Blades Vs Cavity Back

Today as I continue to practice I was getting pretty much the same distances from the Blades as the Cavity Backs.

Once I started hitting the sweet spot consistently the distance advantage has evaporated. The XR Pro's and the MP -5's club for club are very similar when struck in a similar fashion.

By having a shrunken sweet spot the Blades have forced me to shorten my back swing, otherwise I would not be able to play with them at all. But once I engraved a compact swing into my DNA I have taken another major step forward in my evolution as a golfer.

My new back swing feels like a quarter swing but on video analysis it was actually a full swing with out the over swing I had suffered with for years.

It had been difficult for me to engrave this change before. With years of failure and frustration.

Maybe a blade or two from EBAY might improve another Hacker's swing like it did mine.

Again PGA pro absolutely required.

Don't try these swings along.



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Today as I continue to practice I was getting pretty much the same distances from the Blades as the Cavity Backs.

Once I started hitting the sweet spot consistently the distance advantage has evaporated. The XR Pro's and the MP -5's club for club are very similar when struck in a similar fashion.

By having a shrunken sweet spot the Blades have forced me to shorten my back swing, otherwise I would not be able to play with them at all. But once I engraved a compact swing into my DNA I have taken another major step forward in my evolution as a golfer.

My new back swing feels like a quarter swing but on video analysis it was actually a full swing with out the over swing I had suffered with for years.

It had been difficult for me to engrave this change before. With years of failure and frustration.

Maybe a blade or two from EBAY might improve another Hacker's swing like it did mine.

Again PGA pro absolutely required.

Don't try these swings along.



Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

How long did it take you to have the shorter swing in you dna. Do you still have to think about keeping it short or is it just natural and free flowing now.
 
My biggest dilemma going forward is the following.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in my feelings heading into next week.

I have two tournaments coming up in the next week or so. One on the 12/30/15 and the other 1/2/16.

Well as you can imagine I am finding it very hard to decide which set to bag, and how many hybrids to play.

Should I play Mizuno and risk being call out as a Poser. Even if I only play the Mizuno's up to a 7 iron.

Or should I play it safe with my trusty Callaway XR Pro's. Playing up to a 5 iron, with hybrids on top and a bucket of wedges on the bottom.

Putter and Driver are easy. Taylormade M1 9.5, and my trusty Odyssey two-ball white steel putter.

Opinions welcomed.

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How long did it take you to have the shorter swing in you dna. Do you still have to think about keeping it short or is it just natural and free flowing now.
Long and short answer.

I have been working on shortening my swing for 6 months. But it never felt natural.

Two weeks of Blades. Bam, Bam, Bam. Not a single swing thoughts other than making smooth solid contact.

Very straight ball flight with either clubs. Hooks and slices gone, dead and buried.

Which is why I am suspecting the Blades had a piece of the credit. But also 99% is finding the right instructor.

Honestly, any swing change is hard, but without an external pair of highly trained eyes. It's Impossible.

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Q: Cavity players...could you ball strike some what decent ...in relation to, close to center face impacts, with a lower lofted wedge ...or a blade 8,9,pw which are approx 36 inches long...the shortest club in your bag.

I understand your point and agree with you to a point. I prefer the look of traditional blade type wedges and used to game then. A bigger percentage of the time (vs 5i, for example) they were just fine. I ultimately have gone with more CB set wedges because the added forgiveness on full shots matters and I don't lose anything hub gaming them over blades. But again, I do understand your point.


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Long and short answer.

I have been working on shortening my swing for 6 months. But it never felt natural.

Two weeks of Blades. Bam, Bam, Bam. Not a single swing thoughts other than making smooth solid contact.

Very straight ball flight with either clubs. Hooks and slices gone, dead and buried.

Which is why I am suspecting the Blades had a piece of the credit. But also 99% is finding the right instructor.

Honestly, any swing change is hard, but without an external pair of highly trained eyes. It's Impossible.

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Thanks and I think with this post and based on the rest of the thread you should play the mizzunos in your tourney's.
 
I understand your point and agree with you to a point. I prefer the look of traditional blade type wedges and used to game then. A bigger percentage of the time (vs 5i, for example) they were just fine. I ultimately have gone with more CB set wedges because the added forgiveness on full shots matters and I don't lose anything hub gaming them over blades. But again, I do understand your point.


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I think most golfers would tend to agree with your sentiment here. Speaking from my own experience, I love my new cavity backed apex cf16 AW. That thing is great on full shots, and I found it very versatile in certain situations ranging from 50-110 yards. I normally wouldn't have gone that route as like many others PSG had mentioned, I typically played MB wedges. I probably would have taken the apex wedges to the SW if the fitting pro didn't strongly recommend the s-grind for my game and home course play.

I wonder how many people would make the switch to CB wedges if they hit them next to MBs side-by-side. I will admit, ego was a factor, but i'm grateful for the gentle nudge by Garrett from Callaway.
 
Didn't read through the entire thread so this may have already been covered in one way or another.

First off what I have read on here is refreshing in that it sounds like most here at HP have common sense and understand reality. Not to name other sites I'm also a member of but whenever this topic comes up the vast majority honestly believe blades will help make them a better golfer. All it takes is a couple "old timer" members to spread the disease and all of a sudden people are drinking the grape kool-aide like it's Jim Jones and Guyana all over again.

Over 40 years of playing this great game I will tell you my observations of 5 to 20 handicaps playing blades. First off it's like owning a Ferrari. Their fast and pretty but the fortunate few that are rich enough to own one rarely knows how to drive it properly unless they are a retired Formula 1 driver.
Much the same in golf when it comes to blades and my observations are that when a golfer finally demo's a set of blades or tries their buddies they first discover that their normal "slash" at the ball doesn't work very well so in an attempt to find the sweet spot they slow everything down. They think what their doing is smoothing out their swing and their transition, but what their really doing is simply masking their faults.
The other thing they don't understand is how "loft" can mask bad swings. I don't know how many times I've heard handicapped blade users proclaim how they really hit their 7-PW very well but just can't find the magic with their 3-6 irons. There is no magic, as the loft is reduced swing faults are simply compounded!

There is one gentleman at my home course whom I have great respect for his honesty. He's a 10 handicap that plays blades and he has told me " I know I'm not good enough for these clubs but I just love the looks of them"! Now that I can totally respect. No B.S. about how they help him swing and learn better, just purely loves the looks of them and he's willing to sacrifice his score for that up front.


As individual golfers everyone should just play whatever they want, but in my experience the old "it makes me a better golfer" just doesn't hold water in any way shape or form. Fixing your swing faults makes you a better golfer and if you improve enough to where you can find the sweet spot on a highly consistent basis, blades may be a good option at that point. In my experience that's at about the point a golfer reaches at or near scratch on a competitive course at a competitive yardage.

I've heard this said before and I think it's a great template to go by: Play the most forgiving club you can stand to look at!
 
Today as I continue to practice I was getting pretty much the same distances from the Blades as the Cavity Backs.

Once I started hitting the sweet spot consistently the distance advantage has evaporated. The XR Pro's and the MP -5's club for club are very similar when struck in a similar fashion.

By having a shrunken sweet spot the Blades have forced me to shorten my back swing, otherwise I would not be able to play with them at all. But once I engraved a compact swing into my DNA I have taken another major step forward in my evolution as a golfer.

My new back swing feels like a quarter swing but on video analysis it was actually a full swing with out the over swing I had suffered with for years.

It had been difficult for me to engrave this change before. With years of failure and frustration.

Maybe a blade or two from EBAY might improve another Hacker's swing like it did mine.

Again PGA pro absolutely required.

Don't try these swings along.



Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I would treat each club individually...play which club which hits best....sometimes some shafts just in their setting preform better over another for reasons that is another subject. e.g if you hit the blade 6i well bag it...if you hit the XR 9i well bag it...
 
Didn't read through the entire thread so this may have already been covered in one way or another.

First off what I have read on here is refreshing in that it sounds like most here at HP have common sense and understand reality. Not to name other sites I'm also a member of but whenever this topic comes up the vast majority honestly believe blades will help make them a better golfer. All it takes is a couple "old timer" members to spread the disease and all of a sudden people are drinking the grape kool-aide like it's Jim Jones and Guyana all over again.

Over 40 years of playing this great game I will tell you my observations of 5 to 20 handicaps playing blades. First off it's like owning a Ferrari. Their fast and pretty but the fortunate few that are rich enough to own one rarely knows how to drive it properly unless they are a retired Formula 1 driver.
Much the same in golf when it comes to blades and my observations are that when a golfer finally demo's a set of blades or tries their buddies they first discover that their normal "slash" at the ball doesn't work very well so in an attempt to find the sweet spot they slow everything down. They think what their doing is smoothing out their swing and their transition, but what their really doing is simply masking their faults.
The other thing they don't understand is how "loft" can mask bad swings. I don't know how many times I've heard handicapped blade users proclaim how they really hit their 7-PW very well but just can't find the magic with their 3-6 irons. There is no magic, as the loft is reduced swing faults are simply compounded!

There is one gentleman at my home course whom I have great respect for his honesty. He's a 10 handicap that plays blades and he has told me " I know I'm not good enough for these clubs but I just love the looks of them"! Now that I can totally respect. No B.S. about how they help him swing and learn better, just purely loves the looks of them and he's willing to sacrifice his score for that up front.


As individual golfers everyone should just play whatever they want, but in my experience the old "it makes me a better golfer" just doesn't hold water in any way shape or form. Fixing your swing faults makes you a better golfer and if you improve enough to where you can find the sweet spot on a highly consistent basis, blades may be a good option at that point. In my experience that's at about the point a golfer reaches at or near scratch on a competitive course at a competitive yardage.

I've heard this said before and I think it's a great template to go by: Play the most forgiving club you can stand to look at!
Very thoughtful response. And I hope that this question is only seen for what it is. A desire to learn more and understand more about golf.

As you noted when a high handicapper swings a cavity back the advanced technology may hide their swing flaws and allow them to hit a 3 or 4i consistently. But as soon as they pick up a blade the swing flaws are completely revealed.

This was my experience as well. Therefore I chose to get blades to expose these flaws and hopefully correct them.

I agree with the Ferrari analogy, but can't an amateur with lessons learn how to drive a Ferrari or hit a blade.

When I claim improvements with a blade I am referring to hitting a 4 iron at 90 mph successfully. This is my normal swing speed with a Cavity back.

So. Does the exposure of swing flaws with instructions and hard work improve my game. Or should I continue hitting SGI irons that mask my flaws and lack the feedback to improve my swing

This was the original question. Which option is best. Not necessarily to score the lowest or which would be the easiest, but the best way to improve.

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Johan, if you were to split rank advancements in your game between working with an instructor and using the blade how would you do so?

50/50, 60/40?

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Not to sound harsh, but are you honestly looking for advice on which irons are best to play? Because as someone who has followed this thread, it really comes off that you're more so looking for reasons to play the MP5's. If you want to play the MP5's, play them. That should be enough. Patrick65's response more than answered your original question, and he actually did so in a very eloquent way. If you like the look of the MP5's when they are behind the ball, and you have enough confidence to play them, then do it. But it's been said a lot in this thread that there is nothing the XR pros won't do for you and nothing they won't tell you feedback wise. And they simply aren't masking any swing flaws.

If you're looking to shoot better scores and improve, IMO, play the XR pros. If you prefer the look of the blades and just want to play pretty irons, play the MP5's. But with all of the information in this thread it still seems like you're just really looking for stats or something tangible that says "play the blades because they're better". They simply aren't. They are just built for different purposes.
 
90/10. Favoring the instructor. With out a guide I would be hopelessly lost.

So it isn't about just hitting golf balls until your hands bleed. But on the other hand I had honestly felt stuck for the past month or so. Taking lessons which focused on the same flaws which I was not able to correct.

So I searched for an answer. Read some blogs and posted the question on THP.

Maybe the change in irons gave me a new feel which propelled me to implement the swing changes I was trying to achieve.

Maybe the same results would have occurred with a change to a different Cavity Back. Randomized double blind trials would have put this to rest.

But as when we switch putters to get our feel back on the putting greens, the switch to Blades has helped my game.

Maybe their are others who will also benefit from a switch. Either way, I felt like something had to change in order for my game to improve. I was was stuck in a rut, and the Blades propelled me over the goal line.

To each his own. I also love the sexy Ferrari looks of the Blades, and since my scores don't limit my income. C'est La Vie. Carpe Diem

Happy Holidays and a Very Merry Christmas, Happy New Year

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Not to sound harsh, but are you honestly looking for advice on which irons are best to play? Because as someone who has followed this thread, it really comes off that you're more so looking for reasons to play the MP5's. If you want to play the MP5's, play them. That should be enough. Patrick65's response more than answered your original question, and he actually did so in a very eloquent way. If you like the look of the MP5's when they are behind the ball, and you have enough confidence to play them, then do it. But it's been said a lot in this thread that there is nothing the XR pros won't do for you and nothing they won't tell you feedback wise. And they simply aren't masking any swing flaws.

If you're looking to shoot better scores and improve, IMO, play the XR pros. If you prefer the look of the blades and just want to play pretty irons, play the MP5's. But with all of the information in this thread it still seems like you're just really looking for stats or something tangible that says "play the blades because they're better". They simply aren't. They are just built for different purposes.
Not looking for approval of which irons to play. Just learning more about golf and the different opinions with regards to how best to improve. My game. Or the game of any 20+ handicapper.

As everyone can agree, golf is an extremely difficult sport. It's one of the reasons why we love it so much. As seen through out this discussion, opinions vary. Often to the opposite sides of a seemingly simple question.

I know how my choices have helped or hurt my game. I have enjoyed learning how other persons choices have improved their game as well. The recent post expressed his or her opinion after 40 years of playing that blades can only ruin a golfers game. I then wondered what should a golfer do. What choices do we have to continue to improve.

One choice, right or wrong, Blades Vs Cavity Back.

What are some other good choices? Replace your irons with hybrids or hybrid irons.

Again everyone will have a unique experience. By sharing I'm learning. And others will as well.

But the choice of continuing to practice and play the same way and expecting a significantly different result, well it just wasn't working for me.

Cheers

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Johan, if you were to split rank advancements in your game between working with an instructor and using the blade how would you do so?

50/50, 60/40?

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Replied above

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For what it's worth, I went down from a 16 index to 9.5 as I moved to less forgiving clubs. I have only been playing for 2.5 years, although I dabbled in it in high school where I played on a semi disorganized recreational team, and also 5-6 times a year with my dad. I really don't count that as experience and only in the last 2.5 years where I got out 1-2 times per week and rarely miss a single week without playing at least one round. I also go to the driving range almost every other day after work to hit 60 - 105 balls. In this 2.5 years of seriously dedicating myself to getting better, I have worked with two different instructors. Currently with an instructor at Golftec (which I highly recommend) and have been working on the mechanics of my swing with regular checkups every 2-3 months.

I started out with a set of Ping G25's GI irons. They were great, but I never liked chunky clubs and have always thought that I had to get them as a "beginner". If I kept them, I think I would have gotten better sooner as it was more forgiving off the turf and I had more "consistent" distance on mishits. With blades or even players cavities, off center hits can lose 10-20+ yards. I think this is where GI irons has the reputation of making you better. Losing only 3-5 yards on mishits puts you closer to the hole or even on the green with long putts. The higher bounce will get you a little more out of your fat shots or thin ones low on the face. It makes the game more "fun" and for most weekend golfers, fun is key as lower scores make you feel better.

For me, fun is playing a set of clubs that inspires confidence or looks good by the ball. When I go to the PGA Super Store and pick up a set of GIs or mid game improvement irons like the Apex, RSI, or Vapor Fly, I hit it like an idiot because the thick top line plays games with my head. It's the opposite to what most people think as the thicker the top line usually gives more confidence. When I do strike it well, it's 1 to 2 clubs longer than what I currently play. I don't want to hit my 7 iron 180 yds. I want true lofts and a consistent ball flight. I like carrying my 7 iron 160 yds and everything above and below should be in 10 yd increments. That works on any of the courses I play and don't have a big ego to need to play off the tips. I've built a consistent swing, still need more consistency on striking center, but that will come with time and practice. If I slice, hook, shank, or top a ball, no GI set will make that go away. Only lessons and practice will correct that. GI will only help on the good swings that are not perfect.

I played 6 months as a 16-20 hcp with my G25's -> switched to Mizuno MP-59's TI muscle for about one year and dropped to 13-15 hcp -> Then switched to my current set, MP-15's TI muscle for the past year due to its looks and supposed 10% more forgiveness in a compact players irons. HCP down to about 9.5-11 in the past year. They were all custom fitted except for the G25's which were straight off the shelf black dot. The MP-59 fitted at a big-box store and the MP-15's done in a 2 hour session at one of the top 100 club fitters in the country. During the fitting, it came down to the MP-15's and Taylor Made TP MBs (blade) and I actually hit the blades a little better. Came down to the Mizuno's because I saved a lot more money due to the shaft being a no cost upgrade compared to TM's up charge. With the recent introduction of the MP-5's, my mouth started watering and I know wanted them. Tried it multiple times at the store with different shaft combinations and they just look and "feel" nice. The sound it makes on pure shots and the feedback on mishits. It's like getting a shock to your system when you hit it off the toe, heel, or just slightly off. You see it in the ball flight, distance, and it penalizes you. I don't mind that and actually welcome it. It motivates me to practice practice practice!! I have a 4-PW set on order basically with the same fitting stats from my MP-15's. At address they both have the same top line, head shape, and size, but from behind the MP-5's looks edible. It's a no cost playability transition for me, other than my wallet. Probably less forgiving compared the TI muscle / cavity back, but I'll work on it some more.

So play what motivates you to continue playing the game and what makes you feel good. I play it based on looks and "feel" which is the sound it makes and feedback. I don't play blades because I claim to know how to work the ball like a pro. I can draw the ball, but till this day, I can barely fade it. I've been able to draw and hit high and low shots even on my G25's with lessons. I'm looking forward to the new year and can't wait for my MP-5's to arrive. I know I will play better with it due to the excitement its generating. Golf is 60% mental, the rest is practice, mechanics, and your athletic aptitude.
 
Not to sound harsh, but are you honestly looking for advice on which irons are best to play? Because as someone who has followed this thread, it really comes off that you're more so looking for reasons to play the MP5's. If you want to play the MP5's, play them. That should be enough. Patrick65's response more than answered your original question, and he actually did so in a very eloquent way. If you like the look of the MP5's when they are behind the ball, and you have enough confidence to play them, then do it. But it's been said a lot in this thread that there is nothing the XR pros won't do for you and nothing they won't tell you feedback wise. And they simply aren't masking any swing flaws.

If you're looking to shoot better scores and improve, IMO, play the XR pros. If you prefer the look of the blades and just want to play pretty irons, play the MP5's. But with all of the information in this thread it still seems like you're just really looking for stats or something tangible that says "play the blades because they're better". They simply aren't. They are just built for different purposes.

Great post. I agree with everything you said here. CBs or GIs aren't masking any flaws just improving the results on mishits.
 
I wouldn't hesitate to try cavity back wedges if they offered the same multiple grind options that Edel and Vokey blade wedges do.

The reality is, they don't.
 
Okay, first tournament over. Shot a 109 from the whites with a course rating of 68.3 , slope 125. Par 71. 6000 yards.

Using the XR Pro's.

Next stop MP5'S on Saturday. Par 72 course. Also white tee's. Similar slope and course rating.

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Okay, first tournament over. Shot a 109 from the whites with a course rating of 68.3 , slope 125. Par 71. 6000 yards.

Using the XR Pro's.

Next stop MP5'S on Saturday. Par 72 course. Also white tee's. Similar slope and course rating.

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What part of your game was off? Or was it a combined effort haha
 
Chipping and putting. ..

The iron play was great for me. Hit all the par three's.

170 yard 6 iron.

Straight to slight fade. No hooks. My swing flaw.

Putting so so.

Chipping. Horrible.

Missing the green short or long from inside 50 yards.

So full swing working.

Partial swings. Not even close to the green. Forget about the pin.

Lol

But for my handicap I am not surprised.

The Blades made the iron play sharper. But I'm not sure if I would have done as well without the added forgiveness on mishits. Which of course I hit. But they were on or close to the greens to save boogie.

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Chipping and putting. ..

The iron play was great for me. Hit all the par three's.

170 yard 6 iron.

Straight to slight fade. No hooks. My swing flaw.

Putting so so.

Chipping. Horrible.

Missing the green short or long from inside 50 yards.

So full swing working.

Partial swings. Not even close to the green. Forget about the pin.

Lol

But for my handicap I am not surprised.

The Blades made the iron play sharper. But I'm not sure if I would have done as well without the added forgiveness on mishits. Which of course I hit. But they were on or close to the greens to save boogie.

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The good thing about your commitment to solid and improved iron striking is that it can be directly applied to your wedge game. The same principles apply and solid contact is key, you just need to spend the time to dial them in. This will knock significant strokes from your round. DO IT!
 
Took the Blades out for a spin today.

Shot a 96. White tee's. 69.5/121 R/Slope.

Actually. The MP5'S don't feel or play like blade. They just feel like a nice solid Iron. More forgiving than I expected. More than enough for my game.

But to be completely honest, I replaced the 4,5,6 irons with the XR Pro's.

It was actually a very nice combination. The gaps were precise. I only miss one green on a par three hole. I pulled my shot but it landed 12 inches onto the fringe, so an easy chip and put for par.

The MP5'S might have actually achieved that incredible feat of making a Cavity Back/ Blade looking iron.

Others with more experience can chime in. But I did feel any loss, for feeling I was leaving something on the table by not carrying a SGI iron set in the bag.

Let it's been said. Play what ever clubs move you. But after just a few weeks, less than a month, the MP5'S have kicked the XR Pro's out of the bag with the mid to short irons any way.

I have a funny feeling that the upward climb to 4, 5, 6 iron making it into the bag isn't far off.

I have tested and played other blades before. But the Mizuno MP-5'S are really something special which have checked off a lot of boxes and shine like super stars.



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BTW just for complete disclosure. This was a legit score. No gimmies or foot wedges were engaged. Ever putt until the ball was in the hole.

My chipping while not to within 12 inches was consistently within 5 to 10 feet.

Now as far as my putting goes. I was three and 4 putting all day. I shot a few pars but only because the hole kept getting in the way of a missed putt. Kidding of course.

My Achilles heel is the flat stick. If I just get down to three putting I could shave off 10 strokes.

So. Off to putt putt land. Eat sleep and Dream putting. I am a great putter is my mantra.


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Took the Blades out for a spin today.

Shot a 96. White tee's. 69.5/121 R/Slope.

Actually. The MP5'S don't feel or play like blade. They just feel like a nice solid Iron. More forgiving than I expected. More than enough for my game.

But to be completely honest, I replaced the 4,5,6 irons with the XR Pro's.

It was actually a very nice combination. The gaps were precise. I only miss one green on a par three hole. I pulled my shot but it landed 12 inches onto the fringe, so an easy chip and put for par.

The MP5'S might have actually achieved that incredible feat of making a Cavity Back/ Blade looking iron.

Others with more experience can chime in. But I did feel any loss, for feeling I was leaving something on the table by not carrying a SGI iron set in the bag.

Let it's been said. Play what ever clubs move you. But after just a few weeks, less than a month, the MP5'S have kicked the XR Pro's out of the bag with the mid to short irons any way.

I have a funny feeling that the upward climb to 4, 5, 6 iron making it into the bag isn't far off.

I have tested and played other blades before. But the Mizuno MP-5'S are really something special which have checked off a lot of boxes and shine like super stars.



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Are you going to practice and learn with the 4, 5, & 6? You know, to help force you to learn a better swing?
 
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