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Ss12108

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Hi all. I am looking for some recommendations from this wonderful community for driver shafts. I had a combined lesson/driver fitting yesterday because my pro thought my current setup was a problem. Here's what I have:

2014 Big Bertha 10.5*
Fubuki ZT 60 Stiff
Standard Length

I began having trouble keeping the ball flight down. Trackman was able to pinpoint a swing issue which was great and should help, but the pro and fitter (obviously) both think I need something different. The shaft that seemed to fit best was a Diamana B Series 70...not sure if it was S or X but I'm assuming S. My swing speed is apparently between 100-105 with my current setup, and got up in 106-110 with the Diamana and a 9.5* R15 head. I generated about 3500 RPM spin consistently with my current setup and the ball goes WAY too high and doesn't roll an inch after landing.

I don't feel like spending $800+ on a custom driver. An alternative he recommended was the "chinese" version of the shaft (didn't catch the name) combined with a 9.5* SLDR head, which is more palatable, but if there's similar, less expensive options I'm all ears. I'm also still not sold that my BB head wouldn't be sufficient after changing shafts.

Before I pull the trigger on ANYTHING I'm working on the issue with my swing, but I do seem to still spin the hell out of the ball when I do it right, albeit to much better results.

Anyway...any suggestions would be great. Thanks!
 
Did you attempt changing the loft on your driver to move down and see the results on the launch monitor?
 
Sounds like you hit down on the ball an awful lot, which I do the same thing. Those two head/shaft combos you tried are very similar from what I've seen (launch/spin wise). That degree of loft might be making a big difference. The best thing that worked for me is going down from 10.5* drivers to the 9* I currently play. That cut the spin down a lot for me. I'd go with JB's suggestion of trying to loft down the BB before dropping the cash for new stuff.
 
I thought the same thing @cbaker2882 but Trackman confirmed that I consistently hit up on the ball. Part of the issue they found was leaving the clubface open, which I don't do with any of my other clubs, but apparently do RELENTLESSLY with my driver. Obviously that would create loft and I'm sure spin, but even when I closed the face and all of the other numbers they were tracking were where they wanted them to be with the swing, the spin was still too high.

@JB - dropped it to 9.5* and it didn't really do much. Take it for what its worth, but the fitter told me that adjusting to 9.5* vs buying the 9.5* stated loft has different results on swing/launch/etc. I don't remember if it was the pro, or the fitter, but one of them also didn't trust whether or not changing the loft on the BB also slightly altered the lie angle, which creates another variable.

I trust the process and don't mind spending a little $$ to get the right equipment, but I'm just hoping there's an alternative to the $400 shaft that gave me the best results haha.
 
Ss12108 said:
I thought the same thing @cbaker2882 but Trackman confirmed that I consistently hit up on the ball. Part of the issue they found was leaving the clubface open, which I don't do with any of my other clubs, but apparently do RELENTLESSLY with my driver. Obviously that would create loft and I'm sure spin, but even when I closed the face and all of the other numbers they were tracking were where they wanted them to be with the swing, the spin was still too high.

@JB - dropped it to 9.5* and it didn't really do much. Take it for what its worth, but the fitter told me that adjusting to 9.5* vs buying the 9.5* stated loft has different results on swing/launch/etc. I don't remember if it was the pro, or the fitter, but one of them also didn't trust whether or not changing the loft on the BB also slightly altered the lie angle, which creates another variable.

I trust the process and don't mind spending a little $$ to get the right equipment, but I'm just hoping there's an alternative to the $400 shaft that gave me the best results haha.
Click to expand...

Does the fitter that you went to sell multiple brands?
Do they not sell Callaway products?

Genuine questions as I am trying to gauge what was going on. I will say that if dropping the loft a degree is not going to alter things according to them, neither is changing a shaft. I also dont think one should have to go to a more penal driver laterally to hit it well either.
 
Ss12108 said:
I thought the same thing @cbaker2882 but Trackman confirmed that I consistently hit up on the ball. Part of the issue they found was leaving the clubface open, which I don't do with any of my other clubs, but apparently do RELENTLESSLY with my driver. Obviously that would create loft and I'm sure spin, but even when I closed the face and all of the other numbers they were tracking were where they wanted them to be with the swing, the spin was still too high.

@JB - dropped it to 9.5* and it didn't really do much. Take it for what its worth, but the fitter told me that adjusting to 9.5* vs buying the 9.5* stated loft has different results on swing/launch/etc. I don't remember if it was the pro, or the fitter, but one of them also didn't trust whether or not changing the loft on the BB also slightly altered the lie angle, which creates another variable.

I trust the process and don't mind spending a little $$ to get the right equipment, but I'm just hoping there's an alternative to the $400 shaft that gave me the best results haha.
Click to expand...

That's the strangest thing haha

Well if that shaft truly gave you the best results, I'd check ebay. A lot of times you can get pretty good deals on there for the same thing.
 
JB said:
Does the fitter that you went to sell multiple brands?
Do they not sell Callaway products?

Genuine questions as I am trying to gauge what was going on. I will say that if dropping the loft a degree is not going to alter things according to them, neither is changing a shaft. I also dont think one should have to go to a more penal driver laterally to hit it well either.
Click to expand...

He may not have had Cally, but he did try the G30, 915D, and the R15 & SLDR with different shaft combos for me while I was there. Then again, he probably just would have thrown my BB head on anything to see anyway.

Again, strange thing...I center the ball fairly consistently. That's why the pro brought me there to get on trackman...he couldn't figure out what was going on from the naked eye or from slo mo video. I don't have much of an issue with off center strikes so I don't think he was concerned about forgiveness, even though he did mention the only benefit he sees to the R15 over the SLDR for me would be a little more forgiveness. Obviously an open face is an issue, especially when I've been working on an inside out path on top of it haha.

Basically when I take a proper swing, release and square the face, with my current setup, the most I get out of it is 250 carry with no roll...I literally watch the ball get caught in the air, start floating straight up, and it plugs in the fairway haha.

Oh and he does want me to drop the loft a degree...just doesn't trust it as a shaft adjustment vs using a 9.5* head. If my BB head was 9.5* he might not even be suggesting switching it...he just doesn't trust the "adjustments" being as effective as a lower lofted head to start.

Edit: I guess ultimately they're looking for something stiffer and heavier for me. He handed me the Diamana/R15 9.5* combo and said, "Try this...this is a 'big boy' club." I had the best results with that combo on misses and on better swings.

Either way I'm going to work on the swing first before doing anything, but if I can get it worked out and I'm still getting that "spinny" ball flight, I want options that don't cost more than the rest of my entire bag haha.
 
Last edited:
Ss12108 said:
@JB - dropped it to 9.5* and it didn't really do much. Take it for what its worth, but the fitter told me that adjusting to 9.5* vs buying the 9.5* stated loft has different results on swing/launch/etc. I don't remember if it was the pro, or the fitter, but one of them also didn't trust whether or not changing the loft on the BB also slightly altered the lie angle, which creates another variable.
Click to expand...

Honest question here - does adjusting the lie angle of a driver really make much of a difference? I thought lie angle was only applicable to clubs that would be in contact with the ground when striking the ball?
 
TheDoctor said:
Honest question here - does adjusting the lie angle of a driver really make much of a difference? I thought lie angle was only applicable to clubs that would be in contact with the ground when striking the ball?
Click to expand...

Honest answer...no clue lol. I think maybe it just changes whether the face has a tendency to be slightly open or closed at contact?
 
TheDoctor said:
Honest question here - does adjusting the lie angle of a driver really make much of a difference? I thought lie angle was only applicable to clubs that would be in contact with the ground when striking the ball?
Click to expand...

Ss12108 said:
Honest answer...no clue lol. I think maybe it just changes whether the face has a tendency to be slightly open or closed at contact?
Click to expand...

the lie angle won't effect how open or closed the face is, so that wouldn't be a big issue. But lofting up or down does tend to change how open or closed the club face sits. Going down in loft tends to open it, while going higher in loft will close it.
 
cbaker2882 said:
the lie angle won't effect how open or closed the face is, so that wouldn't be a big issue. But lofting up or down does tend to change how open or closed the club face sits. Going down in loft tends to close it, while going higher in loft will open it.

Since you're saying you're having trouble closing the face in general, I think going slightly closed might actually help you. So again, I'd look to try lofting your BB down and see what happens.
Click to expand...

I think it may be the opposite though, no? Adjusting the loft down effectively opens the face?

My issue won't be corrected by a driver adjustment though...when I leave the face open, I literally leave my right hand under my left instead of releasing the club and coming over...I think my arms are defective haha. There's no real in between either...I either leave it WAY open, or I release and square it. Trying to figure out how to drill the release in the meantime while I research this equipment stuff haha.
 
Also, to be clear, I'm still not sold that getting the swing corrected properly won't make my current setup work, but I just want to know what options I have if I do decide to try a swap but don't feel like spending so much $$.
 
Ss12108 said:
I think it may be the opposite though, no? Adjusting the loft down effectively opens the face?

My issue won't be corrected by a driver adjustment though...when I leave the face open, I literally leave my right hand under my left instead of releasing the club and coming over...I think my arms are defective haha. There's no real in between either...I either leave it WAY open, or I release and square it. Trying to figure out how to drill the release in the meantime while I research this equipment stuff haha.
Click to expand...

Right yes. Opposite of what I just said haha, sorry. I'll fix that.
 
cbaker2882 said:
Right yes. Opposite of what I just said haha, sorry. I'll fix that.
Click to expand...

Haha no problem. Before I knew I was leaving the face open I tried adjusting the loft down, and the right miss got even worse, which is the only reason why I know myself haha.
 
Ss12108 said:
Also, to be clear, I'm still not sold that getting the swing corrected properly won't make my current setup work, but I just want to know what options I have if I do decide to try a swap but don't feel like spending so much $$.
Click to expand...

Ebay for sure. I've been looking at getting some new shafts for various woods, and you can find basically brand new shaft pulls for a lot less $$ on there.
 
cbaker2882 said:
Ebay for sure. I've been looking at getting some new shafts for various woods, and you can find basically brand new shaft pulls for a lot less $$ on there.
Click to expand...

OK cool. Any idea if shafts are counterfeited as much as clubs? Do you happen to know any shafts similar to the Diamana B 70?
 
Ss12108 said:
OK cool. Any idea if shafts are counterfeited as much as clubs? Do you happen to know any shafts similar to the Diamana B 70?
Click to expand...

Not sure on either of those accounts unfortunately. There are a lot of knowledgeable shaftoids on here though that could probably help you out with that second question.
 
cbaker2882 said:
Not sure on either of those accounts unfortunately. There are a lot of knowledgeable shaftoids on here though that could probably help you out with that second question.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly why this thread was started haha. Thanks for your input!
 
I may get shot down in flames for this, but I was watching a YouTube video where Mark Crossfield was in the Taylormade Performance Lab to test whether the shaft or head adjustments made the most difference

I was surprised to see that hitting different shafts with the same head configuration (R15) resulted in little differences going from the stock shaft to the lightest flexible shaft (I can't remember what this was) to the Black Tie which, if I remember correctly, is considered a pretty stout stiff shaft?

More differences were seen when the configuration of the head was changed - loft and weight placements

So how much of a difference does a shaft actually make? I know some people might prefer a heavier/lighter shaft but seeing the numbers from the video was interesting to me and something I have been curious about for a while now
 
TheDoctor said:
I may get shot down in flames for this, but I was watching a YouTube video where Mark Crossfield was in the Taylormade Performance Lab to test whether the shaft or head adjustments made the most difference

I was surprised to see that hitting different shafts with the same head configuration (R15) resulted in little differences going from the stock shaft to the lightest flexible shaft (I can't remember what this was) to the Black Tie which, if I remember correctly, is considered a pretty stout stiff shaft?

More differences were seen when the configuration of the head was changed - loft and weight placements

So how much of a difference does a shaft actually make? I know some people might prefer a heavier/lighter shaft but seeing the numbers from the video was interesting to me and something I have been curious about for a while now
Click to expand...

First, I love Mark Crossfield...him and Gorilla James are hilarious lol.

Second...I defer to the pros on this stuff, but my guess is a big part of it is "feel". When I had the Diamana in my hand (without knowing it was a $400 shaft haha), it just felt good, I felt comfortable taking it back, my transition seemed to be (feel) smoother, and consequently other than still leaving the face open, I had better results. That particular shaft was at least 10g heavier than what I'm using and has a much different flex as it was explained to me, as in where in the shaft the flex occurs.

Crossfield and I are much different animals also. Besides pure abilities, I'm built more like Gorilla James (an older more out of shape version who used to look like him haha), and frankly, I swing like an A-hole but make it work with everything but the driver. The fitter and pro wanted to get me to relax yesterday so they told me to picture that I was in a scramble and my partner just put it 250 in the fairway, now swing like you want to lock up the long drive. They both were horrified and asked me if I needed an ambulance because they couldn't believe I hadn't injured myself haha. That has to play into the whole shaft/head configuration dilemma...I probably have a much more aggressive/abrupt transition than a guy like him who seems to have a nice smooth swing.

Oh...and weight placements...I believe a good fitter can change the swing weight with the right shaft vs making any sort of club head changes...I read it online haha
 
Soooo...worked on my swing a couple days at the range. Went out yesterday...prettttyyyy sure I don't need any equipment changes haha. I did still have some big misses, but all in all, a good swing did what it was supposed to do lol. Who knows what the hell I was doing a couple of weeks ago when the ball was spinning like crazy. I'll probably get back on trackman once I am confident I own the swing tweaks to confirm, but man I'm glad I wasn't my usual impulsive equipment buying self.
 
JB said:
Did you attempt changing the loft on your driver to move down and see the results on the launch monitor?
Click to expand...

^This

Also i think that there are plenty alternative routes you can take without paying $800 for a custom driver or $400 for an aftermarket shaft. I currently game a SLDR with an aftermarket version of your shaft (does the aftermarket differ significantly from the "made for" shaft?) I couldn't tell you). When purchasing my club last year I went through a lot of testing with a myriad of drivers/shafts. LIke you, I found the BB with the made-for fubukizt60 to be a little too high launching and spinny. Not bad mind you, but I had a little problem controlling the shot shape and dispersion. The fitter plugged in an aldila tour green that comes stock on the x2hot pro, and it tightened up the dispersion instantly.

Ultimately, the BB head wasn't for me, but the aldila tour green was (for me) a vast improvement.

Best of all, you can find these lots of places, with your callway adapter already installed. you can get them for $90ish on ebay or maybe a thper would have one in the marketplace

Here's one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALDILA-ATX-...030?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51d45ef1b6
 
rallo said:
^This

Also i think that there are plenty alternative routes you can take without paying $800 for a custom driver or $400 for an aftermarket shaft. I currently game a SLDR with an aftermarket version of your shaft (does the aftermarket differ significantly from the "made for" shaft?) I couldn't tell you). When purchasing my club last year I went through a lot of testing with a myriad of drivers/shafts. LIke you, I found the BB with the made-for fubukizt60 to be a little too high launching and spinny. Not bad mind you, but I had a little problem controlling the shot shape and dispersion. The fitter plugged in an aldila tour green that comes stock on the x2hot pro, and it tightened up the dispersion instantly.

Ultimately, the BB head wasn't for me, but the aldila tour green was (for me) a vast improvement.

Best of all, you can find these lots of places, with your callway adapter already installed. you can get them for $90ish on ebay or maybe a thper would have one in the marketplace

Here's one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALDILA-ATX-...030?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51d45ef1b6
Click to expand...
I've been trying to figure out similar alternatives to the Diamana B 70 he fit me to, but I just don't know enough. I don't understand why one of the other diamana series shafts that I can grab for $110 on Amazon isn't a viable alternative to a $365 shaft he recommended. I also don't understand what could possibly be so great about the B series that it costs $250 more haha.

I'm back to the ball just getting way too high even on solid strikes, and its a 2 way miss the more I stress about it, and just so inconsistent. I don't have this problem with anything other than driver and 3W. 3W goes straighter but it getting SO high it's absurd.

I just bought a Titleist 712U in 18* and smoked the thing first time on the course, off the tee and from the deck. Last 3 par 4s that I'd usually use driver I used the 712 and thankfully I did to save me a few balls that would have inevitably wound up in the woods.

I shot an 85 last week, first time breaking 90, and it was in spite of the driver. It was "passable"...I just missed OB with it twice out of pure luck, otherwise I'm sure that 85 would have turned into a 93. My irons and wedges have been really solid lately so it's very frustrating to be punching back into the fairway or hitting 3 from the tee box on almost every hole I pull out the driver. Maybe the driving iron is the way to go for the time being, but before I had it, 3W wasn't even an alternative because I was having the same issues.

Just very frustrating to say the least.
 
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