Is short the way to long?

sposey013168 said:

Are you more accurate with your wedge or your driver?
This thread confuses me, to each their own on what length driver they play, but the argument that longer shaft does not cause inaccuracy baffles me, if that's the case why don't we play our irons at 46 inches?

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Good question. I've never tried to hit my driver 140 but I know for a fact that anything over 140 yards my driver is way more accurate.

There are so many ideas on the golf swing that I don't think any one of them is absolute for every golfer. I wouldn't hesitate to say that most people have the same level of consistency short or long but the shorter shaft may not generate the same distance so you on the first cut and 15 yards short compared to a longer driver that puts you 5 yards into the deep rough and closer to the hole.

I don't think there is a right or wrong but a shorter driver can limit your options.

Jman said:

As with anything, there is a point of diminishing returns. Danny played 47.5" at one point. I think my brain would wreck me there. LOL

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I think I would feel like I was playing tee-ball at that point. I picked up one of those Cobra Long Tom drivers and it just felt all sorts of wrong.

Scrap Iron said:

Good question. I've never tried to hit my driver 140 but I know for a fact that anything over 140 yards my driver is way more accurate.

There are so many ideas on the golf swing that I don't think any one of them is absolute for every golfer. I wouldn't hesitate to say that most people have the same level of consistency short or long but the shorter shaft may not generate the same distance so you on the first cut and 15 yards short compared to a longer driver that puts you 5 yards into the deep rough and closer to the hole.

I don't think there is a right or wrong but a shorter driver can limit your options.

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Maybe that's not such a bad thing for alot of golfers.

lightningbolt44 said:

5 yards constantly is a lot no one can deny that and people saying they wouldn't want it without losing accuracy are full of it . But on that note swing efficiency went down for you then as well if you only gained 3 mph ball speed. Again moot point because the end result is better than before but it is just something to point out as some won't see that increase in ball speed. You also have a much better swing than most amateurs do as well

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No I don't. I'm a hack!

Interesting thread here. Personally, I've used longer shafts and shorter ones and I can't say I've seen a noticeable difference in results between the two. There may be a difference, but my drives tend to be in the same general areas regardless of overall shaft length. I do know that my current driver plays 44.75" and I feel quite connected to the clublhead, whereas the 46" I had often felt like I was swinging a kitchen broom. The results were still roughly the same though.

That said, playing longer and choking down has its benefits. I play choke down shots with every club in my bag to hit those in between distances that my J40's brought into play and they are really, really useful and often are much more accurate than full shots. I also choke down with my driver to the bottom of the grip for certain shots, and the difference in distance Is about 15% less than in my full driver swing. That choke down is about 3", so with myself as an example, I could reasonably extrapolate that adding 1.5" to my driver could add up to 7-8% more distance or about 10 yards.

I was not saying ht your driver from 140 lol just saying as a general rule the shorter the shaft the more accurate most are, hence a 9 iron shot is usually closer to the pin than a 5 iron.

For me a "longer" driver limits my options as it causes the option of 3 off the tee more often.

I am 5'7" so my driver at 44.5 is prob more like a guy that is 6 foot tall playing a driver at 46

Scrap Iron said:

Good question. I've never tried to hit my driver 140 but I know for a fact that anything over 140 yards my driver is way more accurate.

There are so many ideas on the golf swing that I don't think any one of them is absolute for every golfer. I wouldn't hesitate to say that most people have the same level of consistency short or long but the shorter shaft may not generate the same distance so you on the first cut and 15 yards short compared to a longer driver that puts you 5 yards into the deep rough and closer to the hole.

I don't think there is a right or wrong but a shorter driver can limit your options.

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Jman said:

As with anything, there is a point of diminishing returns. Danny played 47.5" at one point. I think my brain would wreck me there. LOL

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Kind of what I figured, but didn't know if there was a greater reasoning behind it or not.

I wonder, for a company like Taylormade (Aeroburner) and Calllaway (XR) how they decide on 46" with both lines being marketed around distance. I know the Long Tom gets brought up, but wonder if one of those companies were to do it, if the result would be different? Hmmm.

DevRickus said:

Maybe that's not such a bad thing for alot of golfers.

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Very true. I know for me if a 44 inch driver was a fit I would cut it because of where I like to hold the club. I'm not a fan of chocking up and seeing 2 inches of the butt end haining out of my palms. Again it's all mental.

Catching up I this thread & there is a lot of merit to both sides of the discussion.

I'm on the side of why not choke down on the driver bc most of us are doing it anyways with every other club to try and "control" (Jman's favorite word ) distance. Then practice with it at full length to get used to that wider swing arc. It can only benefit to have that extra distance in the bag when you need it IMO.

I get most amateurs don't have a repeatable swing & until they do they should play what gives them the best opportunity to keep the ball in play, but IMO that's limiting your potential. Now I know personal situations dictate how much we can devote to the game, but minimal practice can help & get a solid repeatable swing going throughout the bag regardless of the club in hand.

Many have said it, but it boils down to the individual & the mental side of their games. We play as much with our brains as we do our physical abilities, so it's natural to gravitate to "what works", but what's wrong with using knowledge, (science in this case), to get better? Why limit your abilities?

sposey013168 said:

I was not saying ht your driver from 140 lol just saying as a general rule the shorter the shaft the more accurate most are, hence a 9 iron shot is usually closer to the pin than a 5 iron.

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Thats true, but shorter shots also increase your margin for error by increasing the maximum angle you can miss by. For example, you can miss your 9 iron by 6° at 140 yards but at 200 yards maybe that angle changes to 3°. These angle numbers are not correct, BTW. I'm just throwing them out there for the sake of the discussion.

I'm going for 46 length if I can help it. Let's be honest, an extra inch or two in length isn't going to be the difference between me finding the fairway or 60yds OB. That has been and always will be the product of just a crap swing.

EaglevsFalcon said:

Thats true, but shorter shots also increase your margin for error by increasing the maximum angle you can miss by. For example, you can miss your 9 iron by 6° at 140 yards but at 200 yards maybe that angle changes to 3°. These angle numbers are not correct, BTW. I'm just throwing them out there for the sake of the discussion.

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Also holds true for a longer driver though. The longer the shot the less you can miss by that is part of the other side of the discussion.

lightningbolt44 said:

Also holds true for a longer driver though. The longer the shot the less you can miss by that is part of the other side of the discussion.

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Exactly. That was largely the point I was trying to make

sposey013168 said:

I was not saying ht your driver from 140 lol just saying as a general rule the shorter the shaft the more accurate most are, hence a 9 iron shot is usually closer to the pin than a 5 iron.

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EaglevsFalcon said:

Thats true, but shorter shots also increase your margin for error by increasing the maximum angle you can miss by. For example, you can miss your 9 iron by 6° at 140 yards but at 200 yards maybe that angle changes to 3°. These angle numbers are not correct, BTW. I'm just throwing them out there for the sake of the discussion.

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lightningbolt44 said:

Also holds true for a longer driver though. The longer the shot the less you can miss by that is part of the other side of the discussion.

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The shorter irons are also higher loft, which helps.

Mward said:

I'm going for 46 length if I can help it. Let's be honest, an extra inch or two in length isn't going to be the difference between me finding the fairway or 60yds OB. That has been and always will be the product of just a crap swing.

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pretty much how i feel. i can hit good and bad shots regardless. i will take extra speed over a fractional amount of accuracy

Scrap Iron said:

Why does longer have to be less accurate?

A short shaft killed my consistency, distance and confidence.

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I think this misconception comes from the idea of trying to hit a nail with a hammer that has a 5" arm as opposed to hitting the same nail with a hammer that has a 10" arm. Generally in physics, the longer the arm of a lever the more the movements at the fulcrum are amplified at the line of action. It's for this reason why a longer lever arm should theoretically generate more power. Have someone hit you with a 12" ruler and then have someone hit you with a yard stick...both will hurt, but the yard stick in theory would exert more force on you.

Canadan said:

Comparing a wedge to a driver is about as useful as comparing a putter to a driver, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, I think there's merit in playing what works for your game, but there are also a ton of golfers who truly benefit by adding distance to their game -- and if they were to play the same driver long enough, would not have a terrible time adapting to a longer shaft.

Considering companies have been producing drivers at notably longer lengths for the 'faster' and 'longer' designs, there's got to be some merit to it.

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Trout Bum said:

I agree, how much control does a higher (18-30) handicapper truly have with a club of any length? I know I didn't have any but I thought I did.

I used a shorter club for a couple reasons first and foremost was fairways hit, the Aldila shaft I have functions perfect for me at 44.5, it was fitted so I do think the fitting holds merit because there were a few yds difference in dispersion, that's why I've had it so long. I have just gone 45.5 in the TM R-15 stick and so far it has proved to be a similar to my old driver just longer which is just an aiming adjustment.

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I think the biggest takeaways from both of these posts is that both of you have athletic swings and don't release the club early. I'm pretty confident that you would both hit a 46" driver the same you'd hit a 45" driver. Also, you both have repeatable swings.

Driver lengths have been between 45.5" and 46" for about 10 years(?) now and the whole methodology behind this was that a longer shaft should increase club head speed and distance. One thing to remember though, is that a longer shaft requires more effort to maintain that speed because it's traveling a longer distance. So someone with an early release or a "non-athletic" swing in theory would have a much harder time maintaining club head speed, face angle, etc due to the duration in time of the swing. However, you can overcome some of this by making the shaft lighter. If the lever arm is lighter, then it will require less energy to maintain speed. So, it's no surprise that as shafts have become lighter, lengths have increased.

lightningbolt44 said:

If you choke down on the 46 inch shaft why not just play a shorter shaft? I do get the concept of when you are wide open then play it at 46 but if more often than not you are playing it like a 45 what is the point? I think we can all agree a longer shaft creates more speed I don't know that I have seen that argued at all. I would be curious to see not only UST's findings (data) on the subject but other companies as well.

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The thing here is getting properly fit for clubs. How many of us have actually been properly fit for a driver. Not just shaft, shaft flex and head, but length as well. Every fitting I've had at a golf galaxy or PGA superstore is always based on the stock length of a shaft. I went for a 3w fitting a couple of weeks ago at golftec and found was astounded to find out that not only should I have a 70g ahina in my 915F, but I should also be playing it at 42.5". I didn't believe it at first, but my numbers were much better with that shaft and set up over any other. I played for the first time with this set up on Saturday and my normal playing partners were blown away at how well I was hitting my 3w. It was longer, and straighter.

I think the big takeaway from the guys at the UST event is that they were fit for length, flex, and every other measurable possible for a driver shaft. If I were to go to an event and be fit into something by experts I would definitely play that and scream from the mountain tops that "X length driver is the way for me to go".

I measured my driver yesterday and it's actually 44.75...so we'll call it 45. When I took the inch off of it I thought it was playing at 45.5, not 46". Does this mean I'm a better driver now because of shorter shafts.....maybe...maybe not. In my mind I'm more confident, and as Jman and many others have mentioned, the brain is the most important part of the golf swing.

emart2173 said:

pretty much how i feel. i can hit good and bad shots regardless. i will take extra speed over a fractional amount of accuracy

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Isn't the speed gained a fractional amount as well?

adamw238 said:

I think this misconception comes from the idea of trying to hit a nail with a hammer that has a 5" arm as opposed to hitting the same nail with a hammer that has a 10" arm. Generally in physics, the longer the arm of a lever the more the movements at the fulcrum are amplified at the line of action. It's for this reason why a longer lever arm should theoretically generate more power. Have someone hit you with a 12" ruler and then have someone hit you with a yard stick...both will hurt, but the yard stick in theory would exert more force on you.

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Interesting analogy. Of course with the longer arm, you could just move your hands to make it easier. However with the shorter arm, you might never be able to generate the power needed for some nails.

JB said:

Interesting analogy. Of course with the longer arm, you could just move your hands to make it easier. However with the shorter arm, you might never be able to generate the power needed for some nails.

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You could also just hire a general contractor to do it too....lol

adamw238 said:

You could also just hire a general contractor to do it too....lol

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Or buy a pneumatic nail gun.

Man I wish that analogy translated to golf.

adamw238 said:

You could also just hire a general contractor to do it too....lol

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Will you be my general contractor? You hit all of my tee shots, and I will laugh at your short shaft? Oh wait, that came out wrong. Try again, you hit all my tee shots, and I will hold my longer shaft. Wait that didnt work either. Lets just say you are the general contractor. :angel:

JB said:

Will you be my general contractor? You hit all of my tee shots, and I will laugh at your short shaft? Oh wait, that came out wrong. Try again, you hit all my tee shots, and I will hold my longer shaft. Wait that didnt work either. Lets just say you are the general contractor. :angel:

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Don't know why....by Top Gun just came to mind...

I know every time I try to hit a 46" driver my average drive gets shorter and more crooked. 1 out of 5 drives might be longer but I lose a lot of control. Heck, I hit my 2Deep more than my driver for this same reason.

I asked 3 of the teaching pros at my club about recommended driver length today. They all agreed that most bogey golfers can't handle a 46" driver and would be better off hitting something 45" or less. One of the commented that playing the right ball or hitting center face vs. 1/2" off center will add more distance than an extra inch on the shaft. I asked him how many of his students were playing the correct ball for their swing speed and he said maybe 1 out of 5.

tahoebum said:

I know every time I try to hit a 46" driver my average drive gets shorter and more crooked. 1 out of 5 drives might be longer but I lose a lot of control. Heck, I hit my 2Deep more than my driver for this same reason.

I asked 3 of the teaching pros at my club about recommended driver length today. They all agreed that most bogey golfers can't handle a 46" driver and would be better off hitting something 45" or less. One of the commented that playing the right ball or hitting center face vs. 1/2" off center will add more distance than an extra inch on the shaft. I asked him how many of his students were playing the correct ball for their swing speed and he said maybe 1 out of 5.

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Playable length and length are two different things.
I also believe that many teaching pros are amazing at helping students however are incorrect far too often when it comes to the changing technology of equipment. You ask the same instructors the same question 5 years ago and they say they should be playing 43.5. Then ask them what changed between now and then to go to 45 and they will look at you like you are speaking Russian.

JB said:

Playable length and length are two different things.
I also believe that many teaching pros are amazing at helping students however are incorrect far too often when it comes to the changing technology of equipment. You ask the same instructors the same question 5 years ago and they say they should be playing 43.5. Then ask them what changed between now and then to go to 45 and they will look at you like you are speaking Russian.

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Haven't nearly all OE drivers been at 44.5"+ for over a decade? All the 10-15 year old drivers in my garage certainly are.

I don't think there is a correct answer for driver length but I do think that everyone needs to get fit properly. Drivers over 45" don't help me but I do have a buddy who recently went from 45" to 46" and added loft and he is about 20 yards longer and just as straight. For some a 43" driver will as long and straighter than a 45.5".