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Why Does there Have to be a Best?

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SethO

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We have all heard it, and many of us have probably said that X (see Scotty Cameron) is the best putter made. But, why do we say this? What proof do we have that he (or any putter company) makes the absolute best putter? I have heard it in person and on these very forums that people buy a SC so that they will, "have no excuses."

More to the point, why does there have to be a best? Why are we caught up in this pissing contest? One could argue that Nike makes the best with the Method and their incredible polymer and groove technology. Others can say Rife or Yes with their groove technology. Some could say Bettinardi for his superior milling or Kia Ma for his sheer raw talent (coincidentally, Scotty Cameron was taught by both putter gurus so you know he learned from some great minds). Scotty could be considered the best for his putter finishing or his milling or his wide usage on tour. But why does any of this matter? I have never met a quality putter that was not a great putter even if it was not "the best" for me.

*A quick word of caution: I know this thread can turn into a flame fest very quickly, but please be respectful of everyone's opinions as they are truth to that person. This is not an argument as to who is the best, it is merely asking why there has to be a best. I use SC as an example because that is the popular position in golf these days. He makes excellent putters and nobody can deny that.
 
There doesn't have to be the best in general terms. However, the one thing I've noticed during my time here is that people always recommend "the best" based on whether or not it's in their bags. Personally, I think the Seemore Si1 putter is the best putter out there b/c it's "the best" putter for me. The point is, a putter, a brand, can be the best, as long as it's in the eye of the beholder.
 
Would you like the truth or what people would like to hear? hehe

The truth is there doesnt. But as humans we are programmed to only want to have the best. It has nothing to do with what might work better for us or something else. We are programmed to believe that if we bought it with our own money, it must be the best.

The perfect example of that is the drivers coming out in 2011 and where people are buying and why.

Nobody ever wants to say they bought over hype or because they are used on tour, but lets face it, we all do it. As humans we assume that they only choose the best, so we follow after them. If we didnt, there would not be companies spending millions to be called "the most used ball on tour" or "the most used driver on tour". Its in our makeup to want to play what they play. Its in our makeup to only want to play the best.

How dare someone say that what we use is not the best, etc...

Hope this all makes sense.
 
Good thread, Seth, and I have to agree. I don't see anything wrong with recommending what's in your bag, but I try to shy away from saying anything is the best. Perception and results vary so much between people that it's basically impossible to say anything is the best. I can say that I think a company like Bridgestone is the best at reaching out to the consumer (when it comes to ball companies), but I couldn't say that they have the best golf balls. Not picking on Bridgestone either, as it's obvious that I find a couple of their balls to be the best for my game.
 
Wait till you see my next putter. I don't think anyone else will think it's the best but I will love it so
 
I have that brand loyalty fight in me at times. It's the passion that can come from discussing something you're really into. I understand harsh sounding words may be thrown out at times but as long as in the end, we are all still friends its aok with me. I try not to take things personally and if I do, I'm usually over it because I know no harm was meant.

For me, Nike Method is the best.... right now. I don't know if it's what I should use based on my putting stroke or set up but it's what is putting the ball in the cup or closest. Now it may change, but I can tell you now.. Nike has my heart as far as putters are concerned. I LOVE SeeMore as well. Hell, look at my WS 001 review lol. So who knows, a lot of times with clubs it's in the moment. What works best for the person at that time. Which if something is so personal, I can understand the hotness of the debates.
 
I can certainly understand why someone would they have the best based on empirical evidence, but why do people go out and buy a putter sight unseen and ball unrolled and automatically know it is the best? Is it a case of mind over matter? If you believe that you are playing the best than it is the best? With golf being such a mental game, is there a placebo effect that will give the putter confidence?

On a side note, my best rolling putter is my Machine putter.
 
JB said:
Would you like the truth or what people would like to hear? hehe

The truth is there doesnt. But as humans we are programmed to only want to have the best. It has nothing to do with what might work better for us or something else. We are programmed to believe that if we bought it with our own money, it must be the best.

The perfect example of that is the drivers coming out in 2011 and where people are buying and why.

Nobody ever wants to say they bought over hype or because they are used on tour, but lets face it, we all do it. As humans we assume that they only choose the best, so we follow after them. If we didnt, there would not be companies spending millions to be called "the most used ball on tour" or "the most used driver on tour". Its in our makeup to want to play what they play. Its in our makeup to only want to play the best.

How dare someone say that what we use is not the best, etc...

Hope this all makes sense.
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Right on.
There must always be an "Alpha Dog" in the group. This gives everyone else something to strive for, and someone to usurp.
 
I believe Cameron doesn't make the best putter.... he is the best at marketing a putter. This is coming from someone that was very big into Camerons a few years ago. I think his reign on tour was he listened to players and tried to make what they were looking for. He had enough backing $ to be able to make custom stuff and when you pay players to use a putter that helps alot too. I'm not saying other putter companies didn't listen to players and make them putters but when you have big backing like Titleist that is a major help to spread your name on tour and through stores which that changes alot.

Now to me whatever brand & model fits your eye is the best putter.... for an individual. Everyone will have an opinion of a putter and there will be something that not everyone likes. That is why there are hundreds of putter companies that make tons of different models that hopefully you will find one that you like.

People can decide on putters from material, finish, head shape, to even price. If you think people are picky about drivers or irons.... putters are on a whole different level. Some might not care what they putt with but some it all depends on look, feel, or most important thing...... getting the ball in the hole.

We can always go a step farther into customs and one offs. I mean there are handful of companies that do that too. Scotty Cameron, T.P. Mills, Bettinardi, Byron Morgan, etc. are few names that come to mind. These companies can make the best putter for you. The exact model, weight, finish, stamps, and everything else can be made just for you depending on what you want to spend. These customs usually range from $500-$8k+ depending on what you want to spend. Really is all from same materials but you have marketing and hype that adds the $$$$ because of the brand name.

So for a company to say we at _________ make the best putters. Maybe for some but not everyone. If you made the best no one else would be in the putter business. If everyone wanted just your brand then you can have that title.

It's just like cars, appliances, or anything else..... its pretty much all the same its just the quality and price you are willing to pay.
 
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Golf equipment is so fickle in that what really works for one person might just completely suck for another, there is no possible way to call anything the best. There are a lot of "one of the best" or "the best for me" brands out there but any one best is about impossible. Sure everyone wants to say they play the best brand of whatever and they are usually right, best brand "for them".
 
Your right, I've often heard people say that X was the best putter, or driver, or shaft made. It's pretty funny how people have such a hard time separating the arrow from the indian and true technology for fitting their stroke. Add in brand loyalty and some people just can't see past the hype.

In reality it comes down to what's the best for me. If there were a best for all we would all have the same thing. I've developed a real hate for Odyssey putters, they just don't feel right for me and I've tried a ton of them, but many many people love them.
 
I agree with all said. Best = opinion of one of maybe a small group of people. Perhaps one day there will be empirical evidence to prove this argument, but until the it's people being people - like JB said.


Tap before talk.
 
Luckily I'm using the best so I don't have to get caught up in all this...
 
SethO said:
I can certainly understand why someone would they have the best based on empirical evidence, but why do people go out and buy a putter sight unseen and ball unrolled and automatically know it is the best? Is it a case of mind over matter? If you believe that you are playing the best than it is the best? With golf being such a mental game, is there a placebo effect that will give the putter confidence?

On a side note, my best rolling putter is my Machine putter.
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You are absolutely right with this statement. I think that golf has a HUGE placebo effect and that stems from just how "finnicky" golf is. If you defeat yourself before you take a swing, we all know what the result of that shot is going to be because we have all done it.

If you think that the putter is money, you will perform better. I personally feel that this is the "honeymoon" effect that you see with clubs. For the first several trips out you LOVE it, it is the best thing you have ever used, and then as the season draws on you slowly lose that confidence in the club. You make less miracle putts or you push a 4ft-er then all of a sudden that thought creeps into your mind for the next putt.
 
Good thread SethO, I see this all the time and have probably been guilty of it myself from time to time, but I think I have broken the habit. Almost every 18 HC golfer at my course with a 80-90 mph ss plays the Pro V1 because it is "the best ball ever" maybe, maybe not, but it isn't for you my friend. I also played with a great guy on tuesday who was about 60 and probably 20 HC golfer, playing Callaway blades. When I commented that they were really nice sticks he said ya they are played by all the Callaway guys on tour so I bought them. Great guy but thats a terrible reason to buy clubs that aren't designed for you. I guess the point is if we stopped watching commercials, and only read THP, the world would be filled with better golfers playing the right equipment.
 
Agreed. The best doesn't always have to be a good person or a bad person either. Society likes to always have a 'hero' or villain' to root for/against. As far as gear goes, everyone wants to say that they play the best stuff but lately it's confusing as to whose opinion matters most as to who says it's the best and why. As long as someone believes that they are playing the best stuff for their game then it shouldn't matter
RatFink said:
Right on.
There must always be an "Alpha Dog" in the group. This gives everyone else something to strive for, and someone to usurp.
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coolbreeze said:
Good thread SethO, I see this all the time and have probably been guilty of it myself from time to time, but I think I have broken the habit. Almost every 18 HC golfer at my course with a 80-90 mph ss plays the Pro V1 because it is "the best ball ever" maybe, maybe not, but it isn't for you my friend. I also played with a great guy on tuesday who was about 60 and probably 20 HC golfer, playing Callaway blades. When I commented that they were really nice sticks he said ya they are played by all the Callaway guys on tour so I bought them. Great guy but thats a terrible reason to buy clubs that aren't designed for you. I guess the point is if we stopped watching commercials, and only read THP, the world would be filled with better golfers playing the right equipment.
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So true! I have seen this many times, and always have to wonder.
 
thedue said:
Your right, I've often heard people say that X was the best putter, or driver, or shaft made. It's pretty funny how people have such a hard time separating the arrow from the indian and true technology for fitting their stroke. Add in brand loyalty and some people just can't see past the hype.

In reality it comes down to what's the best for me. If there were a best for all we would all have the same thing. I've developed a real hate for Odyssey putters, they just don't feel right for me and I've tried a ton of them, but many many people love them.
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So true...

I went out to try a number of drivers (shameless plug) and I was hitting the ball consistently well that day. Three different drivers with three different technology "features", all from companies that consider themselves "the best" in one capacity or another.

That said, when I compared the three drivers, with the exception of a couple straggler shots, you could have put the results one on top of another, and you wouldn't have been able to tell which was which more or less. Some got slightly better numbers, but at the end of the day, no one driver was head and shoulders above any other...they were all great!

This is just one example, but it shows how similar a lot of clubs are...it comes down to what works for you.

To use the ubiquitous putter analogy, some players have a gated swing, some have a straight back/straight forth swing. Some have great distance control, but lack in the directional control and vice versa. There will never be a universal best anything...especially in golf, where there is such a huge psychological element.
 
There can be levels of quality based on production materials, etc. but "best" is subjective for any individual person and best for one is not best for the next. I play what works for me and enjoy it and could care less what name is on it for the most part. For a while I putted with a $10 el-cheapo putter I got out of a clearance bin at Sports Authority because it worked for me and I was draining putts. It was certainly not high quality, and it wasn't the "best", but it worked and so that made it ok.
 
I think people should only use what works "best" for them, not what someone says is the best. I mean this is the reason why golf stores have a simulator and launch monitor so people can try clubs to see what is the "best" for them.
 
Puttin4Bird said:
Golf equipment is so fickle in that what really works for one person might just completely suck for another, there is no possible way to call anything the best. There are a lot of "one of the best" or "the best for me" brands out there but any one best is about impossible. Sure everyone wants to say they play the best brand of whatever and they are usually right, best brand "for them".
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Bingo...different strokes (pun intended) for different folks. I think brand loyalty also comes into play. Cameron revolutionized putters, Bob Dylan revolutionized music...does it make them the best in their respective fields? Maybe, maybe not. But they were different, they were fresh, they were something you've never seen or heard before. These factors make people want more of them.
 
Mardin said:
Bingo...different strokes (pun intended) for different folks. I think brand loyalty also comes into play. Cameron revolutionized putters, Bob Dylan revolutionized music...does it make them the best in their respective fields? Maybe, maybe not. But they were different, they were fresh, they were something you've never seen or heard before. These factors make people want more of them.
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In what way did Cameron revolutionize putters? This is not a flame, I am genially interested in hearing your point of view on this.
 
Marketing plays a huge role. People often want to be told what to do because it is therefore easier for them. Ego enters the equation as well. "I play the #1 ball on tour." The marketing leads people to beleive that their product is superior, and it may be for a certain player, but there is not enough ephasis on getting equipment fit to the individual. This is where golf is really lacking, and why companies such as Bridgestone are doing so well right now. Play what's right for you.

Getting fit is a marketing nightmare because then everyone will not go out and buy the latest and greatest being used on Tour. Which usually costs more than the average set. The majorty of people don't fit the "Tour Level" criteria but want to think that they can do it. Therefore they want the equipment that the pros play and the companies are more than willing to let them have it as it's money in their pockets. Money drives all in this world and golf is no different. It's sad really.

So ultimately, there should be no such thing as a generic "best". Everything will not always for every player. Case in point to get this back on the topic of putters, I prefer an insert to milling. My preference. Some agree, some don't. It's why we have options when it comes to buying things. Whether it's a car or a putter, we have options. The hard part is actually getting out there to see what works best for you. Fitting plays a big role in that.

Just my thoughts.
 
SethO said:
In what way did Cameron revolutionize putters? This is not a flame, I am genially interested in hearing your point of view on this.
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I wouldn't say he revolutionized putters, but he certainly revolutionized the high-end putter mentality. I've been playing golf since the late 90s (so I'm sure many of you have bee going longer than I have), but prior to Scotty Cameron putters, I'd never heard of premium putters made from one piece of milled steel, nor one that was customizable in a number of ways, and I definitely hadn't heard of one with a $300 price tag OTR!

I know he wasn't the first to come up with most of his putter designs, and he may not have even been the first to design the premium putter, but he certainly revolutionized it. As I said before, the price point of a Cameron, at least in my neck of the woods, was unheard of. However, as competitors started making alternatives to Cameron putters at the same price points, the $300 putter has become increasingly accepted.

Just my thoughts though...
 
BDoubleG said:
I wouldn't say he revolutionized putters, but he certainly revolutionized the high-end putter mentality. I've been playing golf since the late 90s (so I'm sure many of you have bee going longer than I have), but prior to Scotty Cameron putters, I'd never heard of premium putters made from one piece of milled steel, nor one that was customizable in a number of ways, and I definitely hadn't heard of one with a $300 price tag OTR!

I know he wasn't the first to come up with most of his putter designs, and he may not have even been the first to design the premium putter, but he certainly revolutionized it. As I said before, the price point of a Cameron, at least in my neck of the woods, was unheard of. However, as competitors started making alternatives to Cameron putters at the same price points, the $300 putter has become increasingly accepted.

Just my thoughts though...
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Great post man!
 
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