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Shooting at a military recruitment center in Chattanooga

Paladin said:
As a general rule, military servicemembers do not carry weapons while stateside in uniform. There's legal precedent, specifically the Posse Comitatus Act, prohibiting military in uniform from exercising "law & order" type activities on non-federal land. Further, most of us live & work on federal property (obviously recruiters are an exception) where concealed carry is illegal, and open carry is generally limited to specific circumstances (weapons immersion, field exercises, range days).

While there's a case to be made that a military service member has the requisite training and experience to carry a weapon while in uniform for self-defense, it would be a legal nightmare should he ever have to use it while in uniform, and probably a worse legal nightmare if it were a privately owned firearm that was used.

None of that is a comfort to the families of those affected by this and other shootings at recruiting stations, obviously. I feel awful that this sort of thing continues to happen, and I do wish that there was a middle ground. Perhaps this could have been discouraged had it not taken place at a location where everyone is prohibited from carrying (ie a gun-free zone), but that's a topic for another date and another forum.
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I understand the legalities of it.

Unfortunately, so does ISIS and their minions...directly ordered or not.

It's absurd and in these times they are sitting ducks.
 
Paladin said:
***and I do wish that there was a middle ground. Perhaps this could have been discouraged had it not taken place at a location where everyone is prohibited from carrying (ie a gun-free zone), but that's a topic for another date and another forum.
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Perhaps the answer is something as unpopular as doing whatever needs to be done to get on with killing all the ISIS members we can find in the ME and actively reducing the size of their land, thereby eliminating their claims to being a caliphate, which is the predicate to them being able to successfully recruit other members.

EDIT: Assuming this turns out to be a terrorist attack and is tied to ISIS.
 
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If this turns out like some are expecting, based on some social media things, and there is a connection to ISIS (and I have no idea if that is the case), then enough is enough administration. Do what needs to be done, because the training of a few dozen isnt going to accomplish it. Cowards act this way, but with no or limited recourse, what is the penalty?

Its sad that it takes something disgusting like this act to bring people together, but if that is what it takes to level a hatred, perhaps this is what does it. Bring on leadership (whoever it is or will be) that will level the playing field and not worry about the political ramifications. Im tired of seeing our brothers and sisters needlessly lose their lives.
 
Shooting at a military recruitment center in Chattanooga

This hurts deep that this has happened on our turf and to a group who had no chance at fighting back because they are home.

If this turns out to have any connection to a terrorist organization. Then It's long past due that we wipe the world clean of these scum. No more tip toeing, no more playing fair by the Geneva convention! Break out the big guns and send every special force team available at them with one mission and one mission only take no prisoners. And anyone caught trying to join or communicate with these scum shall be dealt with the same wether citizen or foreign government.


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Don't worry. They'll discover he's never been to an overseas training camp and therefore not an official ISIS member so it'll be pushed to the side.

Somewhat ironic this would occur day after the concessions to Iran in the nuclear pact.
 
The thing is, he may have never been directly affiliated with ISIS, but he's carried out exactly what they've asked. I did a quick Google search on ISIS planning attacks on US military at home and you find dozens of articles dating back a year discussing the threats they were making.

This isn't at all shocking, but what is shocking is that it doesn't occur more often while we sit back and take our current position.

It's damn disgusting.
 
Tomorrow is the final day of Ramadan.
 
Unfortunately, I have no faith that the label "domestic" (or otherwise) terrorism will stay. The administration will find a way to make the local authorities walk it back to something akin to "hate crime". Anything else and it disturbs the narrative and somebody's legacy. So very pi$$ed right now. Semper Fi brothers, God's speed to you and prayers to your families.

JM
 
This is terrible! I wish we could drop a few daisy makers on those isis Basta*ds!
 
IndianBird said:
The thing is, he may have never been directly affiliated with ISIS, but he's carried out exactly what they've asked. I did a quick Google search on ISIS planning attacks on US military at home and you find dozens of articles dating back a year discussing the threats they were making.

This isn't at all shocking, but what is shocking is that it doesn't occur more often while we sit back and take our current position.

It's damn disgusting.
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Other than attacking ISIS in Syria and Iraq, what should be done? The other side of that, will a complete leveling of ISIS make the threat go away?
 
blugold said:
Other than attacking ISIS in Syria and Iraq, what should be done? The other side of that, will a complete leveling of ISIS make the threat go away?
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We should instead offer them over for tea and crumpets, despite multiple killings of Americans.
 
JB said:
We should instead offer them over for tea and crumpets, despite multiple killings of Americans.
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If I remember right, Obama prefers beers on the patio with his opposition. Maybe the Joints Chiefs should throw a kegger and invite Isis leadership.
 
I miss the America that stood up for its values and freedom. This politically correct America is just a giant target for organizations like ISIS
 
Horrible. RIP Brothers. Semper Fi.
 
PhillyV said:
I miss the America that stood up for its values and freedom. This politically correct America is just a giant target for organizations like ISIS
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Agreed there.
 
It's a sad day for America. We lost 4 young men, the ripple of that loss is long reaching. But it makes me sad that the countries reaction this is so minimal in comparison the the killing in Charleston. And we don't see the POTUS jumping in. He just reaches out to the DOD and tells them tighten your security posture. Wow
 
blugold said:
Other than attacking ISIS in Syria and Iraq, what should be done? The other side of that, will a complete leveling of ISIS make the threat go away?
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Maybe when they say they are going to and want others to join in on attacks against the US MILITARY inside the US, we go ahead and trust our soldiers to handle a weapon inside a recruiting office.

Instead of just offering that friendly reminder to be "vigilant."
 
blugold said:
Other than attacking ISIS in Syria and Iraq, what should be done? The other side of that, will a complete leveling of ISIS make the threat go away?
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Yes, it would, or at least greatly diminish the threat from ISIS. Do a google search - you'll read an article or two explaining the specific slant ISIS is taking w/in Islam and how that enables them to keep growing. Short-ish version: they claim to be a caliphate (other Muslims disagree) and there's a branch (?) in Islam that believes every Muslim is MANDATED to join the fight if a legitimate caliphate exists. A caliphate cannot exist without controlling territory. (I think this line of Islam also says they have to be continuously at war and continuously expanding). So if you shrink the size of their territory or eliminate their ability to claim they have a "homeland" then you eliminate the alleged Islamic mandate for others to join.

To be fair, the contrarian POV is that they WANT the US to fight them because it emboldens their need to constantly be at war, it plays into the specific version of Islam they are espousing, etc.

Just to be clear, not all Muslims agree with ISIS' view of Islam, which why you see other countries in the region calling them illegitimate, etc. But it's ISIS' view and a big part of how they are growing so radically.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Yes, it would, or at least greatly diminish the threat from ISIS. Do a google search - you'll read an article or two explaining the specific slant ISIS is taking w/in Islam and how that enables them to keep growing. Short-ish version: they claim to be a caliphate (other Muslims disagree) and there's a branch (?) in Islam that believes every Muslim is MANDATED to join the fight if a legitimate caliphate exists. A caliphate cannot exist without controlling territory. (I think this line of Islam also says they have to be continuously at war and continuously expanding). So if you shrink the size of their territory or eliminate their ability to claim they have a "homeland" then you eliminate the alleged Islamic mandate for others to join.

To be fair, the contrarian POV is that they WANT the US to fight them because it emboldens their need to constantly be at war, it plays into the specific version of Islam they are espousing, etc.

Just to be clear, not all Muslims agree with ISIS' view of Islam, which why you see other countries in the region calling them illegitimate, etc. But it's ISIS' view and a big part of how they are growing so radically.
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Good post. I will not Google Isis anything. I don't need the NSA looking into my browser history.

I am not defending Isis in any fashion. The hard question I have, if we eradicate Isis from the earth, will that eliminate Islamic extremists? If they all die, will likewise weakminded people just throw up their hands and say, "that's it, we lost." I don't think they will. It is painfully obvious that I don't have an answer how to effectively end the threat of religion based terrorists. But I don't think they will ever really give up.
 
We are the biggest and baddest on the block, round up the special forces and wipe these idiots off the map. Time for diplomacy is long gone. Time to fight fire with fire.
 
blugold said:
Good post. I will not Google Isis anything. I don't need the NSA looking into my browser history.

I am not defending Isis in any fashion. The hard question I have, if we eradicate Isis from the earth, will that eliminate Islamic extremists? If they all die, will likewise weakminded people just throw up their hands and say, "that's it, we lost." I don't think they will. It is painfully obvious that I don't have an answer how to effectively end the threat of religion based terrorists. But I don't think they will ever really give up.
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Of course not. Its like saying if we deport all of the undocumented, will we no longer have an issue. Or arrest every drug dealer, do drugs go away. No, bad people exist and that wont change. That does not mean we should not continue to do the things above because "whoa is me, they keep happening". Eliminating ISIS as a group that kills Americans, threatens to continue to kill our citizens and for that they should be elimated.

Im not sure how anybody could think otherwise. After 9/11 should we have sat down with the group, because elimating Osama Bin laden and his group would not eliminate all extremists? Of course not, that is ridiculous.
 
PhillyV said:
I miss the America that stood up for its values and freedom. This politically correct America is just a giant target for organizations like ISIS
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Call me sexist if you want, but what's going to happen if we elect a female to run this country? You know, they are so well respected in the very countries and terrorist groups that are gunning for us.
 
PhillyV said:
I miss the America that stood up for its values and freedom. This politically correct America is just a giant target for organizations like ISIS
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Being PC gives people a warm fuzzy while allowing our enemies to give us the shaft.

blugold said:
Other than attacking ISIS in Syria and Iraq, what should be done? The other side of that, will a complete leveling of ISIS make the threat go away?
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In the long term? No. As long as there are people both around the world and here at home that hate us and our way of life there will always be a threat. However, that should not keep America from hunting down and eliminating all threats both foreign and domestic.
 
JB said:
Of course not. Its like saying if we deport all of the undocumented, will we no longer have an issue. Or arrest every drug dealer, do drugs go away. No, bad people exist and that wont change. That does not mean we should not continue to do the things above because "whoa is me, they keep happening". Eliminating ISIS as a group that kills Americans, threatens to continue to kill our citizens and for that they should be elimated.

Im not sure how anybody could think otherwise. After 9/11 should we have sat down with the group, because elimating Osama Bin laden and his group would not eliminate all extremists? Of course not, that is ridiculous.
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I can get with that idea. Just with the full understanding that when Isis no longer exists, there will just be another group of asshats that will need to be squashed.
 
blugold said:
I can get with that idea. Just with the full understanding that when Isis no longer exists, there will just be another group of asshats that will need to be squashed.
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And then it's their turn. Just because weeds and dandelions grow in your yard every spring doesn't mean you stop killing them every spring. Just means you load up with more weapons every winter
 
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