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Driver distance < 5 wood what's going on? confused

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DocShank

DocShank

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Hi guys,

I'm totally confused after today's range session.:banghead:
First of all, I've never been able to hit my Driver consistently. As a result, I went through the full fitting process and they recommended me the Titleist 917 driver 60g xstiff Diamana D+ combo.

Well, I went for it (915 version), and now a few months later it seems to be a total waste of money. Last week, I bought a Titleist 915F 5 wood with an 70g Diamana S+ stiff off ebay and I'm hitting it so much more consistently and even farther than my driver. 5 out of 15 balls landed around 220 yards on an uphill driving range with range balls! That's huge for me so I couldn't believe it in the first place but my measurements seemed to be correct.

As a comparison, my driver only goes around 220-30y on the same driving range, if hit perfectly, which never happens. As a comparison, my old Cobra amp cell 3W 15° maxes out at around 220.

I'm basically hitting golf clubs with 18°,15° and 10° the same distance???
The pro told my to look for a tip stiff shaft due to my harsh transition and higher swing speed. In theory 2 of 3 club/shaft combos (5W+Diamana S+,3W+ Fujikura Fuel stiff made for cobra, do not even fit into this category.)
My ball flight is pretty much of medium height with all these clubs and shafts.

thanks guys!

advice highly appreciated:D
 
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From what I understand the 917 is not quite the same as the 915 and so getting fit forn one but buying the other may or may not be so correct.

But honestly, this sounds (and who am I to be giving swing advice) but sounds much more like a lesson/swing issue with the driver is on order. Im going to assume you need more a swing fix than a club fix. At least for while your hitting it far shorter than your fairway woods. Id suggest look to repair the swing, then after that worry more about fine tuning in the club. But that's just imo and considering your unable to hit the thing much at all right now. Imo cant really tune a club to a swing that needs to be fixed first. You can tweak a club to a swing of course but if that swing is way off a club wont fix it.
 
Range balls aren't worth a lot for predicting distance on the course.

How does the extra stiff Diamana D+ whiteboard feel? That's something Adam Scott would play and is intended for 106 MPH+ swing speeds! The 915D3 is their more player's oriented driver, 915D2 is more for the masses. Are you hitting big fades with this combo? The driver is fade biased and the shaft is super stiff.

My real world distance with the 915D2 and regular flex Diamana S+ Blueboard is rolling out to about 230-240 on a really good hit with an average of 220-225.

Dave
 
thanks for your help Dave.
It really might come down to the different swings/attack angle one has to apply. Maybe it has something to do with the downward strike (FW) vs. striking it on the up with the driver. I'm hitting my irons pretty decently,taking a nice divot, so my swing with the irons and FWs may be ok...
Swing mechanics seems to be the right call. What intrigues me the most is, why does my ball flight stay the same with all these different clubs and shafts?
3W=5W distance wise aswell.

unfortunately my yardages where measured all with range balls... but I'm in the same ballpark with the driver
 
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dthrog00 said:
Range balls aren't worth a lot for predicting distance on the course.

How does the extra stiff Diamana D+ whiteboard feel? That's something Adam Scott would play and is intended for 106 MPH+ swing speeds! The 915D3 is their more player's oriented driver, 915D2 is more for the masses. Are you hitting big fades with this combo? The driver is fade biased and the shaft is super stiff.

My real world distance with the 915D2 and regular flex Diamana S+ Blueboard is rolling out to about 230-240 on a really good hit with an average of 220-225.

Dave
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That's exactly my biggest concern! I'm playing the 60g xstiff Diamana D+ and it feels fine to my understanding. Maybe it's not as harsh as the 70g or tour version?
The ball flight looks pretty much the same compared to my S+/Fuel fairway woods. but I'm lacking distance. My main misses are definitely right but I also got the hooks going. Even when I hit it nicely and manage to draw the ball it often lacks an tremendous amount of distance.

According to my pro, my swing speed is around the 100-105mph mark and my transition is very harsh.
 
I would bet it has more to do with strike and launch angle/angle of attack more than anything. The 5 wood swing speed will not be that much less than the driver but will launch way higher keeping the ball in the air longer.
 
hedley_lamarr08 said:
I would bet it has more to do with strike and launch angle/angle of attack more than anything. The 5 wood swing speed will not be that much less than the driver but will launch way higher keeping the ball in the air longer.
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thanks for your reply. The thing is I have pretty much a medium launch even with the driver. It just lacks distance somehow. Launch looks fine to my understanding but for some reason it falls short. I'm talking about the good ones.Even the good ones don't go out there:)Consistency is my biggest issue with the the driver anyway, no doubt.

Is it possible that the D3 head paired with the Diamana White shaft lowers the spin too drastically for my swing?
 
Just a guess but the first thing that stands out to me is that shaft is more than likely too stiff for your swing. I agree you probably need a shaft that accounts for your aggressive transition I doubt that a Xstiff would be it. At those Driver distances I would guess a stiff flex at best. I'm not a fitter just a weekend hack. I would say it may be due to spin issues.
 
aklawitter said:
do you have actual launch numbers?
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Yes.the launch was around 11.6-8°. not sure exactly. fitted for the 917 d3 driver.
Unfortunately I've bought the 915 D3 as a result of the fitting:banghead:
 
DocShank said:
thanks for your reply. The thing is I have pretty much a medium launch even with the driver. It just lacks distance somehow. Launch looks fine to my understanding but for some reason it falls short. I'm talking about the good ones.Even the good ones don't go out there:)Consistency is my biggest issue with the the driver anyway, no doubt.

Is it possible that the D3 head paired with the Diamana White shaft lowers the spin too drastically for my swing?
Click to expand...

I'm not a guy that believes a huge amount in shafts having a standard spin or expected rate for all players. I personally believe that shafts for the most part are a huge part of feel, but that's just my OPINION. =) Sometimes I think we get lost in the equipment when its a swing issue itself. I have done all I can as far as my swing and will be changing irons soon because I can't get the ball to stop at all. A lot of guys play my irons with great success.

If I was going to give any advice for you with your driver, raise your loft. 10 degrees may not be enough. Each swing speed has an "optimal" spin rate and launch angle. Usually the loft is the biggest culprit. Crank it two degrees. (Titleist is a product I'm not familiar with, but raise it and see what happens.
 
DB86 said:
Just a guess but the first thing that stands out to me is that shaft is more than likely too stiff for your swing. I agree you probably need a shaft that accounts for your aggressive transition I doubt that a Xstiff would be it. At those Driver distances I would guess a stiff flex at best. I'm not a fitter just a weekend hack. I would say it may be due to spin issues.
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thanks. I appreciate it. According to the Mitsubishi website ,I'm exactly between stiff and xstiff in the 60g version D+. Stiff would have been the wiser choice no doubt^^. Maybe the low spinning 8.5° (adjusted to 10°) D3 head is bringing the spin down too much for my in between swing speed.
 
hedley_lamarr08 said:
I'm not a guy that believes a huge amount in shafts having a standard spin or expected rate for all players. I personally believe that shafts for the most part are a huge part of feel, but that's just my OPINION. =) Sometimes I think we get lost in the equipment when its a swing issue itself. I have done all I can as far as my swing and will be changing irons soon because I can't get the ball to stop at all. A lot of guys play my irons with great success.

If I was going to give any advice for you with your driver, raise your loft. 10 degrees may not be enough. Each swing speed has an "optimal" spin rate and launch angle. Usually the loft is the biggest culprit. Crank it two degrees. (Titleist is a product I'm not familiar with, but raise it and see what happens.
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hey thanks for all the help. I'm not a shaft guy either. Unfortunately,in this case, I listened to my pro:D. He talked me into this whole thing by mentioning the need for a lower shaft torque in order to deal with my harsh transition. The S+ in the fairway wood felt really nice and it may have been the right choice paired with the D3 head. The problem is, I'm not able to raise the loft above 10°. Standard is 8.5° and the maximum loft increase is 1.5°. Maybe I'm hitting down on it too much and therefore 12° or something in the ballpark,could have been the perfect loft for me. launch is around 11.6° @10°
 
DocShank said:
hey thanks for all the help. I'm not a shaft guy either. Unfortunately,in this case, I listened to my pro:D. He talked me into this whole thing by mentioning the need for a lower shaft torque in order to deal with my harsh transition. The S+ in the fairway wood felt really nice and it may have been the right choice paired with the D3 head. The problem is, I'm not able to raise the loft above 10°. Standard is 8.5° and the maximum loft increase is 1.5°. Maybe I'm hitting down on it too much and therefore 12° or something in the ballpark,could have been the perfect loft for me. launch is around 11.6° @10°
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I would bet that is the problem. Only time I ever go below 10.5 is when its been 90 degrees and really dry for a few days here. Other than that I live at 10.5 or 11.5. Maybe tee the ball higher and just a little bit further forward. Other than that I'm kinda at a loss to help you. Good luck.
 
Driver distance &lt; 5 wood what's going on? confused

Driver distance &lt; 5 wood what's going on? confused

DocShank said:
thanks. I appreciate it. According to the Mitsubishi website ,I'm exactly between stiff and xstiff in the 60g version D+. Stiff would have been the wiser choice no doubt^^. Maybe the low spinning 8.5° (adjusted to 10°) D3 head is bringing the spin down too much for my in between swing speed.
Click to expand...

What does the ball flight look like to you with the driver. Does it seem to go so far and fall out of the air like a rock or does it go out so far and balloon up, or something sort of in the middle?

I would go somewhere and see what the spin numbers look like on a monitor.

Also I have always played regular flex in my clubs except for my Driver. Played a stiff flex in it. My Driver distance is about the same as yours. I switched down to a regular flex in my Driver and wouldn't go back. My swing speed is typically in the low 90s. I know SS isn't the only factor but just throwing that out there.
 
At that swing speed, you need more launch. Does it look like the ball climbs through flight, or does it look like it starts dropping out of the sky way too soon? If it isn't climbing, or atleast maintaining the launch angle, you're probably not getting enough spin. That 8.5 d3 head is more likely the reason why. A 10.5 d2 would be a better fit imo.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 
First of all, as soon as you changed the head, all bets are off. As any fitter worth their salt will tell you the whole fitting process is about getting a matched pair and all the setting optimized. A few months ago GolfWRX sent six golfers who owned Titleist 915 drivers to Titleist's Center in Oceanside to be fitted by Titleist Master Fitters. You can read about it here: http://www.golfwrx.com/406976/917-vs-915-results-from-the-ultimate-titleist-driver-fitting-experience/ Just look at all the differences they made when going from one head to the other.
 
hitting 5w really well and fwiw 3w pretty good too. I think obvious (and assume you'd agree) simply missing the sweatspot and/or are doing something (via the swing) where your smash factor is way down with the driver like spending your stored energy too soon or too late instead of at contact. The whole thing could just be a timing issue for you when swinging driver. I just think and feel (with what your describing) its still much more a swing problem and possibly a bit too much for the shaft/club to fix just by changing things. I say that because I your not just a tad off here when your 5w is performing as good/better than driver. That's too significant imo to be fixed with club/shaft tweak, no?
Not meaning to be insistent but just trying to help, and fwiw also eventually gain something from this myself.

Also fwiw (and you may or not already know this) but you mentioned torque and that (if you didn't already know) is not what flex is. We can have stiffer and softer flexes yet with different amounts of torque.
 
I had a similar problem but with a 3 wood vs driver. What the problem for me was the driver length. I started choking down on the club and I hit it farther and straighter than I did when gripping it at the end of the club. I compared my new driver to my old one (which I hit just fine) and then new one was over an inch longer. So that is why I tried choking down and it worked.
 
kevin81002 said:
At that swing speed, you need more launch. Does it look like the ball climbs through flight, or does it look like it starts dropping out of the sky way too soon? If it isn't climbing, or atleast maintaining the launch angle, you're probably not getting enough spin. That 8.5 d3 head is more likely the reason why. A 10.5 d2 would be a better fit imo.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
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thanks kevin.
completely agree... but I felt intimidated of the larger D2 head
biggrin.png


In my view, the ball is climbing fairly steadily but in the latter part of the flight it looks like it stops going forward. Just my observastion. I'm not sure if that's really the case.
 
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leftshot said:
First of all, as soon as you changed the head, all bets are off. As any fitter worth their salt will tell you the whole fitting process is about getting a matched pair and all the setting optimized. A few months ago GolfWRX sent six golfers who owned Titleist 915 drivers to Titleist's Center in Oceanside to be fitted by Titleist Master Fitters. You can read about it here: https://www.golfwrx.com/406976/917-...e-ultimate-titleist-driver-fitting-experience/ Just look at all the differences they made when going from one head to the other.
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thanks for the link. I've now read the full article and quite a few of the testers went up in loft and SW. This got me into reconsidering the overall setup of the club. With the 60g Diamana shaft and the red surefit weight (9gr) it seems that the SW got changed quite a bit compared to the (standard) 70g Titleist shaft offerings.
 
rollin said:
hitting 5w really well and fwiw 3w pretty good too. I think obvious (and assume you'd agree) simply missing the sweatspot and/or are doing something (via the swing) where your smash factor is way down with the driver like spending your stored energy too soon or too late instead of at contact. The whole thing could just be a timing issue for you when swinging driver. I just think and feel (with what your describing) its still much more a swing problem and possibly a bit too much for the shaft/club to fix just by changing things. I say that because I your not just a tad off here when your 5w is performing as good/better than driver. That's too significant imo to be fixed with club/shaft tweak, no?
Not meaning to be insistent but just trying to help, and fwiw also eventually gain something from this myself.

Also fwiw (and you may or not already know this) but you mentioned torque and that (if you didn't already know) is not what flex is. We can have stiffer and softer flexes yet with different amounts of torque.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you. Smash factor certainly is something I have to improve on and personally I feel there's quite a big drop off in efficiency compared to my shorter clubs (FW,hyb, irons). Driver length is 45''.
All of this is adding up more than likely to my inconsistent driver swing. I think that's another very important point.
As I said, what bothers me even more than my faulty swing, which needs to be fixed asap,is that even the good hits don't go a decent distance ompared to my 5W/3W.
 
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also, are you talking about carry distances, or total+roll? are the distances verified on course?
 
DocShank said:
I totally agree with you. Smash factor certainly is something I have to improve on and personally I feel there's quite a big drop off in efficiency compared to my shorter clubs (FW,hyb, irons). Driver length is 45''.
All of this is adding up to my more than likely inconsistent driver swing. I think that's another very important point.
As I said, what bothers me even more than my faulty swing, which needs to be fixed asap,is that even the good hits don't go a decent distance ompared to my 5W/3W.
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I understand what you mean but its sort of my point. But imo those so called "good hits" are perhaps after all still not good swings. Its interesting to me your pro is not seeing a flaw but instead talking shafts. I totally get that a poor setup may not agree with a player but imo I think its rare that the set up is bad enough to cause ones driver to not play any better than 5w distance wise even on what your thinking are your best hits. I could be wrong and I won't hop on the point anymore (and forgive me for that) but when Ive gone through driver shaft fittings even the worst combos wouldn't result in my "best" driver shots not being any longer than 5w. It would result in not having as many "best" shots and also with more average dispersion but when a "best" shot was put on the ball it would always be further than 5w. I could be wrong and I hope you get it figured out but Id hate for you to spend time/efforts into the shaft when the issue seems to me to possibly be more the swing. Honestly I hope I am wrong because then if you find the right combo your issue is solved. I think an opinion/lesson from a different instructor of whom you can explain what going on and also see you swing may be worthwhile.
 
DocShank said:
Hi guys,


My ball flight is pretty much of medium height with all these clubs and shafts.



advice highly appreciated:D
Click to expand...

This leaves me wondering about your ball placement and tee heights
 
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