Everything you've wanted to know about golf but were afraid to ask.

If I have my irons loft made 1* stronger, does this reduce the bounce by 1* also? Example= 4 iron is 24* loft 2* bounce if I move to 23* loft, does the bounce go to 1*? And what negative effect will having less bounce do?

Snickerdog said:

If I have my irons loft made 1* stronger, does this reduce the bounce by 1* also? Example= 4 iron is 24* loft 2* bounce if I move to 23* loft, does the bounce go to 1*? And what negative effect will having less bounce do?

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My recollection from the Cleveland event is they said 1:1 ration on loft and bounce. My understanding is that less bounce can be good or bad depending on your swing and the playing condition of the course.

Snickerdog said:

If I have my irons loft made 1* stronger, does this reduce the bounce by 1* also? Example= 4 iron is 24* loft 2* bounce if I move to 23* loft, does the bounce go to 1*? And what negative effect will having less bounce do?

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Yes. Stronger is less bounce.

Less bounce will make you 'dig' more into the turf. Im a sweeper so i want less bounce.

This is a great thread.

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When you assemble a driver shaft, don't you just have to put on the adapter, cut to length, and put the grip on? I don't do any club building so feel free to tell me that I'm an idiot.

I tried to get my new Elements shaft (thanks UST!!) assembled before dinner tonight. I asked for the shaft graphics and grip logo up. The guy started to talk about puring (strike 1) and then asked where the driver head was (uh what?). He said that he needed it or else how do you know where neutral is. I didn't have it in the car and I had a better place to be (see the beer thread) so I told him that I'd come back. I'll find another place.

The neutral was in regard to how he installs the grip. Even if you know what loft you are going to set it at it is still best to have it on to ensure a grip with logo/index marks is aligned correctly. Unless you had a "360" style grip with no marking on it.

I would like a explanation of "play the most forgiving club you can" I play MP15's now, played G20's before that.

UVaWahoo said:

This discussion has become very educational for me and interesting to me, so please permit me another question. The fitter suggested that I appear to be more of a hitter than a swinger. I got the impression is was best to be a swinger which is something I will address with my instructor. I use what are called senior shafts, I assume that means they are lighter and more flexible. The fitter stated that for a hitter a stiffer shaft may be more appropriate. I also know that shafts have a flex point, is there a direct connection between shaft stiffness and the flex point. For someone with a slow swing speed is it best for the flex point to be higher on the shaft or lower on the shaft or does it matter and its more about the weight of the shaft. (Which as an aside is something else I don't understand-how so few grams of weight can make such a difference).

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i got schooled in this thread http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?77463-stiffness-and-weight-question

Great info in here for us trying to become more educated in all things golf. Thanks all for sharing your wealth of knowledge!

-CRW- said:

What about this hole:

The pond in front of and next to the green is yellow staked (at least up around the green). The water far left is red staked. If I aim for the green and fly the ball over the green, but hook it left into the water/pond next to the green, what are my options? Can I drop on the small sliver of land between the pond and the big lake/red stake area on a line where the ball crossed into the hazard no closer to the hole? Or am I pretty much stuck hitting off the tee box again?

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Bumped for the answer. I was back on this course today and found that prior to the green the water is red staked. My water miss typically goes over the red staked portion of the water, then over the green, but hooks left into the water over the yellow staked area. There is about 12-24" of collar along the left side of the green if a drop there is legal. I'm just not sure how you'd satisfy the "no closer to the hole" portion of the rule when taking a drop.

Here's the view from the tee box:

As long as the collared section is outside the hazard, you drop there if that's where you last crossed the margin of the hazard.

If you are hitting it left off the tee and not reaching the green, you would drop where you first crossed the hazard, right in front of the tee boxes.

Here is an easy one for you guys but baffles me.Ive been told in my lessons that he face angle at impact determines where the ball goes.So if I'm swinging inside out but have a closed face than why do I slice?push slice I would say.And why would I pull as well with the same scenario?

Please be honest.Im honestly stumped by it

Chip said:

Here is an easy one for you guys but baffles me.Ive been told in my lessons that he face angle at impact determines where the ball goes.So if I'm swinging inside out but have a closed face than why do I slice?push slice I would say.And why would I pull as well with the same scenario?

Please be honest.Im honestly stumped by it

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The face angle is open to the club path for a slice. So even if the face is closed 3 degrees it can still slice if the path is more than 3 degrees out to in.

Also it determines what direction the ball starts on, not necessarily where it goes, small nit pick difference.

ntanygd760 said:

The face angle is open to the club path for a slice. So even if the face is closed 3 degrees it can still slice if the path is more than 3 degrees out to in.

Also it determines what direction the ball starts on, not necessarily where it goes, small nit pick difference.

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I'm trying my best to relate this to my other hobby billiards.When I hit the outside of the pool ball with my stick inside out on the left tip it doesn't do this!.Still can't comprehend how that much of a variable can make it slice.So the only way to fix this would be to have a -stronger grip-close the face at the top of the swing -or roll my hands over.I aplogize but I just can't see how it can slice that much if you are already swinging in that direction of inside out.Beyond baffling how one can be a slicer if they are inside out and already have a closed face.

So if one is 8 degrees inside out one must have a 10 degree closed face to hit a hook and 8 would be straight right.Anything less would be a slice pusher ?

Chip said:

I'm trying my best to relate this to my other hobby billiards.When I hit the outside of the pool ball with my stick inside out on the left tip it doesn't do this!.Still can't comprehend how that much of a variable can make it slice.So the only way to fix this would be to have a -stronger grip-close the face at the top of the swing -or roll my hands over.I aplogize but I just can't see how it can slice that much if you are already swinging in that direction of inside out.Beyond baffling how one can be a slicer if they are inside out and already have a closed face.

So if one is 8 degrees inside out one must have a 10 degree closed face to hit a hook and 8 would be straight right.Anything less would be a slice pusher ?

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You want the face angle to be half of the path. If your swing path is 6* then your face angle should be 3*. This will produce tight draws. Balls that start right of the target and draw back to the left. I have linked a youtube video Mike Bender (Zach Johnson swing coach) did that explains this. It also shows Zach's swings and trackman numbers. In which Zach has a swing path of 6.8 and a face angle of 3.4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz831ZUkVBk

cyoung2ty said:

24-2 says if the obstruction interferes with the stance or intended path of the swing, relief under 24-2b applies.

Free relief within 1 club of the nearest point of full relief not nearer the hole.

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[h=4]Obstructions[/h]An "obstruction" is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured ice, except:

a.
Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings;

b.
Any part of an immovable artificial object that is out of bounds; and

c.
Any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course.

ntanygd760 said:

The face angle is open to the club path for a slice. So even if the face is closed 3 degrees it can still slice if the path is more than 3 degrees out to in.

Also it determines what direction the ball starts on, not necessarily where it goes, small nit pick difference.

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Also, when it comes to hitting driver, and to a lesser degree other woods, gear effect can contribute to a slice/hook. So if you swing in-to-out with a face that is square to the path but struck on the heel you will get a push with some degree of fade to it.

From what I understand A Flat Swing is when you bring the club back low and around your body and then swing inside out. Where is a steep swing is bringing the club straight back and up then swing down and straight through to the target.

Chip said:

Here is an easy one for you guys but baffles me.Ive been told in my lessons that he face angle at impact determines where the ball goes.So if I'm swinging inside out but have a closed face than why do I slice?push slice I would say.And why would I pull as well with the same scenario?

Please be honest.Im honestly stumped by it

Click to expand...

Chip said:

I'm trying my best to relate this to my other hobby billiards.When I hit the outside of the pool ball with my stick inside out on the left tip it doesn't do this!.Still can't comprehend how that much of a variable can make it slice.So the only way to fix this would be to have a -stronger grip-close the face at the top of the swing -or roll my hands over.I aplogize but I just can't see how it can slice that much if you are already swinging in that direction of inside out.Beyond baffling how one can be a slicer if they are inside out and already have a closed face.

So if one is 8 degrees inside out one must have a 10 degree closed face to hit a hook and 8 would be straight right.Anything less would be a slice pusher ?

Click to expand...

English placed on a cue ball may not really be a good way top think of it. Firstly one (the cue ball) is traveling in contact with a solid surface (the table top) and has that friction involved vs flying through the air where the friction and/or forces are one of lift and aerodynamics. There is a lot going on with aerodynamics. Layers of air on and around the ball and its dimples and drag and gravity and lift etc.. Also the cue ball is spinning forwards (for a left/right side English) while also spinning side ways but the golf ball is spinning backwards while also sideways.

I hope I explain this to be understandable as I do find this stuff (the physics of it) interesting to discuss.

The golf ball will start out in the direction the club face hits it at but then any side spin placed by the swing path(in/out or out/in) will cause the ball to curve its flight in the opposite direction of the swing path. But we always assume our target line is the way we are facing or aiming although a ball and club do not know this. And so even though we may think we're swinging in/out in relation to our body and its intended target line we can actually still strike the ball out/in as we impact it in relation to our club face.

The only thing the club and ball know is face angle vs swing path and the relation to each other, not target line. What I mean is,.... swing a club in/out and if the face lines up dead even (at zero) with that swing path guess what? The ball will head straight and towards the right in the direction of the face which was also in this instance the same direction of the path and so it will not turn and simply head in a straight line shot towards the right for a "push". The face angle and swing path were the same regardless of your intended target line and there was no side spin created because your swing path (although in/out relative to you) was all square as far as club path and face. Your target line and what you judged with it became irrelevant.

Now lets open the club face even further than that same (relative to your body) in/out swing path and now you will not only push the ball right but will also fade or even slice more right. Reason is because the club face was open in relation to the swing path and even though in/out in relation to your intended target line was still not in/out in relation to the club face. The club and ball do not know target line and so the ball was still hit with an out/in motion via face more open than the club path was open therefore creating a fade or slice. So the ball heads off right but this time turns even further right even though your swinging in/out in relation to the way your standing and viewing your target line.

-CRW- said:

Also, when it comes to hitting driver, and to a lesser degree other woods, gear effect can contribute to a slice/hook. So if you swing in-to-out with a face that is square to the path but struck on the heel you will get a push with some degree of fade to it.

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Yeah I completely ignored gear effect to keep it simple for the question. As someone who misses on the toe often I know all about it.

Across the line means at the top of your swing your club head is pointing right of the target or "across" the imaginary target line.

The hands getting stuck behind you means you've turned your chest and/or hips with disconnected arms leaving them behind you. At any point in your swing you want your hands and arms connected to your torso so that if there was a laser pointing straight out of the center of your sternum it would be pointing to your hands. Training aids like the swing shirt or the balls your hold between your forearms are designed to help with keeping the arms in front of your chest throughout the swing.