Products That Are DOA

You have to add Callaway to that list of wedges. They are now #2 in sales passing Cleveland around the time the MD3 was released.
You are correct though, outside of those 3, not a lot seems to be in bags.

How long do you think big gains in market share take to overturn public opinion? What i mean is, Cleveland and Titleist have seemed to own the marketshare since I was in highschool (12 years ago), and therefore there seems to be a mystique that they produce the best wedges (whether true or not). Most bags I come across seem to have one of these two brands in them. How long does it take Callaway (or any other brand) to gain that 'mystique'? Is this different for wedges compared to other clubs? One could argue TM had this with drivers in the R series... does the driver market turn over that much quicker than the wedge market?
 
How long do you think big gains in market share take to overturn public opinion? What i mean is, Cleveland and Titleist have seemed to own the marketshare since I was in highschool (12 years ago), and therefore there seems to be a mystique that they produce the best wedges (whether true or not). Most bags I come across seem to have one of these two brands in them. How long does it take Callaway (or any other brand) to gain that 'mystique'? Is this different for wedges compared to other clubs? One could argue TM had this with drivers in the R series... does the driver market turn over that much quicker than the wedge market?

I would argue that with the MD3 its happening because a) its the most complete wedge we have seen from Callaway yet (or at least since the OG XForged) and b) they are rolling with great releases and have everyone's utmost attention. Thats just my take though.
 
How long do you think big gains in market share take to overturn public opinion? What i mean is, Cleveland and Titleist have seemed to own the marketshare since I was in highschool (12 years ago), and therefore there seems to be a mystique that they produce the best wedges (whether true or not). Most bags I come across seem to have one of these two brands in them. How long does it take Callaway (or any other brand) to gain that 'mystique'? Is this different for wedges compared to other clubs? One could argue TM had this with drivers in the R series... does the driver market turn over that much quicker than the wedge market?

That is a million dollar question. No idea really.
I would say in my area, Callaway and Cleveland are the most dominant wedges in bags now, with Titleist shortly behind that. All 3 are close and I am sure next year with a new release Cleveland does well again with that product.

I go in 5 year cycles for a lot of things.
5 years ago, nobody really wanted to play a Callaway anything.
Now they are very popular and selling (arguably) better than any other brand out there in hard goods.
Right now, Cleveland is on a downward move (not a ton in wedges), but they have a new President so maybe they make their move and regain some sales.

All in all, none of the 3 brands are DOA in wedges, that is for sure.
 
I would argue that with the MD3 its happening because a) its the most complete wedge we have seen from Callaway yet (or at least since the OG XForged) and b) they are rolling with great releases and have everyone's utmost attention. Thats just my take though.

I can agree with you that it is happening, I guess if I phrased my question more correctly : How soon before Callaway is a household name for wedges? Have they already made it, and is the MD series as recognized as vokey or 588 to the average golfer?

Granted, I have a small sample size here. I only frequent a few courses in the area, and golf mostly with the same group of 10ish people. Jman, you get to travel and meet all sort of different golfers from different regions. Has this already happened? Is it in way more bags than I am seeing? Is the MD already up there with the vokey and 588 in terms of brand recognition?
 
Not really one brand specific, but i think the concept of square driver heads was DOA
But wasn't the square driver supposed to be the cure for slicers? The average weekend golfer that's the biggest problem so if it's a "guaranteed" fix, they'll buy them.

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I'm not that smart on the golf industries R&D side of things or the time associated with it but by the time that any golf product hits the market place isn't it on the downhill side already?

IMO most golf equipment spends more time in the developed and testing stages than it spends in the marketing and sales cycle. At best most golf equipment only has a 2 year cycle before something is replacing it. IMO they (the golf companies) are competing for our dollars so they do what they have to do, continued product introduction so in fact all golf equipment had started to die by the time it is released.
 
But wasn't the square driver supposed to be the cure for slicers? The average weekend golfer that's the biggest problem so if it's a "guaranteed" fix, they'll buy them.

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The square drivers had a lot of MOI and really did a great job eliminating side spin. The problem was that they sounded funny and looked odd. As much as amateur golfers like to claim that they will play "whatever lowers scores", it just isn't true.
 
I would argue that with the MD3 its happening because a) its the most complete wedge we have seen from Callaway yet (or at least since the OG XForged) and b) they are rolling with great releases and have everyone's utmost attention. Thats just my take though.

The difference in the MD2 Tour and the MD3 has been night and day for me. They absolutely got it right with this one.
 
I'm curious how all of Cobras stuff sells. Genius behind designing their stuff but it just seems to get zero traction year after year.

My guess is that it doesn't sell well in New England where I play. I rarely see anyone with new Cobra equipment. Anyone who has asked to hit my Bio Cell driver, is always amazed how easy it is to hit once they give it a shot.

I think a few things go into this. A lot of people have said to me "doesn't Rickie Fowler play Cobra?" - which they follow up with rolling their eyes. I honestly think this is a huge turnoff to many people. Not me, but I think this is part of it. Also, Cobra's tour presence is so small other than Fowler and Blixt, which = not as much TV exposure on Saturday's and Sunday's as other OEMs. Also Cobra's marketing and social media presence is greatly overshadowed by Callaway, Taylormade and others.
 
Unfortunately, nearly all Wilson clubs are DOA. I played Wilson Pi5 irons for 6 years followed by FG V2's. I have yet to ever see either of those irons in anyone else's bag.
 
I can agree with you that it is happening, I guess if I phrased my question more correctly : How soon before Callaway is a household name for wedges? Have they already made it, and is the MD series as recognized as vokey or 588 to the average golfer?

Granted, I have a small sample size here. I only frequent a few courses in the area, and golf mostly with the same group of 10ish people. Jman, you get to travel and meet all sort of different golfers from different regions. Has this already happened? Is it in way more bags than I am seeing? Is the MD already up there with the vokey and 588 in terms of brand recognition?
I generally play with 3 random people. I don't remember ever seeing a Mack Daddy wedge in any bag but mine when I was playing them. Lots of Cleveland, Vokey, and oddly PING around here (usually in a full bag of PINGs).

I see a bunch of set wedges too.
 
Unfortunately, nearly all Wilson clubs are DOA. I played Wilson Pi5 irons for 6 years followed by FG V2's. I have yet to ever see either of those irons in anyone else's bag.
According to Wilson Staff, they've been steadily - if slowly - growing their market share. I think this year will be a huge year for them, and they're actively working on getting their products into more stores. If they've been DOA, that's going to change.

If I looked at the bags of the people in my country club ... every company is DOA. These guys are old as dirt, and most of their gear is as well.
 
That is a million dollar question. No idea really.
I would say in my area, Callaway and Cleveland are the most dominant wedges in bags now, with Titleist shortly behind that. All 3 are close and I am sure next year with a new release Cleveland does well again with that product.

I go in 5 year cycles for a lot of things.
5 years ago, nobody really wanted to play a Callaway anything.
Now they are very popular and selling (arguably) better than any other brand out there in hard goods.
Right now, Cleveland is on a downward move (not a ton in wedges), but they have a new President so maybe they make their move and regain some sales.

All in all, none of the 3 brands are DOA in wedges, that is for sure.

Do you think a lot of it has to do with marketing? When you walk into a Golfsmith & I assume other golf stores....Callaway is front a center with their products. I think a lot of golfers just go with what the stores are pushing.

I find it interesting that Rickie Fowler is so popular but Cobra products will don't sell.
 
See I disagree with SCOR being DOA. On arrival, they were a pretty big hit because the concept made sense. They just recently went under so it's easy to think of them as DOA

I honestly don't think they were that big of a hit though. I think around THP and other golf aficionado places they sold, but outside of that I don't know that the majority of golfers have ever heard about them. From my own experiences (outside of THPers obviously), I've only met 1 person out of hundreds of people I've played with the past 2 years (length of time I've owned my wedges) that ever even heard of the brand. That's why I think they were DOA.
 
Do you think a lot of it has to do with marketing? When you walk into a Golfsmith & I assume other golf stores....Callaway is front a center with their products. I think a lot of golfers just go with what the stores are pushing.

I find it interesting that Rickie Fowler is so popular but Cobra products will don't sell.

I don't want to be too harsh on Fowler, because i think he has made a lot of strides in his game, but Fowler's popularity seems solely driven on style... I think PUMA gets the big bump there, I give Cobra kudos in trying to replicate this by leading the charge in multicolor, attention getting driver options... but at the end of the day it just doesn't seem to sell... Rickie moves clothes... not clubs
 
How long do you think big gains in market share take to overturn public opinion? What i mean is, Cleveland and Titleist have seemed to own the marketshare since I was in highschool (12 years ago), and therefore there seems to be a mystique that they produce the best wedges (whether true or not). Most bags I come across seem to have one of these two brands in them. How long does it take Callaway (or any other brand) to gain that 'mystique'? Is this different for wedges compared to other clubs? One could argue TM had this with drivers in the R series... does the driver market turn over that much quicker than the wedge market?

It's a great question. I would say it takes a while, maybe 2-3 years. Callaway only recently took over #2 spot in wedges so I would expect it would take at least one product cycle before that is recognized. Wedges have had the same two market leaders for a long time so that is a factor as well.

As JB stated, overall brand momentum matters also. People are taking Callaway seriously in a variety of categories so that makes it easier to break through.

Interesting discussion!


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I don't want to be too harsh on Fowler, because i think he has made a lot of strides in his game, but Fowler's popularity seems solely driven on style... I think PUMA gets the big bump there, I give Cobra kudos in trying to replicate this by leading the charge in multicolor, attention getting driver options... but at the end of the day it just doesn't seem to sell... Rickie moves clothes... not clubs
It'll be a shame if the KING line falls flat, every single one of those clubs that I've hit stacks up favorably against everything on the market.
 
Cobra gear doesn't sell. Kind of been that way for a while now.
 
I don't want to be too harsh on Fowler, because i think he has made a lot of strides in his game, but Fowler's popularity seems solely driven on style... I think PUMA gets the big bump there, I give Cobra kudos in trying to replicate this by leading the charge in multicolor, attention getting driver options... but at the end of the day it just doesn't seem to sell... Rickie moves clothes... not clubs

I completely agree.
 
Sadly, I'd have to say the Hogan brand. Love the looks of it and I actually liked the SCOR/V-Sole tech, but it seems like that launch was a swing and a miss by the brand.

As for the PSi/M1 opinion, I'm not sure I agree on this one. TM had a HUGE launch event for the M1 and PSi irons not long ago and the irons just launched in retail. I've seen a lot of social media activity around the M1 launch, in particular. I have to believe that will be one of the best selling drivers of 2015-16 so I don't know how it could fall into a discussion that it's already dead.

When the snow is gone I will be taking at look at the M-1 and maybe the PSI's. I have seen a few good reviews head to head with the M1 and it seems to fair well against the others. I see you are gaming a M1.. Did you get fit for it? I like the look of the crown. Seems like it would be easy to align. Have not laid hands on one yet.
 
Not sure if it's mentioned earlier in the thread, but the Callaway Edge set was pretty much DOA. Most likely overshadowed by the BB irons and a lack of marketing on that front.

As far as Cobra... 2 of my good friends both play Cobra irons and have zero intention of changing, they absolutely love them. My father has a slightly older set of S3s as well and while he can't play nearly as much as he used to due to shoulder injuries, he constantly says how great they are when he does play. And he's about as unflashy as you can get.


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Hogan Fort Worth Irons...They look very nice, and the loft customization is unique, but the marketing rollout plan is terribly flawed....you don't see them at Golf Retailers, so unfortunately these irons are doomed to failure...D.O.A.

:angel:


They are pretty.
 
where are these numbers from?

BB iron is a great product, just never seen it claimed as the #1 selling iron.

In Dnevs case the numbers are from either internal or golfdatatech. In my case they came from golfdatatech.
 
From my WITB signature...Driver-:cobra:BioCell+ (Black) set at 11 with
matrix%20shafts%2080x15.jpg
6Q3 Red Tie Stiff
Fairway/Hybrids-:cobra: BioCell (Blue) 3-4 Wood set at 15.5/2-3 Hybrid set at 19/3-4 Hybrid set at 22 all stock Stiff

I agree, very underrated clubs that just perform. I haven't found a hybrid released since the BioCells that performs as well, for me.

Yeah, they are good clubs that won't break the bank. I've used them for the last couple of years and they perform well. But I just invested in a fitting that will make my bag all Callaway now (save for the putter).
 
According to Wilson Staff, they've been steadily - if slowly - growing their market share. I think this year will be a huge year for them, and they're actively working on getting their products into more stores. If they've been DOA, that's going to change.

If I looked at the bags of the people in my country club ... every company is DOA. These guys are old as dirt, and most of their gear is as well.

Our country club has bags full of new Titleist, Taylormade, Ping, Cleveland and Mizuno The only person I've seen playing Wilson Staff irons in my 5+ years there is one of the assistant pro's who played on Tour for a few years.
 
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