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Par 3's - How Long is Too Long?

I don't mind a tough par three. I played a 245 par 3 (second tees from the back) that had a large green, and a hill on the backside. I hit my 16.5 degree wood at it and it was fun.


If you give me a small green over 200 away that's on a postage stamp....zero fun.
 
Johnny mojo said:
If I have to pull 3W or driver it's too long. 190+ is too long for me.

JM
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This ^^^^^^

Anytime I'm having to pull 3-wood, that's just too long a par-3 .... 5-wood OK but anything 230 yards or more is just not in my range anymore.
 
Anything pushing 200 is too long for me, I can hit very few at that distance as that is a hybrid or 3 wood going into it.
 
The 9th hole at a par 59 course I frequent is 204 from the white tees, and it's a big green. I usually don't hit it. I used to occasionally hit it with my old 3 wood in younger days. I hit it a few weeks ago with my driver, but that was the first time in a long time.

That same course also has an 83-yard hole.

Like many others here, I think if you need a driver or 3 wood to get there, it's probably too long.
 
Anything 200 or more is a bit much for me.
 
I draw the line at 240yards. Anything less than that I am ok. I also don't like anything under 160 in length
 
I enjoy having at least one par 3 over 200 yards each round and don't get uncomfortable until they go over about 235 yards.
 
I prefer nothing over 180. I don't find much enjoyment in watching 2 or 3 groups hit into a 190 yd par 3 with trouble around the green. It's always a bottleneck there. I'd be fine playing up to 220 on well run courses where I rarely pull up on the group ahead before they're off the tee. Anything longer and I think it should be reserved for longer tees or tournaments.
 
I really like when distances are all different ok par 3s but when it's over 200 yards it get to my limit, especially with a forced carry.
 
The local course has a nice mixture of distances for the par 3's. From the back tees they are:

222 yards, downhill, sand left and right, big trees both sides that narrow the approach and knock a lot of shots down. The ladies/senior tees drop it down to 150 yard territory. What a difference by taking out the steepness of the drop. I'd call it unfair! Not too many GIR's while watching the low handicappers coming through during tournaments. I'm not a long hitter by any stretch but I remember using driver :D when I first started playing then moved to 3w, felt like a bigshot when I pull a 5w when it was in the bag. I have since settled on a 3h or 4i depending on the wind and body. The nerve wracking part of this hole is you are hitting directly at the parking lot (really close) and it makes you come up short.

170 yards, really downhill, sand front and right, green sloping away. The four tee boxes are in 10 yard increments carved into the steep hill. Anything short and you are screwed.

100 yards, straight uphill, sand front, crowned green, out of bounds long, ravine left. You can just barely see the flag. Only 10 yards seperate all the tee boxes. Not my best hole of the bunch because it's blind and any chip is delicate!

212 yards, straight on, narrow but long green, hit right and ball will funnel in, out of bounds left. From tee box to green is all fairway grass for the ones that like to run them in from the ground. :blob: The women/senior tees drop it to 150 and come in from a little hill on the right side. Weird angle to the green from that tee box so it keeps it real. The 3h has been good to me on this one from the back.

When I am not handicapping I'll tee it up from any of them. I wouldn't want to be hitting at 230+ yard par 3's or I'd be grabbing the driver again and be hoping and praying. The precision would be gone and things could turn sour. I'd would not want to be hitting at 200 yard ones with forced carries either. It's not so much the distance but what is out there to swallow up the ball.
 
I don't mind a par 3 being up to 225ish, unless it is always playing into a strong headwind which could probably mean a driver is needed. I played a 200yd par 3 at the weekend straight into wind and hit a 3W to pin high just off the right side of the green. Personally I thought the hole design was a bit unfair as it was a shallow green from front to back with a severe slope front and left meaning the only safe bail-out was right but that then meant you were chipping from a downhill lie onto a green that sloped away from you

The par 3's at my home course range from 145-220 yards depending on which tees you play from

The longest one (171-220) often has the wind helping slightly off the right but I have hit 5W from the very back, and you can land the ball short and let it feed on if you can avoid the bunkers either side of the green

The shortest one (145-160) can vary depending on the wind and pin position, I have hit everything from 9i to 5i on that hole despite the tee being elevated as it is almost always into whatever wind is blowing that day, but is very tricky to judge as the tee and green are both sheltered

The middle one (160-175) is often played into wind off the left, is slightly uphill to a green where you can't see the putting surface so you need to know your club distances
 
hackitup said:
I prefer nothing over 180. I don't find much enjoyment in watching 2 or 3 groups hit into a 190 yd par 3 with trouble around the green. It's always a bottleneck there. .
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fwiw I never understood this (what I believe to be) misguided thoughts nor why it should even happen and honestly don't think its really any worse than pace delays anywhere else. Firstly its really no different than any longer approach shots on any par4. Missing greens and in trouble or not is the same pace regardless what the par of the hole is and whether its an approach on a 4 or a tee shot on a 3.

The only reason it falsely appears like its different is because when waiting to take an approach from midway through a par4 the group behind has to wait and therefore cannot join you at the spot of your approach. But on a par3 tee box they can join you and so it seems like its a worse delay but in reality its not. Of course there are always (as with anything) some exceptions for different reasons. But generally speaking the delay is really the same.

In fact its often par5's that cause more delays. Reason being is that they mostly require 3 shots in a row and most amateurs cannot make 3 in a row and even struggle to make the first 2 longer shots in a row without failing and so there tends to be a bit more than usual pace setback due to errant play. And also due to having to wait for greens to clear after some better hit tee shots. Either of those two things or combo of them from most any average 4some are common. And also fwiw par5 second shot scenarios are very often as bad and even worse than long par3 tee shot scenarios.

But as said, we often refer to par3's as bottlenecks and imo its usually only because in most other scenarios on most other holes we cannot join the group ahead and yet on a par 3 tee box we can join them and so it gives some false illusion that its somehow some kind of worse delay than any of the other waiting we may do. In reality its really not imo

And on that note , I think allowing hit-ups solves and does absolutely nothing. You know when the group ahead waves up the next group. This accomplishes zero, solves nothing and has no bearing on pace whatsoever. That kind of thing is done often in places where pace problems are bad in general. In those places we wait on most every shot we take and the false illusion of the par3 bottleneck is magnified because instead perhaps a second group at the tee there can 3 groups or whatever. But that (just like I been mentioning) is not any worse nor different vs all the other waiting that's been taking place in that pace problematic round. Only thing different is that you can join groups at the tee instead of waiting in the fairways. And in those bad pace rounds your probably finding a group to wait behind at most tee boxes and so at the par3's there is simply an extra one but again is (relatively speaking) really no different as far as how the rest of the round is going.

Sorry to take this off topic a bit.
 
#4 and #6 at Semlin Valley GC, yes that is a 73 yard difference from the back to the middle tee on #6 (which is also uphill to a blind green)

I thought they were a little long considering EVERYWHERE is staked OB, and every miss is in danger

AnyIVVh.jpg

Dl8eWyI.jpg
 
rollin said:
fwiw I never understood this (what I believe to be) misguided thoughts nor why it should even happen and honestly don't think its really any worse than pace delays anywhere else. Firstly its really no different than any longer approach shots on any par4. Missing greens and in trouble or not is the same pace regardless what the par of the hole is and whether its an approach on a 4 or a tee shot on a 3.

The only reason it falsely appears like its different is because when waiting to take an approach from midway through a par4 the group behind has to wait and therefore cannot join you at the spot of your approach. But on a par3 tee box they can join you and so it seems like its a worse delay but in reality its not. Of course there are always (as with anything) some exceptions for different reasons. But generally speaking the delay is really the same.

In fact its often par5's that cause more delays. Reason being is that they mostly require 3 shots in a row and most amateurs cannot make 3 in a row and even struggle to make the first 2 longer shots in a row without failing and so there tends to be a bit more than usual pace setback due to errant play. And also due to having to wait for greens to clear after some better hit tee shots. Either of those two things or combo of them from most any average 4some are common. And also fwiw par5 second shot scenarios are very often as bad and even worse than long par3 tee shot scenarios.

But as said, we often refer to par3's as bottlenecks and imo its usually only because in most other scenarios on most other holes we cannot join the group ahead and yet on a par 3 tee box we can join them and so it gives some false illusion that its somehow some kind of worse delay than any of the other waiting we may do. In reality its really not imo

And on that note , I think allowing hit-ups solves and does absolutely nothing. You know when the group ahead waves up the next group. This accomplishes zero, solves nothing and has no bearing on pace whatsoever. That kind of thing is done often in places where pace problems are bad in general. In those places we wait on most every shot we take and the false illusion of the par3 bottleneck is magnified because instead perhaps a second group at the tee there can 3 groups or whatever. But that (just like I been mentioning) is not any worse nor different vs all the other waiting that's been taking place in that pace problematic round. Only thing different is that you can join groups at the tee instead of waiting in the fairways. And in those bad pace rounds your probably finding a group to wait behind at most tee boxes and so at the par3's there is simply an extra one but again is (relatively speaking) really no different as far as how the rest of the round is going.

Sorry to take this off topic a bit.
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Hitting up actually saves a lot of time when the majority of players are walking. Especially so on a long par 3 over any sort of hazard where the walk is longer than the hole. A group waves you up and by the time you walk the 200-300 yards they should be done and then you do the same once on the green.
 
Great thread!

I roll my eyes when I see the scorecard say 190 or more for a Par 3. I've never had to hit a 3wood from a Par 3 yet, highest club was a 3 hybrid from a Par 3. On those extra long holes I'm not disappointed if I make bogey. But anything 150 or less I'll be a little annoyed if I don't land on the green to give myself a great chance at par.
 
Tadashi70 said:
I draw the line at 240yards. Anything less than that I am ok. I also don't like anything under 160 in length
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Hey what about those of us who relish walking up to a 125 yard Par 3!! :D
 
Short 3's are fine but they need small greens with trouble, or greens sloping away where only the most accurate shot holds the green. Someone who bunts a 9 iron shouldn't hold the green on a 125 yard hole.
 
I think 200 is the max. Anything over 200 and it is a crapshoot for most amateurs.
 
As a general rule for me, 190 is about max comfort level for a par three anymore. If it's uphill or into a prevailing wind I'll be chipping from maybe 5-10 yards short but I'm an old duffer who has lost a lot of yards. There was a time that I could hit a six iron to a 190 yard hole, now it's a 4 wood or even a driver if it's uphill and/or into the wind.
 
200 is about my limit. I can get there with a 5i or a soft 4i but prefer not to. I like it right around 175-180 and if there's danger, then so be it. Swing away.
 
I think anything over 200 yards is too tough and asking for problems from most players
 
I like to have a mix of different length par 3s. I prefer to have an iron in my hands on a par 3, but every once in a while a FW/Hy shot can be fun.

If they are all like that I need to move up a set of tees or find a new course to play at.
 
rollin said:
fwiw I never understood this (what I believe to be) misguided thoughts nor why it should even happen and honestly don't think its really any worse than pace delays anywhere else. Firstly its really no different than any longer approach shots on any par4. Missing greens and in trouble or not is the same pace regardless what the par of the hole is and whether its an approach on a 4 or a tee shot on a 3.

The only reason it falsely appears like its different is because when waiting to take an approach from midway through a par4 the group behind has to wait and therefore cannot join you at the spot of your approach. But on a par3 tee box they can join you and so it seems like its a worse delay but in reality its not. Of course there are always (as with anything) some exceptions for different reasons. But generally speaking the delay is really the same.

In fact its often par5's that cause more delays. Reason being is that they mostly require 3 shots in a row and most amateurs cannot make 3 in a row and even struggle to make the first 2 longer shots in a row without failing and so there tends to be a bit more than usual pace setback due to errant play. And also due to having to wait for greens to clear after some better hit tee shots. Either of those two things or combo of them from most any average 4some are common. And also fwiw par5 second shot scenarios are very often as bad and even worse than long par3 tee shot scenarios.

But as said, we often refer to par3's as bottlenecks and imo its usually only because in most other scenarios on most other holes we cannot join the group ahead and yet on a par 3 tee box we can join them and so it gives some false illusion that its somehow some kind of worse delay than any of the other waiting we may do. In reality its really not imo

And on that note , I think allowing hit-ups solves and does absolutely nothing. You know when the group ahead waves up the next group. This accomplishes zero, solves nothing and has no bearing on pace whatsoever. That kind of thing is done often in places where pace problems are bad in general. In those places we wait on most every shot we take and the false illusion of the par3 bottleneck is magnified because instead perhaps a second group at the tee there can 3 groups or whatever. But that (just like I been mentioning) is not any worse nor different vs all the other waiting that's been taking place in that pace problematic round. Only thing different is that you can join groups at the tee instead of waiting in the fairways. And in those bad pace rounds your probably finding a group to wait behind at most tee boxes and so at the par3's there is simply an extra one but again is (relatively speaking) really no different as far as how the rest of the round is going.

Sorry to take this off topic a bit.
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Have you seriously played a course where after a 3 it tightened up but after a 5 it loosened up? It is fairly bog standard to have things back up on par 3s and clear up after them a bit and par 5s get the most clear of all as a general rule. Any resemblance between your suggestion and my experience is purely coincidental :)

People finish the entire hole before the next group can tee off. All four people hit from the same place for one of the very few times in a round. All too often by the time the following group finishes the par 3, the next group is on the green if the following hole is a par 4 in my experience...
 
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