my ears. freddie once told me something to the effect of, "you're problem isn't your stroke, your problem is you don't know how to putt." there's no putter fitting in the world that can cure that lol

For what it's worth I disagree with him a little bit. Putting is as much about stroke and green reading as anything else.

Odds are like most when you go to the range you practice your swing and work on it to make it better and when you go to the putting green you just putt.
 
I think that's a big part of the problem; even people who know about putter fitting and want it might not have access to it.

Access is certainly an issue here, but that's hardly surprising for Montana. My one and only visit so far to a golf retailer (Golfsmith) was last year on a visit to Colorado. I saw a sign in their putter area that said "putter fitting" and asked a salesman about it. He told me to check out a few putters and see what I liked. Apparently that was it. I remember thinking "that wasn't very helpful." Locally I have asked 2 PGA pros at local courses about putter fitting. In each case the answer was to putt with a few and see what I liked.

Even reading this thread and trying to comprehend what this might mean for me, I have no idea where I would go to get a real putter fitting.
 
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