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What miss is acceptable for a teaching pro standards

Chip

Chip

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Went into to hit some balls with an improptu lesson with my teaching pro.I hit about half a dozen shanks in a row while he observed me.According to him,the shank is almost a perfect shot.And on trackman-flightscope-camera video it gives good results.I found this odd but i trust his professional judgment.When you have lessons or seek online help,what miss is acceptable/and why?
 
Chip, when I first started teaching golf back in 1995 I used that phrase a good bit. Its not a true statement and a shank is a shank. I have seen you talk about your lessons with your teacher and I have hung back, But based on this last post, I do believe you being taken for a ride. The things you are sharing with us just do not add up and I not heard any of my fellow teaching pros ever take the route he taking with you.

There should never be an acceptable miss for a teach pro to let go. If you are shanking the ball, there are some serious flaws in the swing. Once you get the shanks its hard to get rid of them. You do what you will with my statement but I do not think this is the guy for you.
Chip said:
Went into to hit some balls with an improptu lesson with my teaching pro.I hit about half a dozen shanks in a row while he observed me.According to him,the shank is almost a perfect shot.And on trackman-flightscope-camera video it gives good results.I found this odd but i trust his professional judgment.When you have lessons or seek online help,what miss is acceptable/and why?
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I believe it is much more common for good players to shank a shot than it is for them to toe one.

For me, an acceptable miss while learning a new move is whatever coincides with the correction. For instance, I am working on staying taller, which means I may thin more shots than usual.
 
You should be working on the exact opposite but that is another thread. An acceptable miss with what you are working on would be a hook. It means you stayed down just forgot the lower body. A thin shot means you are not maintaining angels and this should not be acceptable.
blugold said:
I believe it is much more common for good players to shank a shot than it is for them to toe one.

For me, an acceptable miss while learning a new move is whatever coincides with the correction. For instance, I am working on staying taller, which means I may thin more shots than usual.
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Chip said:
Went into to hit some balls with an improptu lesson with my teaching pro.I hit about half a dozen shanks in a row while he observed me.According to him,the shank is almost a perfect shot.And on trackman-flightscope-camera video it gives good results.I found this odd but i trust his professional judgment.When you have lessons or seek online help,what miss is acceptable/and why?
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There was a time with my instructor when I had a miss left that he was okay with. My impression is/was it was a step in the overall progression. I suppose something similar is possible with you here, but I must say the things you've reported with your instructor have struck me as unconventional or different. Here's what I think I know: Freddie wouldn't call out another instructor lightly. For him to post what he posted is a fairly big deal.
 
when i was going through an overhaul, i wasn't having a ton of success but my instructor was encouraging me because the move was getting better, even if the results weren't there yet. chunks, thins, hooks, blocks, shanks. you name it. but eventually we grooved the move, and things got better. so it was acceptable for me to struggle because we were implementing some very different moves. if i never improved, that would have been unacceptable.

as much as a shank is almost a perfect shot, so is a fat shot, or a thin shot, or a toed shot. the margin of error between flushing a shot and hitting a terrible shot is minuscule. and what does "almost" mean?

i wish you all the best and i hope you and your current instructor or another instructor find the success you're looking for.
 
Why would a shank be considered an almost perfect shot?
 
arwin said:
Why would a shank be considered an almost perfect shot?
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Could be he liked the way the club was delivered but the result was not great.
 
arwin said:
Why would a shank be considered an almost perfect shot?
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The sweet spot on irons is close to the hozel not directly in the center of the club face.
 
In trying to overhaul a swing that had a lot wrong with it (OTT then holding the face open to not hook it off the planet) my instructor had me doing a few different drills. One comment I specifically recall was that at that time he would prefer to see me hit it fat vs the very thin shots I was hitting. Said long term that is not what we wanted, but it was a change to the other end of the spectrum of what I was doing.

He had a rationale that made sense as to why at that time that would be a preferable miss to what I was previously doing and explained it well.

If your instructor told you shanks were acceptable, I would definitely expect him to explain why it was and what progress it is from what you were doing before. If he didn't, and can't/won't then I would be looking for somebody new.
 
I'm just trying to get better and I thought lessons from a top teacher was the way to go.He said many high handicappers will hit a fat/than a thin/next a shank/than a slice with no consistency.Im thinking since I hit so many shanks in a row I was being consistent instead of hitting a million misses everywhere.Just doing my best here and I hope I can see you guys at an event someday and I can showcase everything I worked so hard on
 
So according to your pro, I hit an almost perfect shot through somebody's window once
 
arwin said:
Why would a shank be considered an almost perfect shot?
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The club face is square, the only factor that changed as the distance from the ball. So hence it was close to perfect.

It's a silly sentiment that I got away from early in my career. There are zero positives to take away from the shanks.
 
Tadashi70 said:
The club face is square, the only factor that changed as the distance from the ball. So hence it was close to perfect.

It's a silly sentiment that I got away from early in my career. There are zero positives to take away from the shanks.
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Wouldn't a shank or a hosel rocket be considered the same?
If it's a hosel rocket, can't that come from closing the club face too much at impact?
 
As someone who battled the shanks for over a year, Freddie's advice resonates with this one on me.
 
arwin said:
Wouldn't a shank or a hosel rocket be considered the same?
If it's a hosel rocket, can't that come from closing the club face too much at impact?
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I won't say your wrong but typically a shank or hosel rocket or chili pepper or chingala comes from hitting the ball off the inside of the hosel.
 
I agree with Freddie.

There are certain misses that are OK. My instructor is fine with a push for example. It means I swung from the inside but just didn't get the face closed. And that's a positive miss when we're trying to fix an OTT swing. However, a shank would not be an acceptable miss in any form or fashion.
 
No matter what happens.This is the only way i love to learn golf and think others should follow.In person lessons are the only way to go.I walk right in to see the pro and it is strictly me and only me he focuses on.This back and forth of swing this swing that on a golf forum isn't me nor will it ever be.I can't learn that way,nor do I even want to pursue it any further.If I fail to reach my goal by next fall than I will just seek another local instructor.Just seems like people are looking for a quick fix on these type of golf forums.For me i want the whole change and am willing to put in as much work as it takes to get there.That is what type of a guy I am
 
Chip said:
No matter what happens.This is the only way i love to learn golf and think others should follow.In person lessons are the only way to go.I walk right in to see the pro and it is strictly me and only me he focuses on.This back and forth of swing this swing that on a golf forum isn't me nor will it ever be.I can't learn that way,nor do I even want to pursue it any further.If I fail to reach my goal by next fall than I will just seek another local instructor.Just seems like people are looking for a quick fix on these type of golf forums.For me i want the whole change and am willing to put in as much work as it takes to get there.That is what type of a guy I am
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I'm not sure why you think you can't take that route or that we are trying to change your mind. I've said this since you started your lessons, best of luck. I've also suggested that you stick with him and that is why I didn't give you tips.

Everyone learns differently and that is the spice of life. But based on what you have shared, which might be your interpretation, has been very off and foreign. I loved one on one teaching and made some big changes in some pretty serious golf games.

THP has set up this forum to assist anyone and everyone that what to improve their game. I hope that you will take advantage of it and read through the many threads that may relate to your game. I've always felt that I can never stop learning so I soak up as much about the golf swing as I can.

Chip you are going about this the right way. You are new to the game and need to be aware of the pitfalls that come with it. Don't be afraid to question what you are hearing. Don't be afraid to read and take in other points of view. It will only make you better. Best the luck with the game.
 
^^^^This is wonderful advice right here.

Chip, no one here is saying that you shouldn't have in-person lessons. If that's how you learn best, by all means go for it. That being said, as Freddie pointed out, a good number of things you've told us about your instructor have all set off red flags for many of us who have either taken or given lessons. That's our biggest concern with your posts - we all want you to improve and love the game of golf, and many of the things you're telling us about your lessons just don't pass the smell test.

I started out with one instructor and took two lessons. I was very uncomfortable with the way they wanted me to stand and swing, to the point where my back started spasming. When I pointed this out, I was laughed at and told "well, that's golf! You're not supposed to be comfortable! Hurting means you're doing it right!" I walked away and immediately found someone new to take lessons from. And the second person I found has been much, much better for me as far as making things simple and easy to understand for my swing and body.

Please don't take anything Freddie or anyone else has said as a negative about taking in person lessons. As fellow golfers, we want you to have as much fun as possible, and get the most out of your lessons. That's all.

ETA: and just for the record, nearly every tip Freddie gave me after seeing one of my video'd swings was repeated by my second instructor the first time I saw him. Freddie knows what he's doing and has a wealth of knowledge he's offered to share with everyone here, please don't mistake advice online as being inferior - it's just a different way of presenting information.
 
No,all the advice I've received on this forum has been well appreciated.Ive invested a lot of time into my instructor and it's hard for me to step away right now.He said this can be a 3 plus season structure before I see the full effects of his teachings.Right now my goals are pretty straight forward.But as time moves along i will start expecting more.��
 
Chip said:
No,all the advice I've received on this forum has been well appreciated.Ive invested a lot of time into my instructor and it's hard for me to step away right now.He said this can be a 3 plus season structure before I see the full effects of his teachings.Right now my goals are pretty straight forward.But as time moves along i will start expecting more.��
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i wish you luck but 3 seasons is a very long time and would throw up the red flag for me if my instructor told me that. Do you have some sort of checkpoints/milestones built into this plan? Something like after 6months/10 lessons you will be playing bogey golf, 6 months later playing to a 13 hdcp, etc?
 
emart2173 said:
i wish you luck but 3 seasons is a very long time and would throw up the red flag for me if my instructor told me that. Do you have some sort of checkpoints/milestones built into this plan? Something like after 6months/10 lessons you will be playing bogey golf, 6 months later playing to a 13 hdcp, etc?
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I hope to be 90's by spring.And as he told me I should easily break in the mid 80's by fall if I stick to his advice and buy custom fit clubs.Than I'm hoping to keep on the path and maybe in 3 years I will be mid to low 70's
 
Chip said:
No,all the advice I've received on this forum has been well appreciated.Ive invested a lot of time into my instructor and it's hard for me to step away right now.He said this can be a 3 plus season structure before I see the full effects of his teachings.Right now my goals are pretty straight forward.But as time moves along i will start expecting more.��
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Chip,

I know it's hard to tell someone they're not right for you. You feel embarrassed and perhaps think they will be mad at you. But don't give it a second thought. Golf instructors are plenty busy and the moment one student moves on, they'll have another come in replacing them. You don't owe him an explanation. If he asks, just tell him you're working with someone else that's more convenient, fits into your schedule better, etc. If he's a bad person he might make some snide remark, but chances are really high he'll just wish you well and move on.

So if you don't think he's the right guy, don't hesitate. Just change. That said, if you believe in him, then by all means, stick with him.

The "if you buy custom fit clubs" is a little disconcerting to me as well, especially if you're of fairly standard size. While having custom fit clubs is great and helpful, I don't know many pros who would say they are a requirement to improving, especially if you're of somewhat standard size for a male and your current clubs fit well enough. Now, if you're 6-foot-8 and playing a set that's way too small for you, that'd be a different story.
 
If course a certain miss in acceptable. PGA pros have an acceptable miss on every shot they take.
 
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