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The Scratch Golfer Awakens

ShotScope
cbaker2882 said:
Everyone should play first hand with someone who is truly scratch or even on the plus side. For my own example, it's eye opening playing with Canadan. I know he hates having people talk about his game and how good he is, but the man doesn't really have a weakness. Tee to green he's complete. And the biggest part to his game is that he is a great putter. Which I think people will find is the big common denominator...if you can't putt, you'll never be scratch. The other big thing, is that when someone of that caliber misses, it's typically missed in the right spot, and they then get up and down the majority of the time.
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I suspect Canadan would tell you that he makes plenty of mistakes and has lots of disappointing shots per round. If you are scratch you have different expectations then a 10-handicap, or a 20, or a 30.
 
Johan185 said:
Yes that's what I take putting.

40 plus 60 equals 100.

Most of my recent strokes were on the green. 50 to 60 %

If I score 96

From 48 to 56 strokes putts.

I have counted.

I suck at putting. ..

Time to get to work.

Putting daily until I improve.

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i am really struggling with you having 48-56 putts, that is just crazy. How far from the hole are your approach shot's?
 
leftshot said:
This was actually a very insightful statement. I had a vice-president I worked with that called this "Every Man's Syndrome". It's the tendency to think that everyone is like us, will make the same decisions we would with the same information, have the same capabilities, potential, and so forth. Of course, when confronted with this point blank most will acknowledge this is crazy. Of course, different people have differing talents, abilities and so forth. But unconsciously most of the time we do what c.a.eleric did.
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I know I do. And have had to apologize for being so ooooooh in sensitive.


But that's being Human. Thinking we are all the same. But knowing really knowing we are all totally different.

Welcome to the Human mind

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Johan185 said:
Awoke this morning early and started working on my putting.

500 putts.

200 from 3 feet one putts.

200 from 6 feet one putts

100 from 20 feet. With the goal of not three putts from 20'

Time to start going low.

No more excuses.

Do or don't not, never try.

Happy New Year

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Click to expand...
Johan, what did you learn during that session?

As a few posters have stated consistency is key as well as improving your misses. So part of the process is learning during these sessions what are your common misses. Then what causes them. Finally, how to eliminate these inconsistencies.
 
jhstew1 said:
i am really struggling with you having 48-56 putts, that is just crazy. How far from the hole are your approach shot's?
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I can miss a 1 footer like it was the masters. Lol. Lmfao

But when you count every stroke it counts.

I never got the point of cheating. Not in school or golf.

Write down what you score or don't keep score. Why fudge.

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leftshot said:
Johan, what did you learn during that session?

As a few posters have stated consistency is key as well as improving your misses. So part of the process is learning during these sessions what are your common misses. Then what causes them. Finally, how to eliminate these inconsistencies.
Click to expand...
The most important thing that I found was that I was horrible at hitting the sweet spot of the putter. I mean come on. It's only two inches away. When I swing. How could I miss the ball.

Then I found out that even breathing was affecting the swinging of the putter.

So. Hold my breath. Smoother stroke.
Etc.

But I have only discovered the tip of the iceberg.

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Putting Tips That Will Help

Putting Tips That Will Help

Johan, based on everything you've shared I think you'll find this helpful.

Pay close attention to the face angle, it must be absolutely perpendicular to the target line every time. On short putts (<6 feet) you can do a lot of things wrong and still jar the putt if the face angle is right. Nothing influences these short putts more than face angle. On long putts if the face angle isn't perpendicular to your starting line you can find yourself with a big miss left or right.

Find a flat surface putt* and practice 4-6 foot putts. The goal is to make 95%+ of those putts consistency. If you are missing them even though you are setting the face perpendicular to the hole (you probably are) we need to find out why. Resist the temptation to adjust the face angle until you make them. Instead we need to find out the root problem and fix it. I'll be glad to help you. You will need to report back data on your misses. Specifically, how often do you miss and of those misses what are your top 3 misses? Something like this.

Missed = 30% of the time from 5 feet
45% of misses were short and left
25% of the misses were long and left
10% were lip outs
(In this example, 25% of the misses were something else.)

I'll then have a few questions based on your misses to diagnose the precise cause. Once answered we'll know what we need to fix.

* If you play in a region where greens have a lot of grain make sure you are practicing these putts directly down grain.

Johan, it would also help to know somethings about your current putting style. What kind of putter and grip do you use? How do you set up? How would you describe your putting stroke? [A pop? Pendulum motion? Quick? Languid? Inside/out/in? Straight back / straight forward?] How do you power your putt? [Rock the shoulders? Arm swing? Hands and wrists?]
 
this could have been covered already, but have you ever been fitted for a putter? I had no idea that there was different putting strokes and certain putters work better for each stroke. I am a straight back & through so I was told to get a counterbalanced putter. My putter I used most of the summer always came through a little open and I really struggled. Since switching to the counterbalanced putter, it has helped a lot and my ball rolls much more true.
 
leftshot said:
Johan, based on everything you've shared I think you'll find this helpful.

Pay close attention to the face angle, it must be absolutely perpendicular to the target line every time. On short putts (<6 feet) you can do a lot of things wrong and still jar the putt if the face angle is right. Nothing influences these short putts more than face angle. On long putts if the face angle isn't perpendicular to your starting line you can find yourself with a big miss left or right.

Find a flat surface putt* and practice 4-6 foot putts. The goal is to make 95%+ of those putts consistency. If you are missing them even though you are setting the face perpendicular to the hole (you probably are) we need to find out why. Resist the temptation to adjust the face angle until you make them. Instead we need to find out the root problem and fix it. I'll be glad to help you. You will need to report back data on your misses. Specifically, how often do you miss and of those misses what are your top 3 misses? Something like this.

Missed = 30% of the time from 5 feet
45% of misses were short and left
25% of the misses were long and left
10% were lip outs
(In this example, 25% of the misses were something else.)

I'll then have a few questions based on your misses to diagnose the precise cause. Once answered we'll know what we need to fix.

* If you play in a region where greens have a lot of grain make sure you are practicing these putts directly down grain.

Johan, it would also help to know somethings about your current putting style. What kind of putter and grip do you use? How do you set up? How would you describe your putting stroke? [A pop? Pendulum motion? Quick? Languid? Inside/out/in? Straight back / straight forward?] How do you power your putt? [Rock the shoulders? Arm swing? Hands and wrists?]
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Need to think and analysis before I can respond. But good things to look a for sure. Pendulum. Try for straight back and through.

Center shaft putter. Standard grip.

Use shoulder for smooth strokes

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kb1042 said:
this could have been covered already, but have you ever been fitted for a putter? I had no idea that there was different putting strokes and certain putters work better for each stroke. I am a straight back & through so I was told to get a counterbalanced putter. My putter I used most of the summer always came through a little open and I really struggled. Since switching to the counterbalanced putter, it has helped a lot and my ball rolls much more true.
Click to expand...
Yes. Told this putter fits. But who knows since I really suck at putting

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Dr RosenRosen said:
Short game, short game, short game, and then when you're sick of practicing your short game, you should practice your short game. If you know you can get up and down from anywhere - or two putt from anywhere - it makes hitting approach shots so much easier. This, I would think, would drop your hdcp the quickest.

But as many have already said, the difference between a 10 hdcp and 5 hdcp, and then 5 hdcp to scratch is massive.
Click to expand...


It's all about the short and mental game! IMO, someone of average physical ability can certainly get to a high single digit index in 3-5 years with proper instruction and dedication but getting to a scratch in any amount of time is out of reach for most. For the vast majority of scratch or better golfers the game is mostly mental and for reasons I don't understand, most either can't or won't master the mental skills necessary to play scratch golf.
 
tahoebum said:
It's all about the short game! IMO, someone of average physical ability can certainly get to a high single digit index in 3-5 years with proper instruction and dedication but getting to a scratch in any amount of time is out of reach for most.
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I believe. ..... you are correct.

But if I aim for the stars I might just land on the moon.

Shooting 70's from the front tee's. Perfectamundo

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I went from 18 to 11.6 in 2015...

That will be trending up, bc I played on 1/1/16 and blew up shot a 101 with 39 putts. I had a lesson today, and will be back on the course tomorrow, to see if I can avoid the blow ups that derail a round... I'm not freaking out bc, I played on 1/1/15 and shot 101 also... Good Luck with your journey...

Dax
 
JDax said:
I went from 18 to 11.6 in 2015...

That will be trending up, bc I played on 1/1/16 and blew up shot a 101 with 39 putts. I had a lesson today, and will be back on the course tomorrow, to see if I can avoid the blow ups that derail a round... I'm not freaking out bc, I played on 1/1/15 and shot 101 also... Good Luck with your journey...

Dax
Click to expand...

You just got the blow up round out of the way early..now you're ready for 2016!
 
I was practicing putting using an aiming line, chalk line. When I noticed. That for my eyes. If I look straight down the line from the putting position the hole appears to be bending to the right. Even though I know it is a straight line and putt to the hole.

So I aim one cup left to hit the target for a 6' putt

Interesting optical illusion

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Johan185 said:
I was practicing putting using an aiming line, chalk line. When I noticed. That for my eyes. If I look straight down the line from the putting position the hole appears to be bending to the right. Even though I know it is a straight line and putt to the hole.

So I aim one cup left to hit the target for a 6' putt

Interesting optical illusion

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Next time out, take your stance over the ball, then take a second ball put it on the bridge of your nose right between your eyes and drop it. It should land right on top of your ball. I suspect yours won't. Adjust your stance so it's directly over the ball. That's how to eliminate most of the optical illusions people have when when standing over a putt.
 
leftshot said:
Next time out, take your stance over the ball, then take a second ball put it on the bridge of your nose right between your eyes and drop it. It should land right on top of your ball. I suspect yours won't. Adjust your stance so it's directly over the ball. That's how to eliminate most of the optical illusions people have when when standing over a putt.
Click to expand...
Thanks

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leftshot said:
Find a flat surface putt* and practice 4-6 foot putts. The goal is to make 95%+ of those putts consistency. If you are missing them even though you are setting the face perpendicular to the hole (you probably are) we need to find out why. Resist the temptation to adjust the face angle until you make them. Instead we need to find out the root problem and fix it. I'll be glad to help you. You will need to report back data on your misses.
Click to expand...
Johan sent me a message that most of his misses are short and right, while some are just right. On putts of this length short and right means the face is open to the target line at impact and less energy is being transferred to the ball so it doesn't go as far.

The most likely cause is simply a mishit on the toe side of the face. Unless you have a death grip on the club, a toe hit will torque the head momentarily causing the ball to go right with less energy transferred to the ball so it doesn't go as far. Johan, based on your observations about the number of mishits and perception issues this is the most likely cause. The alignment tip I just posted will help, though you may still need to train your eyes on what perfectly perpendicular looks like and then learn to trust it and not try to 'correct' by manipulating the stroke.

The second most likely cause is upper body motion during your putts. Even though you told me you try to take the club straight back and through, I can assure you that with a shoulder rock motion and a standard length putter there is somewhat of an arc in your swing. If the upper body moves forward during the downswing this moves the bottom of the swing arc forward. This causes you to hit the ball with an open face and de-loft the club (it's still moving down). Even a small descending angle will cause the ball to skid immediately after impact causing the ball to come up short. The fix for this is pretty straightforward. Putt while keeping your head in place until the ball is long gone. With a rock the shoulders putting stroke you should simply rotate around the spine. Everything else is passive. If you are reading this and find this is an engrained fault you need to fix you'll probably find keeping your head in place feels very restrictive and at first causes your putts to come up short. Stick with it and resist the temptation to add other parts of your body as a motor. Focus on keeping your head in place and simply rotate the shoulders more than you are used to doing. With practice your touch will come back and with it much improved accuracy.
 
leftshot said:
Johan sent me a message that most of his misses are short and right, while some are just right. On putts of this length short and right means the face is open to the target line at impact and less energy is being transferred to the ball so it doesn't go as far.

The most likely cause is simply a mishit on the toe side of the face. Unless you have a death grip on the club, a toe hit will torque the head momentarily causing the ball to go right with less energy transferred to the ball so it doesn't go as far. Johan, based on your observations about the number of mishits and perception issues this is the most likely cause. The alignment tip I just posted will help, though you may still need to train your eyes on what perfectly perpendicular looks like and then learn to trust it and not try to 'correct' by manipulating the stroke.

The second most likely cause is upper body motion during your putts. Even though you told me you try to take the club straight back and through, I can assure you that with a shoulder rock motion and a standard length putter there is somewhat of an arc in your swing. If the upper body moves forward during the downswing this moves the bottom of the swing arc forward. This causes you to hit the ball with an open face and de-loft the club (it's still moving down). Even a small descending angle will cause the ball to skid immediately after impact causing the ball to come up short. The fix for this is pretty straightforward. Putt while keeping your head in place until the ball is long gone. With a rock the shoulders putting stroke you should simply rotate around the spine. Everything else is passive. If you are reading this and find this is an engrained fault you need to fix you'll probably find keeping your head in place feels very restrictive and at first causes your putts to come up short. Stick with it and resist the temptation to add other parts of your body as a motor. Focus on keeping your head in place and simply rotate the shoulders more than you are used to doing. With practice your touch will come back and with it much improved accuracy.
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Thanks. Will do

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Johan185 said:
I can miss a 1 footer like it was the masters. Lol. Lmfao

But when you count every stroke it counts.

I never got the point of cheating. Not in school or golf.

Write down what you score or don't keep score. Why fudge.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
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not sure why the reference to cheating, it has not been mentioned anywhere, but if you are missing 1 footers you are practicing the wrong stuff, if i had that many putts per round or in one round, i would go to the putting green & would not go anywhere near the practice range until I made 100% of my 1 footers on the practice green
 
jhstew1 said:
not sure why the reference to cheating, it has not been mentioned anywhere, but if you are missing 1 footers you are practicing the wrong stuff, if i had that many putts per round or in one round, i would go to the putting green & would not go anywhere near the practice range until I made 100% of my 1 footers on the practice green
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I just mentioned cheating or fudging is that we have all played with individuals who use a foot wedges or fluff their lies and claim to be low handicappers. I was just disclosing that what ever you read that I post is the best and correct information I have. No Internet golfing.

And yes I have been hitting the short game and putting hard but haven't stopped just keeping the long game in tune by hitting balls daily on the range.

Don't want to correct one problem while I allow another part of my game to fall apart.

Cowabonga

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Johan185 said:
I was practicing putting using an aiming line, chalk line. When I noticed. That for my eyes. If I look straight down the line from the putting position the hole appears to be bending to the right. Even though I know it is a straight line and putt to the hole.

So I aim one cup left to hit the target for a 6' putt

Interesting optical illusion

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
leftshot said:
Next time out, take your stance over the ball, then take a second ball put it on the bridge of your nose right between your eyes and drop it. It should land right on top of your ball. I suspect yours won't. Adjust your stance so it's directly over the ball. That's how to eliminate most of the optical illusions people have when when standing over a putt.
Click to expand...
FYI that the Cleveland 2135 putter makes alignment of eyes over the putter irrelevant. Plus, it has the best feeling face I've ever tried.

Johan, it really is worth taking a look at this putter. Here is a ton of information on it:
http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?73560-Cleveland-TFI-2135-Putter-Preview
 
tequila4kapp said:
FYI that the Cleveland 2135 putter makes alignment of eyes over the putter irrelevant. Plus, it has the best feeling face I've ever tried.

Johan, it really is worth taking a look at this putter. Here is a ton of information on it:
http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?73560-Cleveland-TFI-2135-Putter-Preview
Click to expand...
I have been pondering it as well

But please THP'ERS. No Mas Clubies.

Lol. My bank account and wifey are going to kill me.

But my stroke is so out of whack I just need to practice putting even if it's a broom.

But the 2135 looks sweet.

Next on the list.

Lol

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Putting is a different animal and it's crazy how many different things work for different people. Right-handed people putting left-handed, putting with cross dominate eyes, putting one handed, putting left hand low. So many right ways to putt, you should start experimenting more and see what works if you're that far off in you're putting game.

I also had a 2-ball putter for a while and it was good at first, but then I just couldn't make the 2-ball alignment work after a while. I switched to a SeeMore and it's much easier to keep the putter square with their alignment system.

Last but not least, just don't turn it into a second job. I had a friend that had a similar goal and he put in so much time in going low, he got down to a 3, that he burned out trying to rush it and dedicating all of his time to it. This was about six years ago, he still plays every once in a while but you can tell the game just isn't the same to him anymore.
 
so-illhacker said:
Putting is a different animal and it's crazy how many different things work for different people. Right-handed people putting left-handed, putting with cross dominate eyes, putting one handed, putting left hand low. So many right ways to putt, you should start experimenting more and see what works if you're that far off in you're putting game.

I also had a 2-ball putter for a while and it was good at first, but then I just couldn't make the 2-ball alignment work after a while. I switched to a SeeMore and it's much easier to keep the putter square with their alignment system.

Last but not least, just don't turn it into a second job. I had a friend that had a similar goal and he put in so much time in going low, he got down to a 3, that he burned out trying to rush it and dedicating all of his time to it. This was about six years ago, he still plays every once in a while but you can tell the game just isn't the same to him anymore.
Click to expand...
Thanks good advice.

Especially the advice to keep it fun

Thanks.

Will try not to let the OCD get out of hand

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