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Bifurcation

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Jeanthemachine

Earl of Limerick
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This could be painful, kinky or a topic for the ACLU depending on your definition.

My interest is in the possibility of having two (or more) sets of rules. The general discussion concerns the potential for one set of rules of golf for the PGA tour (or all professional tours) and a different set for amateurs. There has long been a different set of rules between the USGA and the R&A but the differences have been largely eliminated over the years but the rules have not been different for different players but more based on where the competitions take place.

I do not support two (or more) sets of rules. I do not see the need.

In my experience most "people who play golf" apply the rules as they see fit. They carry too many clubs, they take mulligans, they take relief from tree roots, they take preferred lies in the fairway (and rough), they practice putt after they miss a three footer, they take "gimmies", they do not take "stroke and distance" penalties on OB shots, they mis-mark balls on the green, they take improper relief from GUR, and on and on.

And 99% of the time no one cares because everyone in the group agrees that is "OK" in "our game"

I do not think there is any need to encourage making one's own rules by agreeing that it's OK to have different rules for different groups. Moat of us will not play on "the tour" or in a USGA event or even in our club championship. Most play with their buddies on the weekend and rarely play with a group that will insist on playing by the "strict rules of golf, Mr. Goldfinger"

How many people are really concerned about playing non conforming grooves and who, in your group, will be upset if someone is playing them?

I am not going to refuse to play with my friend because, in 2016, he is still anchoring hs putter.

Among the beauties of our beloved game is the idea that we play the same equipment (or so we think) on the same courses (but 1000 yards shorter) and by the same rules (except when we choose to ignore them).

Why do we need another "official" set of rules to ignore when we want to?
 
Jeanthemachine said:
Why do we need another "official" set of rules to ignore when we want to?
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The other "official" set of rules would be for the guys/ladies on the PGA Tour. They would be enforced by the PGA Tour, for PGA Tour events only. To have a set of rules for amateurs would be for the people who keep golf courses open, and making the game easier for them so they can get more enjoyment out of their time.
 
The reason people don't play by the rules is because the rules are too difficult for them to waste effort in tryin to learn them

YES bifurcation is absolutely needed. But just for a simpler version of the rules that already stand. Like walking back to the tee when you hit one OB. Talk about a public pace of play nightmare.

I don't believe the rules should make the game easier to play, just easier to understand. There's so much hatred towards the rules "sticklers" when really everyone needs to be a stickler on an easier set of rules.

A solid structure and foundation in a condensed simpler set of rules can help us build a more enjoyable game for the future. Now it's just "head to the course, play whatever game you want, and hope you have fun and come back". That won't grow the game. Ever.
 
Jeanthemachine said:
I am not going to refuse to play with my friend because, in 2016, he is still anchoring hs putter.
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Honest question for you Jean. I know your club pretty well so how long before people would be complaining if the club champ won using an anchored putter for a few years after 2016? I think the complaints would be almost immediate.
 
Thainer21 said:
The reason people don't play by the rules is because the rules are too difficult for them to waste effort in tryin to learn them

YES bifurcation is absolutely needed. But just for a simpler version of the rules that already stand. Like walking back to the tee when you hit one OB. Talk about a public pace of play nightmare.

I don't believe the rules should make the game easier to play, just easier to understand. There's so much hatred towards the rules "sticklers" when really everyone needs to be a stickler on an easier set of rules.

A solid structure and foundation in a condensed simpler set of rules can help us build a more enjoyable game for the future. Now it's just "head to the course, play whatever game you want, and hope you have fun and come back". That won't grow the game. Ever.
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This is very well stated. The perfect example of this is what people are talking about now with Freddie Couples. Nobody really knows for sure if he is breaking the rules. The butt of the putter moves freely, but is resting on his midsection. He said himself two days ago, that he himself, had no idea if it was against the rules.

Can you imagine that scenario in a club championship where we see so many cutthroat actions it appears.
 
The guys at my club play by the rules because they gamble based on handicaps. There won't be any anchoring going on in their games.
 
JB said:
This is very well stated. The perfect example of this is what people are talking about now with Freddie Couples. Nobody really knows for sure if he is breaking the rules. The butt of the putter moves freely, but is resting on his midsection. He said himself two days ago, that he himself, had no idea if it was against the rules.

Can you imagine that scenario in a club championship where we see so many cutthroat actions it appears.
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Even closer to home. Imagine in a Morgan Cup. What if the winning putt was made with a putter that "might be" anchored? Imagine the venom that would appear on the forum.
 
JB said:
Honest question for you Jean. I know your club pretty well so how long before people would be complaining if the club champ won using an anchored putter for a few years after 2016? I think the complaints would be almost immediate.
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I think you are correct and I think the "official" rules should apply in this type of competition. I think it would be determined BEFORE the competition that he used an anchored putter and would be disqualified before he ever teed off.

But the following Monday I will welcome the long putter in our $5 Nassau.
 
I imagine those with long putters will continue to use them as they are designed, especially in their w/e games. Regarding competitions, the rules committee will just have a line on the tournament sheet about following the USGA rules of golf. Some of my events will designate a "one ball" rule and some will not. My guess is that "anchoring" will be handled just like the "one ball" rule, some events will have it in effect and some will not.

I think course pros and tournament committees will be wise enough to know that a large percentage of golfers that have spent 300 on a belly putters are going to keep using them, regardless of what the PGA Tour, R&A and/or the USGA say. And, those hosting tournaments will see there entries decrease, materially, if they do not allow anchored putters.

But, I think the more serious events, city/club championships, for example, will adhere to the strict rules of golf and not allow them.
 
JB said:
This is very well stated. The perfect example of this is what people are talking about now with Freddie Couples. Nobody really knows for sure if he is breaking the rules. The butt of the putter moves freely, but is resting on his midsection. He said himself two days ago, that he himself, had no idea if it was against the rules.

Can you imagine that scenario in a club championship where we see so many cutthroat actions it appears.
Click to expand...

Do you REALLY think Freddie does not know? I suspect he just does not want to admit that his putter is anchored. How can "the butt of the putter moves freely, but is resting on his midsection" and not be anchored?
 
Jeanthemachine said:
Do you REALLY think Freddie does not know? I suspect he just does not want to admit that his putter is anchored. How can "the butt of the putter moves freely, but is resting on his midsection" and not be anchored?
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Knowing Freddie, yeah I kind of believe he does not know. If the back end of the putter but is resting against the midsection but moves with the stroke (as his appears to at times) then I can see some confusion.
 
I just don't think equipement rules for amateurs should be driven by the upper echelon of players. It doesn't matter to me if the USGA think Rory hitting the driver 320 yards is too far. I hit my driver 240 yards if I'm lucky. I also think that changing rules mid-stream is confusing and costly to people that already spend a ton of money to play.
 
Freddie definitely doesn't know the answer and I'm sure he doesn't care about this too much I bet. If he's against the rules he'll alter. If not, he won't. He's a laid back guy that will shrug his shoulders and keep on keeping on.
 
I am generally okay with two sets of rules here. Except that if you carry an official handicap and we accept the premise that an anchored putt is cheating then the index is incorrect, meaning a person who plays with the long putter for fun then breaks out the short putter for a club competition, for example, now has an inaccurate index.
 
tequila4kapp said:
I am generally okay with two sets of rules here. Except that if you carry an official handicap and we accept the premise that an anchored putt is cheating then the index is incorrect, meaning a person who plays with the long putter for fun then breaks out the short putter for a club competition, for example, now has an inaccurate index.
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I think that in the case of anchored putters, they would be ok under USGA standards. But not PGA Tour standards. So there wouldn't be any issues with club championships and the like.
 
The ruling itself would have no effect on the growth of the game. However, if it leads to different rules for pros and amateurs it could be monumental. IMO, these issues are most important for growing the game:

1) cost
2) difficulty
3) pace of play

By easing rules for amateurs (including allowing belly putters) the last 2 can easily be taken care of and this game might see an explosion in participation. Actually, even #1 could be alleviated if easier rules allow for faster play which allows for more tee times. The sooner they realize this the better.
 
When I first listened to someone talking about this immediatly I was against it however, once I thought about it things changed a little. Each sport has a graduation of rules up until the pro ranks baseball has alluminum bats and wood bats college football you only need one foot down and in the pro's you need two hockey has a hybrid icing rule and in the pro's it's all touch icing and list goes on. I think golf needs to have a progresion as well. The problem I see is the mass number of golf clubs implementing the proper rules for each level also trying to educate the players on the proper rules would be impossible most of us don't know the rules now but I think it is needed a junior event of kids 12 and under should not be playing with the same rules as the pro's.
 
I kind of like it. Standard rules and recreation rules. However, how would you deal with the handicap issue? The big benefit is allowing people of differing levels to compete against each other.
 
The problem you have with bifurcation is at what point do you let people have an unfair advantage just because it makes the game more enjoyable for them? Im all for it being more enjoyable but if Im playing a tournament or a club championship, I dont feel that someone should be able to anchor their putter because it gives them an unfair advantage of me, who doesnt anchor their putter.
IMO, its also a slippery slope. If you are going to allow anchoring, whats next? Super springy drivers that let you hit the ball 300+ yards, irons with overly long shafts and super strong lofts? Wedges with super spinny grooves? Putters with laser sights and levels on them that read the break for you and help you line up your putt? At what point does it stop being about talent and skill and start being more about technology?
If I shoot a 68 with that equipment, does it still count? To me, its doesnt and Id much rathar play with the same equipment and same rules that the pros do because it lets me compare my game to theirs and feel like when I do shoot a good score that Ive actually accomplished something.
 
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