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Cut Down or Lengthen the Driver?

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Sean

Sean

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Hi Andy,

I hope all is well. :)

I broke down my HI by regulation courses I play and par three/executive courses. My HI on the regulation courses is 16.7 and my HI on par three/executive courses is 5.8 (for example, I shot a 59 on a par 60).

The trouble I have on a regulation course is off the tee: lack of direction, and distance. My best holes are par threes. Do you think it would be beneficial to cut my driver from 45" to 43" or go from 45" to 48"?

When I play a regulation course with just my irons I average 11 fairways hit, but then I have a long way to the green. (However, I don't lose any golf balls!).

Thank you for your input.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Sean
 
Sean if you are directionally challenged off of the tee the first move to make with the driver is to make it shorter. For most people that I fit the "standard" driver length is too long. If you could get me wrist to floor measurements along with your height I could get you a static suggestion for driver length if you would like.

If you are at the stage of just having to do something to try and get this club in the fairway cut it down an inch to an inch and a half. This should help quite a bit. Good luck and let me know how it goes. Have a safe and enjoyable holiday season!!
 
amollerud said:
Sean if you are directionally challenged off of the tee the first move to make with the driver is to make it shorter. For most people that I fit the "standard" driver length is too long. If you could get me wrist to floor measurements along with your height I could get you a static suggestion for driver length if you would like.

If you are at the stage of just having to do something to try and get this club in the fairway cut it down an inch to an inch and a half. This should help quite a bit. Good luck and let me know how it goes. Have a safe and enjoyable holiday season!!
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Andy if you can give me a static suggestion I would very much appreciate it. I am 6'5" and my wrist to floor is 38.5 inches.

I'll do what you suggest and get my current driver cut down to 43.5 inches. I'll be going to TN over the holidays and hope to get in some golf. I'll let you know how that works.

Thanks again Andy and Happy Holidays!

Sean

ps: can you please send some warm weather to the Northeast?
 
DefCon1 said:
Andy if you can give me a static suggestion I would very much appreciate it. I am 6'5" and my wrist to floor is 38.5 inches.

I'll do what you suggest and get my current driver cut down to 43.5 inches. I'll be going to TN over the holidays and hope to get in some golf. I'll let you know how that works.

Thanks again Andy and Happy Holidays!

Sean

ps: can you please send some warm weather to the Northeast?
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I disagree with the shorter club idea. Are you hitting other shorter clubs perfectly now? Are you able to stick a 9 iron next to the pin or hit a 5 iron onto the green on the side you are aiming for with regularity? If not then work on your swing first. If you are doing that then get longest driver you can find and just keep it smooth. It will help you to practice swinging as slowly as possible and make good contact. As tall as you are you should not have to swing especially hard to get a lot of distance, I am 6-3 and the biggest problem I have is over swinging. Instead of physically shortening the driver just choke down an inch or two and see if that helps, that is a better way to test a shorter club than replacing the shaft. Lastly take a wider stance and keep your legs quiet through the swing, it is easy when you are tall to let your legs get away from you and that will throw of your swing plane, especially with a driver.
 
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pjcedog said:
I disagree with the shorter club idea. Are you hitting other shorter clubs perfectly now? Are you able to stick a 9 iron next to the pin or hit a 5 iron onto the green on the side you are aiming for with regularity? If not then work on your swing first. If you are doing that then get longest driver you can find and just keep it smooth. It will help you to practice swinging as slowly as possible and make good contact. As tall as you are you should not have to swing especially hard to get a lot of distance, I am 6-3 and the biggest problem I have is over swinging. Instead of physically shortening the driver just choke down an inch or two and see if that helps, that is a better way to test a shorter club than replacing the shaft. Lastly take a wider stance and keep your legs quiet through the swing, it is easy when you are tall to let your legs get away from you and that will throw of your swing plane, especially with a driver.
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My handicap on par 3 courses is 5.8 and on regulation courses 16.7 so I think I hit my irons okay, but no where near perfectly. I've tried gripping down on my driver and didn't like the feel. I've tried widening my stance too but feel I can't turn at all–I have a long torso and relatively short arms.

I have a tendency to over swing as well and am working on making a shorter swing, which I am more successful at with my irons.
 
The idea behind the shorter driver is a couple.
1...Companies make them too long for most people as a standard. IF you look back a few years older players were going to longer shafts for a bigger swing arc. You will get this but you will give up accuracy. The swing is too timing based when it gets longer.
2...A driver at the proper length (shorter than standard) is easier to control and much easier to find the center of the club face. A shorter driver that is fit to you WILL NOT cost you distance. Swinging a shorter club where you hit the sweet spot will go farther than a longer club that you hit all over the face.


DefCon: off of your static measures you should be playing a 44 inch driver. You will find that this is an inch short of most drivers standards (the exception being the TM Burners which are an inch longer than the rest). I hope that gives you a better idea of where you can go with the driver.

As a side note your 6 iron should be about 38 inches long with a 63.5 lie angle off of your static numbers. Good luck and let me know how things go.
 
amollerud said:
The idea behind the shorter driver is a couple.
1...Companies make them too long for most people as a standard. IF you look back a few years older players were going to longer shafts for a bigger swing arc. You will get this but you will give up accuracy. The swing is too timing based when it gets longer.
2...A driver at the proper length (shorter than standard) is easier to control and much easier to find the center of the club face. A shorter driver that is fit to you WILL NOT cost you distance. Swinging a shorter club where you hit the sweet spot will go farther than a longer club that you hit all over the face.


DefCon: off of your static measures you should be playing a 44 inch driver. You will find that this is an inch short of most drivers standards (the exception being the TM Burners which are an inch longer than the rest). I hope that gives you a better idea of where you can go with the driver.

As a side note your 6 iron should be about 38 inches long with a 63.5 lie angle off of your static numbers. Good luck and let me know how things go.
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You're very good Andy. My 6-iron is 38.25 inches and my lie angle is 63.5. I'll get my current driver cut down to 44" and let you know how that works out. Thanks again. :)

Sean
 
I recently started playing a driver (see signature) that is 44.5 inches and I am way more accurate off the tee without any significant loss of distance. I am 6'4 and have always struggled off the tee. I don't hit any club perfectly but I do think I have always been way less consistent (ball striking wise) with the driver...until now. It seems the shorter length helps me square the club face better and therefore I hit it well...even the dispersion on my mishits has gotten better...good luck with cutting down your driver and let me know how it works for you...:thumb:

P.S Hey "amollerud" don't a lot of tour players play with drivers under 45 inches? So I have heard...why would they...better control? And would that not be because they have a better chance of squaring the club face through impact with the shorter club???
 
ZM you are right. The average driver on tour is 44.25 inches long. Most of todays players are willing to give up the 3-5 yards with the extra length to be more accurate. The shorter the club the easier it is to square up. Not only that it is easier to hit the center of the club face.

In the case of many if not most amature players finding the center of the club will give them more distance than an increase in shaft length.

Looking into the 2010 golf season on tour it wouldn't suprise me to see the drivers get a touch shorter. These guys are going to be gunning for fairways with the new groove rules coming into play. I will be interested to see what comes of the driver over the course of this first year with the new grooves.
 
length adds frustration. I took my driver down 1.5 inches and it my average went from 9.5 to 11.5 fairways, and i only gave up 4 avg yards of distance.

but also look at going to a higher lofted driver. The more loft, the less sidespin you can put on the ball.
 
Shorter is better.

I've been playing with a 44-inch driver for a while now and I have no issues with distance at all.

I think this 46 and even 47-inch driver craze is ridiculous. And yes, the longer the club, the more timing becomes an issue. Sure, it's easy to hit shot after shot quite well with these broomsticks at a driving range where every shot is hit at a calm and leisurely pace. But when out on the course, most people tend to get a bit quicker with things and that's when the long drivers begin to bite back.

With a shorter length club, even if my swing is a bit too quick, I'm still close enough to the ball to be able to maintain control and even if I'm a little "off", it doesn't usually result in disaster. But being a little "off" with a 47-inch club often results in a lot of lost balls and disappointing scores.

Though I must admit that the colorful commentary following many such shots is often quite entertaining :thumb:


-JP
 
JPsuff said:
Shorter is better.


-JP
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FOR YOU!!!! Some need the extra distance and do not lose too much control. It is worth it to them.
 
I cut my Ping G10 from the stock 45.75 down to just a hair under 45.5 and it's probably mental to me, but it just doesn't feel the same and I don't like it as much


if the length of your courses allows it, what works for me when I need more fairways is to tee off with a 3wd or hybrid

my stats for hitting FW
driver 34.4%
3wd 45.4%
hybrid 56.5%

I'm no fairway finder, but I bet there are a lot of golfers who are more accurate with clubs other than the big stick in their hand
 
amollerud said:
ZM you are right. The average driver on tour is 44.25 inches long. Most of todays players are willing to give up the 3-5 yards with the extra length to be more accurate. The shorter the club the easier it is to square up. Not only that it is easier to hit the center of the club face. In the case of many if not most amature players finding the center of the club will give them more distance than an increase in shaft length.
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I agree but I would think for every 1/2 inch you cut down your driver you could loose more like between 10-15 yards? I cut my driver down 1/2 inch and on the average I am hitting it about 10 yards shorter from 270 to 260 but I am a whole lot more accurate. I can still poke one out there 280 or so but I am speaking average drives depending on conditions etc...

amollerud said:
Looking into the 2010 golf season on tour it wouldn't suprise me to see the drivers get a touch shorter. These guys are going to be gunning for fairways with the new groove rules coming into play. I will be interested to see what comes of the driver over the course of this first year with the new grooves.
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That is such a great point and wasn't that part of the USGA's reason for changing the grooves so as to force players to care more about fairways and greens versus the "Bomb & Gouge" way of playing the game...I think you are correct and if drivers get shorter on the Tour that will probably lead to shorter drivers sold to Amatuers...it will be intersting to see how this all pans out...:thumb:
 
JB said:
FOR YOU!!!! Some need the extra distance and do not lose too much control. It is worth it to them.
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Yes, for me, but I would say that it's also true for most people as well.

I know that doesn't sit well with the manufacturers, but that's life.

According to Tom Wishon: "90% of the drivers sold in the shops today are too long for most players."

And as far as length versus distance is concerned, Wishon has this to say:

"Most golfers believe that longer length drivers will hit farther. They won't. Drivers ranging from 43 to 45 inches were put to a test with 50 different golfers of varying handicap levels. The difference in distance between a 43- and a 45-inch driver is a whopping yard plus inches. In terms of accuracy, however, there is no question that the old adage of “the longer the length, the harder the club is to hit” certainly rings true."

I'm normally not a big fan of "Golf Guru's", but I happen to agree with Wishon on many things and this is one of them.


-JP
 
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JPsuff said:
Shorter is better.

I've been playing with a 44-inch driver for a while now and I have no issues with distance at all.

I think this 46 and even 47-inch driver craze is ridiculous. And yes, the longer the club, the more timing becomes an issue. Sure, it's easy to hit shot after shot quite well with these broomsticks at a driving range where every shot is hit at a calm and leisurely pace. But when out on the course, most people tend to get a bit quicker with things and that's when the long drivers begin to bite back.

-JP
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From JB:
FOR YOU!!!! Some need the extra distance and do not lose too much control. It is worth it to them.
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I fall right in between the J's. I am much more accurate with the 44.5 driver, but can get at least 15 yds additional carry with a 47". On some courses, I will carry both drivers and drop a wedge or 3-wood depending upon wind conditions and course.
 
JPsuff said:
Yes, for me, but I would say that it's also true for most people as well.

I know that doesn't sit well with the manufacturers, but that's life.

According to Tom Wishon: "90% of the drivers sold in the shops today are too long for most players."

And as far as length versus distance is concerned, Wishon has this to say:

"Most golfers believe that longer length drivers will hit farther. They won't. Drivers ranging from 43 to 45 inches were put to a test with 50 different golfers of varying handicap levels. The difference in distance between a 43- and a 45-inch driver is a whopping yard plus inches. In terms of accuracy, however, there is no question that the old adage of “the longer the length, the harder the club is to hit” certainly rings true."

I'm normally not a big fan of "Golf Guru's", but I happen to agree with Wishon on many things and this is one of them.


-JP
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When you start teaching people or become a club maker, then it can become fact as you like to state things. Myself and hundreds of others still prefer the longer shaft. Shorter is better FOR YOU. Shorter is not BETTER. Neither is better. That is why people should be fitted. If someone is taller than you should they still listen to your ridiculous judgement? Of course not. Get fitted and find the right shaft for you.

I
 
length again huh

length again huh

I am one of the above 6' guys who prefer no more than a 45 inch driver length. Two of my drivers are 44 1/2. My long driver is 45. It is most definitely a fitting thing for me. My arms are long which I suspect is why the shorter length drivers work better for me. Not to mention my timing is not as pure as it was a few years back. I am quite envious of the guys that can swing the long sticks with that smooth rhythm and keep it in play!

In saying the above, I am going to cut my 3 - wood which is 43 inches, down to 42. I actually hit my Hybrid Cobra 16 degree Baffler more consistant with good distance than my 3 - wood. I hoping that the inch difference with the 3-wood will bring it up to par with my Baffler one iron. Of course I will make sure the headweight of the 3 wood is up to my personal preference. If this little experiment does not work, the one iron baffler is going back in the bag.
 
bsandefu said:
In saying the above, I am going to cut my 3 - wood which is 43 inches, down to 42. I actually hit my Hybrid Cobra 16 degree Baffler more consistant with good distance than my 3 - wood. I hoping that the inch difference with the 3-wood will bring it up to par with my Baffler one iron. Of course I will make sure the headweight of the 3 wood is up to my personal preference. If this little experiment does not work, the one iron baffler is going back in the bag.
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I cut my driver to 44.5 and my 3 wood to 42.5, however, in doing so I went to a heavier shaft to help keep my swing weight close to orignial as possible...:thumb:
 
My Experience

My Experience

I am now on my second try at a shorter driver experiment (going from 45" to 44"). Yet again I find that I just don't like the shorter driver. I don't like swinging it no matter how I tweak it (I build my own clubs so can easily tweak flex and swingweight/MOI), I lose 10-15 yards, am not any better at finding the sweetspot, not any straighter, etc. I think that i am unusual in this regard, but that is my experience. FWIW, I have a very, very smooth tempo, a slightly early release, (in TGM terms) am definitely a 'swinger' (vs. hitter), and average height (5'10"). I am not a big hitter (250 yards including roll on flat, watered, summertime fairways is a very good drive for me).

I now have a new shaft in the mail and am going to try a longer driver. There must be an optimum length for every golfer, and all the data that I have seen indicates that it is shorter than 45" (typically). Guess I'm not typical.

dave
 
DaveLeeNC said:
I am now on my second try at a shorter driver experiment (going from 45" to 44"). Yet again I find that I just don't like the shorter driver. I don't like swinging it no matter how I tweak it (I build my own clubs so can easily tweak flex and swingweight/MOI), I lose 10-15 yards, am not any better at finding the sweetspot, not any straighter, etc. I think that i am unusual in this regard, but that is my experience. FWIW, I have a very, very smooth tempo, a slightly early release, (in TGM terms) am definitely a 'swinger' (vs. hitter), and average height (5'10"). I am not a big hitter (250 yards including roll on flat, watered, summertime fairways is a very good drive for me).

I now have a new shaft in the mail and am going to try a longer driver. There must be an optimum length for every golfer, and all the data that I have seen indicates that it is shorter than 45" (typically). Guess I'm not typical.
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Don't beat yourself up...:banghead: This can be a trying situation for each person to try and find the driver (length, lie, shaft, weight, etc...) that works for them. My story is that I wanted to always try a 44.5 driver just because I thought maybe it would make me more accurate. I struggle off the tee with driver and hit a lot of 3 woods. Anyway I tried a 75 gram Stiff shaft in my Srixon Z-RW (stock shaft was a 65 gram stiff shaft) but the swing weight was so light that I did not like the feel of the club...so recently my buddy at EW calls me and says this mini tour player just traded in a Titleist 909D2 with a Mitsibushi White Board shaft and it is 44.5 inches. So I go check it out..well it is also an 83 gram shaft and X stiff. So I am thinking this is too much shaft for me. Well I go hit it and I did loose a few yards (from my original 45 inch 65 gram stiff shaft Srixon driver) but I am hitting everything right down the middle...I played this weekend and only missed three fairways and not by much so I think I am going to stay with this driver...:thumb:
 
I played the last few round of 2009 choking down on my driver, and it seemed to work well for me. In bygone days, I always played a 43" driver (standard back then), and I was a pretty good tee player. Since the advent of the big clubheads and long shafts, I've lost accuracy and confidence on the tee. I'm planning on cutting my driver shaft down to no more than 43.5" before the start of next season. I find that I just feel more comfortable with the shorter shaft.

Just FYI Andy: I'm 6'2", but my arms are long enough that I measure for standard length.
 
Realistically, a person's height has little to do with club length.

A person's wrist-to-floor measurement as well as their swing plane have more to do with club length than anything else. That said, I still believe that anything over 45 inches in length for most players is too long and too unwieldy.

I also question the notion that one inch of shaft length equals 10 to 15 yards of distance. Virtually every study ever done on driver shaft length puts the distance per inch figures in the 1 to 3 yard category at best.

But one set of numbers IS quite interesting in that multiple studies have proven that a quarter-inch off-center hit costs about 5 yards and that goes up by as much for every additional quarter inch off-center so that a ball hit 3/4-inch off center will lose as much as 15 or more yards in carry.

Now it IS possible that for a particular person a longer shafted driver may indeed allow that person to bring the clubhead square and centered to the ball at impact thus resulting in what he perceives to be a large jump in distance. But that distance "gain" isn't really a gain as much as it's just a reflection of his normal distance because he's struck the ball squarely. But in any case, that's the exception which proves the rule. The measurements and angles of that person's swing may be such that in his case a longer shafted club is called for and works quite well.

But that person is simply one of the "Ten Percenters" who actually benefit from a longer driver shaft, but they cannot and should not be touted as some sort of universal proof that a longer shaft is better anymore than stating that because you once saw a blond haired woman sing with a beautiful voice, that ALL blond haired women are great singers.


-JP
 
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JPsuff said:
I also question the notion that one inch of shaft length equals 10 to 15 yards of distance. Virtually every study ever done on driver shaft length puts the distance per inch figures in the 1 to 3 yard category at best.

But one set of numbers IS quite interesting in that multiple studies have proven that a quarter-inch off-center hit costs about 5 yards and that goes up by as much for every additional quarter inch off-center so that a ball hit 3/4-inch off center will lose as much as 15 or more yards in carry
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I asked this question earlier as I wondered about this...I hit my driver 30 yards further then my 3 wood on the average and there is two inches of difference in shaft length so that equates to 15 yards per inch (or 7 inches per 1/2 inch) not considering loft???

Also what are you thoughts on swinging a heavier shaft...I would assume if you can generate the same swing speed as with a lighter shaft then your disctance should be close??? But does that make sense...I would think everyone can swing a lighter shaft faster. However, for me I feel like the heavier shaft works better for my tempo so I may loose a few yards but I do a better job of squaring the club face??? And in the defense of longer equals more distance would not a shaft being lighter and longer help genegrate more club head speed by thew time you got back to the ball and therefore hit it further...assuming you hit it on the sweet spot?


JPsuff said:
But that person is simply one of the "Ten Percenters" who actually benefit from a longer driver shaft, but they cannot and should not be touted as some sort of universal proof that a longer shaft is better anymore than stating that because you once saw a blond haired woman sing with a beautiful voice, that ALL blond haired women are great singers.
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You crack me up...:laughing:
 
JPsuff said:
But that person is simply one of the "Ten Percenters" who actually benefit from a longer driver shaft, but they cannot and should not be touted as some sort of universal proof that a longer shaft is better anymore than stating that because you once saw a blond haired woman sing with a beautiful voice, that ALL blond haired women are great singers.


-JP
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I know you believe that what works for you should and does work for everybody. Just like you believe that nothing new has improved and say it all the time. Blah blah blah 1975 was great blah blah blah.

But your own argument that it works for people goes against what you said in this thread earlier that "SHORTER IS BETTER". It is not better. It is better for you and many others. Just like longer is better for others as well.

This is the ask the pro section. THis section is for people to ask our Teaching Professional. For conversations on this topic, please use the regular forum!!!
 
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