We've launched the new forums! Read more here

100 yards and in...How do you practice and play it?

Lots of talk about how people play it, but not a lot of talk about how people practice it. Im not a fan of "you just have to keep hitting it from different lies" mentality because it brings bad habits. The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting different results (according to Einstein).

I practice this a lot and have 3 schools of thought.

1. The motion is what matters.
This is the truth. ****** technique is going to bring bad results regardless of how ingrained it is. Might make bad results less often, but they are still there. You can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig (sorry Ham Solo). I practice the actual motion and technique and do so from different ball placements to achieve different results. Make sure for ball first contact, working on accelerating through the ball and that my feet and body are in the proper setup before I even start.

2. 3 flights matter
This is something I learned from a tour player at a clinic with an OEM. He said "practicing for different flights brings a confidence in technique and contact more than it does practical use". I wrote that thought down and save it on my computer. I practice the high shot, the very low runner and the normal pitch that varies by loft. Each one is slightly different and by working on all three, it gives me the same goal as the end result, which is clean ball first contact, with no decel.

4. Go To Shot
Everybody needs it. Its the one that no matter how bad things are going, they can rely on. I know on the internet nobody really misses greens, but I do. And I do in all kinds of grass and different lies. This is a shot that I can play from virtually anywhere, that I dont get cute with and barring bunkers or unforseen issues, can be played most of the time. For me its the ball in teh back of the stance, shaft lean forward with my weight and virtually a putting motion with a lower lofted wedge (PW or 50*) with clean contact. Its a bump and run for many, but it can be played also as a 1 hop and stop with good technique.

I work on all of these shots and do so from 4 different distances.
 
Jman said:
So, JB's post pretty much lit a fire under my ass.

As I discussed in #TheGrandaddy thread earlier today when I answered the questions I posed to #TeamRedemption, one of my real weaknesses is 100 and in, particularly that 50-75 yard range.

What I ask you THP, is how do you practice those shots? What's your go to shot/club there? Why?

And I absolutely KNOW that someone will want to say "My shot is to avoid those numbers" or whatever, and while I get and respect that, that isn't what I'd like this topic to be if possible!
Click to expand...

I love these numbers. If I'm 100 and in, then I am pretty confident I'm hitting the green and being somewhat close. 100-90y it's a full either 50 or 54* wedge. under 90-75y typically I'm going either knock down 50* or 3/4 54*. 75-50y I'm going knock down 54*. and anything under 50y I am judging what kind of shot is needed based off the course and how guarded the green is, and either going 54 or 58 and judging the power needed.

Those are subject to change based on how I feel that day, but typically that's my thought process.

How to practice? Be bad at hitting the green with your long/mid irons and have lots of on course practice like me :D. Wedges are the best part of my game, and practicing anything with them helps you judge all distances. Even practicing 10 yard chips onto the practice green will give you better feel for a 50y pitch on course. Confidence also plays a huge roll in wedge play. If you have any doubt that what you are about to do may fail...it probably will. Any loss of speed or hesitancy when pitching/chipping the ball will most likely result in either missing the green, being really far away, or catching it thin/fat. Set up, take a confident swing, and note the results. After a bit of successes and fails, you'll start to really figure out and dial in distances.
 
Most of the time my 58 will come out. 100 is a perfect full lob for me. My game has improved a great deal over the last year, shot my PB recently because I put in that work to focus on 125 and in. On the range, I would say 50-55% of my practice is from 120 yards and in, controlling yardages and tempo is key for me.
 
JB said:
Lots of talk about how people play it, but not a lot of talk about how people practice it. Im not a fan of "you just have to keep hitting it from different lies" mentality because it brings bad habits. The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting different results (according to Einstein).
Click to expand...
If you have the technique, practicing a bunch for feel isn't insane. I don't think anybody is saying "just go hit balls with your sucky technique".

You can have proper technique, but if you don't practice a bunch to dial in the feel for different distances, I guarantee you're not getting up and down very often.
 
50-75 yards for me really depends on how much green there is to work with. If it's 75 yards with a lot of green to work with, I just do a normal 3/4 58* and let it release out. If it's 75 with little to no green to work with, I choke down on a 58* degree and force a steeper swing to generated more spin. 50 yards with green to work with, it's just a half 50* wedge and let it run out. 50 yards with a tight pin, and I'll open up a 58* and throw it up high.

From 100 yards I'll choke down an inch or so on a 58* and take a full swing. 100 yards into the wind, I'll do a knock down 50* and keep it low and one-hop stop.

Practice wise, I like to practice on the course as I think it's the best way to get real time situations. I'll hit the shot and if I don't like the outcome or just want to try it again, I throw another ball or two down and keep hitting until I hit the shot I want.
 
Dave Alvarado said:
If you have the technique, practicing a bunch for feel isn't insane. I don't think anybody is saying "just go hit balls with your sucky technique".

You can have proper technique, but if you don't practice a bunch to dial in the feel for different distances, I guarantee you're not getting up and down very often.
Click to expand...

But you can also have poor technique and just further ingrain it by hitting the same exact shot again and again, that is insanity.

On the course you don't see the exact same shot every time, because of that I don't practice as such. I learned long ago to hit shots with goals and intent, even in practice, rather than just hitting the ball again and again and again just to do it. THAT is what JB is getting at and precisely what I was looking for in this thread. Technique is king.
 
Jman said:
On the course you don't see the exact same shot every time, because of that I don't practice as such. I learned long ago to hit shots with goals and intent, even in practice, rather than just hitting the ball again and again and again just to do it.
Click to expand...
Right, so like I said,

Dave Alvarado said:
Find a chipping green, get 50-75 yds from it, and bang away until you're sticking them on the green. Once you can do that, try it from different lies. Try to flight the ball differently. Try to stick it with different clubs.
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume your technique doesn't suck, so just go practice. For others reading, if your technique *does* suck, do JB's "go to" shot. There are *very* few situations where it won't work.
 
These are half-shots from 7 iron to the wedges. I got the technique down pat, I just need lots more practice. There are times when I absolutely stiff it, more times when it lands far from the pin but it's on the green so that's still okay with me, and I have 3 or 4 where I blade it or chunk it. This last part I'm working on eliminating.
 
Dave Alvarado said:
Right, so like I said,

I'm going to assume your technique doesn't suck, so just go practice. For others reading, if your technique *does* suck, do JB's "go to" shot. There are *very* few situations where it won't work.
Click to expand...

Whether one's technique sucks or not doesn't mean it cannot be improved, the technique aspect is a critical part of the basis of this thread.

Whatever though dude, selectively quote away and do your thing.
 
JB said:
4. Go To Shot
For me its the ball in teh back of the stance, shaft lean forward with my weight and virtually a putting motion with a lower lofted wedge (PW or 50*) with clean contact. Its a bump and run for many, but it can be played also as a 1 hop and stop with good technique.

I work on all of these shots and do so from 4 different distances.
Click to expand...

What's interesting to me having seen that go to shot, is how it still works well in really bad lies around the green. It just pops out and runs, and very rarely does something weird like run up the face on you and come out dead.
 
I prefer 70 yards as its my full LW or 90ish for a full SW....everything else is partial swings which im not too bad at. Last year when i worked on the game more the local range had 2 flags inside 100 so worked on those from different diatances
 
Jman said:
Whether one's technique sucks or not doesn't mean it cannot be improved, the technique aspect is a critical part of the basis of this thread.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why you're trying to turn this into an argument. I'm just speaking from experience. 6 months ago my short game *sucked*. Either blading over greens or chipping 3 feet was generally what I did. I took a short game lesson and learned a technique. Then it became all about distance control, and the only way to get that is practice. My technique was the same from when I started practicing until now, but my execution is a heck of a lot better. Even with 6 weeks off for a hurt back, I was consistently closest to the hole out of a random foursome I played with last weekend.
 
Dave Alvarado said:
I'm not sure why you're trying to turn this into an argument. I'm just speaking from experience. 6 months ago my short game *sucked*. Either blading over greens or chipping 3 feet was generally what I did. I took a short game lesson and learned a technique. Then it became all about distance control, and the only way to get that is practice. My technique was the same from when I started practicing until now, but my execution is a heck of a lot better. Even with 6 weeks off for a hurt back, I was consistently closest to the hole out of a random foursome I played with last weekend.
Click to expand...

Keep up the good work dude, glad you found something that works!
 
What I ask you THP, is how do you practice those shots?
I take my three wedges and practice half and 3/4 shots at various targets.

What's your go to shot/club there? I like partial shots with the wedges. Full is rare, I find you have more control.

Why? I play this shots because I know what a full shot will do. I like to know what various swing lengths will do. Learn the clubs.
 
I've been working the "five drills" with my LW on the 45 yd lob shot. This is a tough one. I've tried the open stance, and it fails miserably. I've tried the square stance and I always end up left of target by about 15 yds. You know what? The club is short. I'm tall. It's so easy to come OTT with it. I'm tired of fighting skulls and fatties and shanks. I flush the pull almost every single time. So I've decided to play the pull with this one. This and my SW. Line up with the club head square to target and body aligned right. Pull it left. At least I end up close.

The GW from 95 to 105 I can line up straight.

Inside 30 yds I'll use my SW, maybe even my PW.
 
Fortunately in the mornings, my CC is pretty empty. So when I play a hole I'll play my shot and then get inside of 85 yards (which is my GW full-swing) and drop a couple of balls either in the FW or the rough and see how close to the hole I can get it. Usually if I'm playing this shot, for me it means I was short and I'm trying to get up and down.

This way I get plenty of views, from different lies, and potentially hazards in the way. Most of my lessons over the past two years have dealt with short game so I'd like to think I have the foundation for the technique down ... now it's just about executing. For me that means not pulling up and not decel'ing (which is my greatest sin). This is also partly why I don't practice putting on the putting green. The practice greens at the local course don't have the slopes that are found out on the course. Yeah, it's easier to make a six foot putt on a green flat as a board ... try doing it with some severe break and it gets much tougher. Only get that on the course.
 
A Course local to me has 3 practice holes ranging from about 67-75 yards. The 67 is way down hill so it plays to about 50 yards. I take my 56 degree wedge and a ball picker-upper bag and will drop 25 balls on the tee box and play all 3 25 shots. I will practice different swing types (full swing, full swing choked up, partial swings flighted down, partial swings skied up), and change flights for different wind conditions. I like to use real balls on this that I use on course (retired course balls in the bag) to see how balls carry and spin with each swing. After playing the 3 holes, which are in a triangle shape, I will pick some spots at different yardages and play them also. Maybe out of thick rough, or over a "hazard". Sometimes I will go with a playing buddy and we will have different contests to get the competitive juices flowing, because if I am amped up I can hit the balls a little farther. I do this after every driving range session, and I now feel that 100 yards in is no longer a weakness, but now I find myself playing shots to get to that distance, or am willing to use driver on short par 4s.
 
When I used to play a lot, I was a big proponent of the Pelz method (3 different length swings with all 4 wedges) and have tried to get back in it this season. I am pretty confident with basically a hip back swing (9:00) and the full swing, that covers distances like this:

Club Full 9:00
PW 125 66
AW 115 58
SW 100 50
LW 85 42

That is approximate, but I can take a little off by choking down and opening the face a little. The 9:00 swing has also come in very handy for punch type shots with my 6/7 iron. Ideally I would like to get a 10:30 swing in to get another consistent yardage with those clubs. There will be some overlap, but then it will give me some options depending on playing conditions.

I keep a card in my scorecard holder with these yardages. The downside is it takes some regular practice time to get these yardages dialed in and consistent.
 
Tadashi70 said:
What I ask you THP, is how do you practice those shots?
I take my three wedges and practice half and 3/4 shots at various targets.

What's your go to shot/club there? I like partial shots with the wedges. Full is rare, I find you have more control.

Why? I play this shots because I know what a full shot will do. I like to know what various swing lengths will do. Learn the clubs.
Click to expand...

Honestly, even though I am at a golf course a LOT, I don't get to play much. So when I have a chance to do anything golf, I want to be on the course and playing. I know that's not the best way to go about it, but If I practiced like I should, I would never get to play.
 
I do my version of a full swing with my wedges (which stops at 10 o'clock). I get:

60[SUP]o [/SUP]: 50 yards
55[SUP]o[/SUP]: 75 yards
50[SUP]o[/SUP]: 90-95 yards

I just got a new irons which came with AW which is 49[SUP]o [/SUP]and graphite so my distance for that should change a bit. I haven't had a chance to hit them yet. I like Pelz' idea of finding distances with your scoring clubs with a full swing, a 9 o'clock swing, and a 7:30 swing. He even recommends writing those on a sticker and putting them on the shaft of each wedge.

Of course with new irons I may end up changing out my SW and LW to 54[SUP]o [/SUP]and 58[SUP]o[/SUP] just so I don't have such a wide gap between the AW and the SW. I have to test to see what my distances/gaps are like with my new irons.
 
Mward said:
What's interesting to me having seen that go to shot, is how it still works well in really bad lies around the green. It just pops out and runs, and very rarely does something weird like run up the face on you and come out dead.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That is from learning it correctly and working really hard to ingrain it into my melon. Im working really hard right now on the 3 things I posted about. I think every golfer needs that. I am NOT a big fan of these full swings with high lofted wedges that are so short in length. So many variables come into play rather than a nice controled pitch that hits and stops.

We have these incredible tools at our disposal like great wedges, soft and urethane covered golf balls and manicured greens. I want to try and use them to the best of my ability.
 
I follow stockton's approach to the short game of aiming for a spot on the green to land the ball and figure out where it's going to roll, along with having a high and low shot to use.

I usually play 80-100 yards as a full shot and choke down to adjust for distance. Anything less than 80 is my 56 or 60 with my pitch swing, which is a different swing than I take with my irons. It's all feel for me, after adjusting my stance and how much I open the face, depending on lie, conditions, etc. I prefer going high and account for minimal roll.

Anything under 20 yards and I'm chipping or abbreviating my pitch, typically shortening my finish.

I have been trying to utilize a lower running shot, both closer to the hole and from further out, but need more time practicing it before I'll fully trust it on the course.

I spend once a week with short game and putting practice, trying different chips, pitches and focus on hitting targets. On the range, it's more target practice on full swings with the wedges. I also practice a lot in my backyard. Just hitting different flights at targets and getting comfortable with different grips, stances, etc. If I had the time, I would spend at least twice a week at a short game practice area. I firmly believe the more you practice the short game, the more comfortable you are on the course in several different situations and able to score well.
 
love this thread. ton of good info. I have changed quite a bit in my approach to these shots. In the past I would play my 56 from 105-80, my 60 from 80-55, and then my 64 from 55 and in. I was ok with this but it was a lot of full shots.
This summer their were a couple of good threads about these shots and I kind of saw the light with how I could simplify my game. I now play my 56 from 105 and in, I will use my 64 around the green if their is a bunker/hazard/short side flag. I have found a lot of success with this approach. I really worked hard on learning ball flight and my swing length. I also will choke down on the club and narrow my stance at times to help lower flight. IE I know that a 60 yard shot is a 7:00 for me when I swing if I want a good solid ball flight and little roll. I am always trying different combos of alignment and swing length to see how the ball flies and stops. I am really excited about getting out next year and expanding on this so that I can improve this area even more.

My practice has been a lot of range work and just watching flight. I play a lot as a single and play a lot of empty courses so I love being able to go out and drop a lot of balls around my actual shot and hit into the green. I will usually try and play a game and see if I can the same shot onto the green with 3 different flights or with 3 different clubs.

Something I thought about doing next year when I am doing more practice rounds is only taking half of my irons/wedges out and increasing my gaps so that I have to really work on different shots. So 1 round I take only my odd numbered clubs and then the next take only my even numbered clubs. I figure this could be a fun way to play and would probably teach me a lot.
 
Open the stance slightly and don't take it back as far with the same acceleration
 
Usually in situations like this my go to club is my 54 degree. I just feel comfortable taking 1/2 to 3/4 swings with it.

Over the summer I practiced this area of my game pretty heavily, as I'm lucky to have a short game area at my home course. It's become a steady part of my game, that I always wish was better and more consistent at proximity to the hole. But I have to say that this is something that constantly needs practice as it's easy to lose your edge.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top