Trying to Create Lag?

I think lag is created by all that came before. Correct stance, balance, grip, tempo(your tempo), swing plane, completing the back swing, proper weight shift(to your tempo, body build), staying on plane at the down swing. If you do all this you can almost wait on the shot and deliver the blow at the correct time. In my opinion any flaws in the above will just make you compensate for these flaws by making moves that waste energy& result in off line shots. Even the best players in the world only play their best a few months out of the year or in some cases their careers. How often do we say what ever happened to...... This shows us just how hard this game really is.
 
The concept of trying to "hold the lag" has screwed up more golfers more it has helped. Lag happens when the sequencing of the movements of the entire body in the downswing is in the right order.
 
One thing that has helped me is exaggerating the vertical wrist angle created when you take your grip and then lower it to the ball. This accomplishes two things it forces the swing to start with your shoulders instead of the arms, wrists or hands and it helps you hold this angle (lag) until you are ready to hit the ball. If you pair this with trying to stay connected (arms stay with shoulders and chest) it seems as if you are hitting with very little effort but results are there. I will say unless you are very flexible it will shorten your swing or at least it feels that way.

Most golfers seem to think the wrist hinge is from side to side (results in a flip with the hands at the bottom of the swing) when it is really up and down. Thinking of it this way helps me, but this could be because I tend to flip.
 
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My previous instructor felt that "holding the lag" was the number one thing you could do in a swing - next was swinging in to out. I ended my few lesson series with him with the worst set of shanks I've ever had. My new instructor is working on sequencing with the expectation that lag will come with that. So far I've been making much more consistent contact.
 
Right from when I started playing a few years ago, everything I read and watched said the only real way to create lag was to have a solid, well sequenced swing.

So that's what I've worked on, and I've never thought about forcing lag. I don't have a good, ingrained swing yet by any means, but I've noticed the better I get about staying centered and shifting my weight properly, the better my contact is.
 
Wish I had a little to hold.

Bad sequencing and too-long backswing kill my chances 9/10 times.
 
For me, when you think about lag all sorts of bad things come into play. To me, lag is simply a byproduct of a couple of things.

1) a good bend of the right elbow(for righties) that is maintained as long as possible. 2) relaxed wrist that will cock even more on the down swing due to the weight of the club if you dont force it.

Those are the only two things I think about when it feels my lag is suffering slightly. Keep it simple
 
I think forward shaft lean helps create more lag...however, working on more forward shaft lean in itself can mess up your swing.
But in my personal experience, creating more shaft lean definitely helped to stop me from casting. It took a couple of days to get used to it though.
 
When thinking about creating lag, I think of Paul Azinger's special on golf channel, which he pretty much said you wouldn't slap someone's hand while creating an angle to have lag to slap with speed and force, you simply do it .

With that said, you need to create proper sequence to start from the ground up with your arms and wrists being the last part initiated to have the sequence. In other words, a proper body and shoulder turn will create lag in your arms, you can't artificially create it and hope to have consistancy.

Someone who has too much lag? Phil, he is extremely narrow through the back swing, he casts (or whips) really hard to catch up to the ball, works most of the time and it's amazing, but when it doesn't it's hard to watch.
 
I agree with all the posts about trying to "hold" lag. If you try and hold that position it will actually slow your swing down and lead to all sorts of bad things in your swing. I went through a period trying to hold the lag and it was a disaster scene. Eric Jones, PGA, a long drive champion, has a video/blog out there that talks about "carrying" the lag vice holding the lag and it makes sense. He demonstrates trying to hold a bucket of range balls on the end of the club in the "lag" position and how hard that is then talks about carrying the lag with the shoulders. It is very good and the light came on for me for sure. It shouldn't be a conscious thing, it's a sequence of movements done in the right order.
 
Tried this about 5 seasons ago and it was a disaster . Ball was flying all over and contact was just as bad. I do better doing the opposite, I feel like I throw or hit from the top when I'm playing my absolute best . Personally , I think approaching the swing with no lag would be more consistent than a guy who was all lag and had the club angled way back. I can see the speed benefit in Learning to have a proper lag swing . But just looking at it from a open mind point of view , the lag would require massive manipulation / body flexibility to be effective . Throw it from the top ( getting as wide as possible on downswing) gives me the most power and consistency which is completely against most modern golf teaching. But is easy to maintain and works good for me
 
When thinking about creating lag, I think of Paul Azinger's special on golf channel, which he pretty much said you wouldn't slap someone's hand while creating an angle to have lag to slap with speed and force, you simply do it .

With that said, you need to create proper sequence to start from the ground up with your arms and wrists being the last part initiated to have the sequence. In other words, a proper body and shoulder turn will create lag in your arms, you can't artificially create it and hope to have consistancy.

Someone who has too much lag? Phil, he is extremely narrow through the back swing, he casts (or whips) really hard to catch up to the ball, works most of the time and it's amazing, but when it doesn't it's hard to watch.

I would add Sergio to the laggy list also. Which IMO leads to his streakyness.
 
Sergio is one of the most steep-through-impact guy, he takes divots like he's digging for gold. Distance control is sacrificed when you have all that shaft lean and low trajectory.
 
This is a great video by Bradley Hughes (production value is low but he gets the message across)


 
There's a fine line between releasing the club and flipping, that's for sure
There really isnt. Flipping occurs when you're out of sequence and out in front of the ball. The club trails and you have flip to avoid the block.

The release is a natural occur ace when the swing is in sequence behind the ball.
It's not so much about not casting, its more about casting at the right time/in the right sequence.
There should be no cast, only release. And cast only occurs at the top of the swing. If the down swing starts are the angle is maintained, there is no cast.

I think forward shaft lean helps create more lag...however, working on more forward shaft lean in itself can mess up your swing.
But in my personal experience, creating more shaft lean definitely helped to stop me from casting. It took a couple of days to get used to it though.
Forward shaft lean was not the reason you stop casting. What happen at the bottom of the swing is not presetting a cast.

I agree with all the posts about trying to "hold" lag. If you try and hold that position it will actually slow your swing down and lead to all sorts of bad things in your swing. I went through a period trying to hold the lag and it was a disaster scene. Eric Jones, PGA, a long drive champion, has a video/blog out there that talks about "carrying" the lag vice holding the lag and it makes sense. He demonstrates trying to hold a bucket of range balls on the end of the club in the "lag" position and how hard that is then talks about carrying the lag with the shoulders. It is very good and the light came on for me for sure. It shouldn't be a conscious thing, it's a sequence of movements done in the right order.
Hold lag don't slow down swing speed. It actually increases it if done correctly. If you have rotated the hips out of the way abs have everything moving in the right direction you can create some serious speed with a prolonged lag.
Sergio is one of the most steep-through-impact guy, he takes divots like he's digging for gold. Distance control is sacrificed when you have all that shaft lean and low trajectory.
Sergio really isn't steep..he has a flatter angle into the ball as most lagers do. His divot are due to how low he keeps his hands through impact. This helps with his distance control.
 
Fupy if what to create more lag. Pull on the grip handle until it reaches that right hip and then throw the toe of the club left. Provided your hips have cleared and you are working behind the ball, you will hit it farther, straighter and more accurate than you are now.

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Reading through this thread has shown me that there is a lot of inaccurate info being shared. Or incomplete information. I often wonder where people get their info or they understand the entire concept.
 
Reading through this thread has shown me that there is a lot of inaccurate info being shared. Or incomplete information. I often wonder where people get their info or they understand the entire concept.[/QUOTE]


Good post. I think a lot of people with just minimal hand eye coordination can make any swing work really . But if you want to really get better , seek out the best you can and just work your tail off . Only trust that one source and block out the rest
 
then throw the toe of the club left
Panda, can you elaborate on this a little more? I struggle with an open face at impact and I think this is the feeling I'm missing.
 
Good post. I think a lot of people with just minimal hand eye coordination can make any swing work really . But if you want to really get better , seek out the best you can and just work your tail off . Only trust that one source and block out the rest
No doubt. I'm going to see if I can get a couple videos uploaded to YouTube so I can share. I did a swing analysis at GolfTEC a month ago, and had a lesson last night so I've got right at a month of weekly lessons and just about daily practice. The difference is night and day, but the big thing is that for a month I've tried to keep my "beginner's mind", trusting that what my coach is telling me to do is the right thing to do. I can tell you, it has been a month of swing motions that feel all kinds of weird, but the more I groove them the more natural they feel.
 
Lag will inherently create more natural power in your swing because the club head is behind your hands and you are essentially whipping the head through the impact zone. You're also more likely to strike down on the ball as opposed to casting and hitting up. With more lag you're able to accelerate the club through the impact zone as the club head is trying to catch up with your hands.

A good way to picture the benefits of lag is to look at the difference of hitting something with a stick with a locked wrist and doing the same with a hinged wrist. If you swing a stick with a locked wrist, the stick will only go as fast as your arms and shoulders are moving. Now, if you hinge your wrist and allow it to release at some point, the stick will accelerate because the business end of the stick wants to be at same point as the end you're gripping.

I didn't start messing with lag until about 15 months ago. Initially it led to a ton of problems. I had the fat, thin, pushes, snap hooks, etc. All of it had to do with learning how to control my release and trusting what I was doing. Mentally, it's very tough to convince your body that everything is going to be "right" at impact and you have to train yourself to ingrain that muscle memory, and "trust it". I spent countless hours hitting awful shots to generate lag. What really caused me fits was trying to "hold" the lag to impact. When most people hear that term they assume that you need to keep your wrists tight to do so, and the exact opposite is true. The looser your wrists are the more lag you're going to generate because the club head his heavier and naturally lags behind the butt. It then comes down to the release.

The best drill I've found for lagging and controlling release is to hold a club out in front of me and swing around my body and keep my wrists and hands as loose as possible. When I swing back the club will get to the "top" of the swing arc and my wrists will set. I then swing back the other direction, still keeping the wrists loose, and let the wrists, hands and club head naturally release as I reach the center of my body.
 
interesting thread. After reading it and viewing the vid and even digging into a couple other reads on lag, I think it really comes down imo to a basic of timing, along with tempo, and stored energy release all coming together at precise place (POI) point of contact. More head speed and with more power. But there is one huge point imo in that Bradley vid where its mentioned to "Play within yourself" . its one thing to be able to store energy with lag but its another to release it at the exact right time imo. Its also imo not so easy to store anything without then the possibility of throwing off the tempo. More head speed with more energy at the right timing is great so long as one can handle it by still being in good control of everything. This is where I feel "play within oneself" is of great importance as mentioned in the vid. I also think it relates to "adamw238" post above.

An instructor (not long ago) had my head speed up about 10mph higher and into the 112 to 115 range. It was great I was able to stay fluid enough to get that high but on the other hand I couldn't do anything productive with it. I had no control and was outside my comfort zone. It was going to require a ton of practice before it would even get decent enough to even begin to take it to the golf course. The timing of everything would never be quite correct enough for a controllable worthwhile swing with good ball flight results so after several sessions (couple with him and many without him) I went back to the 101 to 106 range. That was (as prior) much more "within myself" and where my timing of everything is better maintained or controllable (relatively speaking). I still have to work at release and timing for better power at those speeds and is already (as always been) an on going work in progress. In fact (due to the experience) it through my driver out of whack for much of last season even after throttling it back down but thats another topic lol. But raising evrything higher just makes it all much more difficult. It become too far "outside myself". Perhaps if I had learned this many years ago and/or nothing else but a ton of time to practice and play or was blessed with better natural ability to obtain it faster I would then be able to maximize the power, release, and speed created by it and still maintain control and it would then become "within myself" to do. But for now and for what I have I will just do the best I can to perfect things while staying "within myself". If that ever becomes 100% efficient, well then who knows, maybe then the "within myself" bar would then get raised a bit.
 
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I went to the range today and worked on a 'Pelvic Punch' drill for lag.

It's difficult to do initially, but a fun challenge at the same time.
 
I look more like Patrick Reed at impact than the guy who seems to create the most lag, Buba Watson. I can create lag but my hips are not fast enough any more to get them around quick enough to get them out in front of my shoulders.

In some ways I think its better as you don't snap and twist your back like Tiger does.
 
Panda, can you elaborate on this a little more? I struggle with an open face at impact and I think this is the feeling I'm missing.
There are a couplr ways to hit a sure fire hook. 1. Swing left and hold the hips 2. Come over the top 3. Fail to make a deep enough turna way from the ball

all three of these have one thing in common. The toe of the club is turning or pulling left. If you swing down the line and release the angle at your hip to right thigh while troughs gather toe left. You will square the face and impact side axis draw spin on the ball.

Lets say you are a caster of the club (not recommended) and you rotate through the ball the way you should. While throwing the toe, you will hit effortless peas down the right side of the fairway that end up right center. It's the art of trying to hit a hook but squaring up properly.
 
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