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Comparative Distance: Irons vs. Drivers/Woods

SuperStroke
bigskyirish said:
The last point is the one I keep batting around in my head. There's a big part of me that says one of the reasons I've been playing so much better this year is that I've been keeping my driver in play. So I'm not all that inclined to mess with my swing. But there's also a part of me that says the driver is a big part of why those guys are + handicaps--they hit wedges into greens where I might hit a 7 or 8 iron with my best drive. All in all, I think it's a combination of the things everyone mentioned. I make decent contact with my driver, but I definitely don't hit it dead center anywhere near as often as a + handicap; fitting could be an issue--I've never had a true driver fitting and there isn't a Trackman or Flightscope to be found where I live; and there's undoubtedly swing issues that make my SS with a driver substantially lower than a + handicap. Since the best I could do fitting wise is a simulator at a local shop (which serves it's purpose, but just isn't the same as a really good fitting, in my opinion) and I'm playing well enough that I'm leery of making big swing changes, I think I'm going to try to focus on two things: (1) spending time at the range--instead of just playing--to work on consistently making center contact; and (2) starting a workout program focused on developing muscles and flexibility that will aid in SS.
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In regards to swing changes. I believe you do need a different swing to maximize the distance, the launching angle is key. There's a chart out there that shows your potential distance with a given SS. Again, not knowing your swing, there's a likely chance you could get more distance with a positive attack angle without a dramatic change in your current swing.

But I fully agree with practice and conditioning to get more distance the right way.
 
I'm on the opposite side of the coin that you are talking about. I regularly out drive everyone I play with (this doesn't matter though, my short game is atrocious and my handicap reflects that haha) but my short-medium irons are only slightly longer or even with them. For example my 9-iron is a 145-150 club, pretty standard in my group. Same with the 7 165-170. However when we get into 4-iron territory mine goes around 220 and theirs 195-200. Driver is an even bigger gap where mine will be anywhere from 280-300 and their's will be 230-250. These are all with roll-out btw.

The difference I notice is how we approach the longer clubs. wedges through 7-6 iron are nice smooth swings. Anything after that and they continue to keep their smooth swing all the way through driver. For me, I start to go after it and attack the ball and use a much more explosive swing.
 
Wongstongs said:
I'm on the opposite side of the coin that you are talking about. I regularly out drive everyone I play with (this doesn't matter though, my short game is atrocious and my handicap reflects that haha) but my short-medium irons are only slightly longer or even with them. For example my 9-iron is a 145-150 club, pretty standard in my group. Same with the 7 165-170. However when we get into 4-iron territory mine goes around 220 and theirs 195-200. Driver is an even bigger gap where mine will be anywhere from 280-300 and their's will be 230-250. These are all with roll-out btw.

The difference I notice is how we approach the longer clubs. wedges through 7-6 iron are nice smooth swings. Anything after that and they continue to keep their smooth swing all the way through driver. For me, I start to go after it and attack the ball and use a much more explosive swing.
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They drive the ball 230-250 with their 9i being their 150 club? That's.... odd.
 
Floppy said:
They drive the ball 230-250 with their 9i being their 150 club? That's.... odd.
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Yupp! There's about 6 or 7 of my friends that I golf with and they are all pretty similar distance wise. I attribute it to the years of pitch and putt we played together before I really got them into playing full courses. They got really good with the short and mid irons but never really played anything longer than that for a long time.

Edit: forgot to add, like Mango Smash, I also hit my irons very high. That might have something to do with it too.
 
Plin said:
In regards to swing changes. I believe you do need a different swing to maximize the distance, the launching angle is key. There's a chart out there that shows your potential distance with a given SS. Again, not knowing your swing, there's a likely chance you could get more distance with a positive attack angle without a dramatic change in your current swing.

But I fully agree with practice and conditioning to get more distance the right way.
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I agree with you that I probably need to make some sort of swing adjustment to get substantially more distance with my driver. I can't say for sure, but I don't think it's angle of attack. I have a relatively flat swing and don't come in steep with anything (though I've been working on that in my short game some), so I'm almost sure I have a positive angle of attack. My swing does tend to get flatter with longer clubs sometimes though, and I suspect that to really gain distance, I need to get my hands higher to create more leverage and SS. I'm really hesitant on that one though because when I've messed around with it before, I've run into some real problems (think shanks). That said, finding a way to ensure my swing doesn't flatten out with longer clubs more than it does with shorter irons should definitely go on my list.
 
golfinFF said:
Believe it or not there is a larger difference between a +3 to 4 than a 4-11 or 11-18. It's flat out consistency and maximizing each and every swing for distance and accuracy.
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I definitely agree with this. I'm WAY closer to an 11 than I am to a +3.
 
bigskyirish said:
I agree with you that I probably need to make some sort of swing adjustment to get substantially more distance with my driver. I can't say for sure, but I don't think it's angle of attack. I have a relatively flat swing and don't come in steep with anything (though I've been working on that in my short game some), so I'm almost sure I have a positive angle of attack. My swing does tend to get flatter with longer clubs sometimes though, and I suspect that to really gain distance, I need to get my hands higher to create more leverage and SS. I'm really hesitant on that one though because when I've messed around with it before, I've run into some real problems (think shanks). That said, finding a way to ensure my swing doesn't flatten out with longer clubs more than it does with shorter irons should definitely go on my list.
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There's a tremendous difference between a flat angle of attack vs a high positive angle when it comes to driver, accuracy notwithstanding the higher the number of AoA the longer the drive.

This is something to be worked on without a big change in swing or increased SS.

Just some material that might help. Certainly helped me.


Image-9-2-13-at-6.07-PM-2.png


 
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As per the fitter you may be like me. I tend to slow everything down with the driver and 3 wood to try to control it. My 5 iron had a higher club head speed then my driver because I have a mental block about swinging and letting it go where it may since my swing is not dialed in. With my irons I am more comfortable. I am sure that they are at the point with there swing that they just let it go. A miss is a big miss but the misses happen much less.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
 
Plin said:
There's a tremendous difference between a flat angle of attack vs a high positive angle when it comes to driver, accuracy notwithstanding the higher the number of AoA the longer the drive.

This is something to be worked on without a big change in swing or increased SS.

Just some material that might help. Certainly helped me.


Image-9-2-13-at-6.07-PM-2.png


https://youtu.be/MhjQJTS_Uiw
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are you playing golf on an airplane runway? 55y of rollout??? serious question: is that normal for most golfers?
 
It seems to be a common trend here for some of us to not get the distance with the longer clubs. I also use the 9 iron for a 150 club and hit it very consistently. But my Driver is 220- 230 (on real good strikes) with no roll out most of the time (too high a launch angle / too much spin?). I have been checking the Driver face and it seems to be largely a contact issue since I have been rarely hitting it center contact, mostly out on the toe and even with setup changes and trying a lot of different things I still struggle to get in the center.

Looking at the chart with my SS around 100 (last time on a LM) it seems about right, but no roll usually. So could be I am going after the shorter clubs with more effort and backing off on the longer clubs in fear of loosing it left or right. With the left miss getting a lot more distance as would be expected.
 
caeleric said:
are you playing golf on an airplane runway? 55y of rollout??? serious question: is that normal for most golfers?
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I would bet those are calculated rollouts based on the algorithms within the Trackman programing.
 
caeleric said:
are you playing golf on an airplane runway? 55y of rollout??? serious question: is that normal for most golfers?
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There's a separate chart for courses with little run out. Which for example at 105 swing speed and +5 angle, the max total yards was about 287.

edit: found it.

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On the total yards, I found that it's normal roll out for people with slower swing speeds that do not launch it high enough for the total carry. My gf At 75mph SS and about 111 ball speed gets about 150 carry and 206 total and sometimes more when she catches the fairway just right.



trackman-driver.png
 
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Plin said:
There's a tremendous difference between a flat angle of attack vs a high positive angle when it comes to driver, accuracy notwithstanding the higher the number of AoA the longer the drive.

This is something to be worked on without a big change in swing or increased SS.

Just some material that might help. Certainly helped me.


Image-9-2-13-at-6.07-PM-2.png


https://youtu.be/MhjQJTS_Uiw
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That's a really interesting video. I'm going to try to duck out early and hit the range today and give some of that a try. You may be right that my AoA is more like 0 than positive.
 
bigskyirish said:
That's a really interesting video. I'm going to try to duck out early and hit the range today and give some of that a try. You may be right that my AoA is more like 0 than positive.
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Also look into any long drive video, you will see the lean at setup to hit up at the ball. Keep in mind it's very different from swaying away from the ball, which would introduce a host of issues.
 
Plin said:
There's a separate chart for courses with little run out. Which for example at 105 swing speed and +5 angle, the max total yards was about 287.
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ok, that makes a lot more sense to me. playing down here in orlando, we rarely see 55y of roll.
 
For sure, most of my drives stop on contact. But that being said my friend playing the same holes will get at least 15-20 yds. roll so it has to be my swing. I have been teeing it low and making better contact, but after this week off I am going back to teeing it high and trying to hit up on it as suggested.

And I need to find a LM and see what the spin AoA, etc is now. As always it seems when I put the new LZ shaft in I saw some nice gains, but once I settled back in to my normal swing (see bad habits) those went away..

caeleric said:
ok, that makes a lot more sense to me. playing down here in orlando, we rarely see 55y of roll.
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When the spin is too high or the launch angle is too high you won't get any roll out. Sometimes minus 2 yards.

The elusive drive is that long and high with low spin. Usually a right to left or draw for rh players.
 
jim54 said:
For sure, most of my drives stop on contact. But that being said my friend playing the same holes will get at least 15-20 yds. roll so it has to be my swing. I have been teeing it low and making better contact, but after this week off I am going back to teeing it high and trying to hit up on it as suggested.

And I need to find a LM and see what the spin AoA, etc is now. As always it seems when I put the new LZ shaft in I saw some nice gains, but once I settled back in to my normal swing (see bad habits) those went away..
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angle of descent of the ball will play a role in the roll out. The ideal angle is 45*
 
jim54 said:
Looking at the chart with my SS around 100 (last time on a LM) it seems about right, but no roll usually. So could be I am going after the shorter clubs with more effort and backing off on the longer clubs in fear of loosing it left or right. With the left miss getting a lot more distance as would be expected.
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It's probably the case. Go to the range and let the driver rip! Swing as hard as you can and make half decent contact. I bet you'll be able to gain 20-30 yards easy. Once you get used to the speed you can work on hitting the center of the club and accuracy (you already have it, so it won't be hard to adjust).
 
Even high handicappers can bomb their shots. According to that chart, I'm about 95 mph with my driver, and it translates to the rest of my clubs.

The thing that separates the + HC, pros, and tour players from the rest of us is one word: talent.
 
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