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The Official Rant of the Day

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blugold said:
Oh no. The current Dept of Ed is a joke. The system is broken.
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The mere thought that there should be a federal autonomy over education across the nation is laughable. Its the problem with Washington on education right now, they cannot and will not grasp the reality that kids in NY don't learn like kids in TX and kids in TX don't learn like kids in CA and so on and so forth. Geography and cultural aspects MATTER. Trying to teach a child in rural OK like a child in NYC is asinine and utter ********.
 
mikeg_74 said:
College isn't for everyone & some are more apt to pursue technical careers. That's not knocking anyone, just the truth. Electrician, plumbers, welders, etc. are not pushed enough IMO.
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If my kids choose this I will back them 1000%.
 
mikeg_74 said:
College isn't for everyone & some are more apt to pursue technical careers. That's not knocking anyone, just the truth. Electrician, plumbers, welders, etc. are not pushed enough IMO.
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Jman said:
But say that in a political forum, there would be outrage.

I agree. ****, I think we should bring back wood-shop. But...there's too much agenda...
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I don't understand why the trades aren't pushed more. Around here, the vocational schools are used as holding for the "trouble" kids more than anything. College isn't for everyone, and there are some damned good jobs you can get if you learn the right skills and do an apprenticeship. Way better than getting a degree for the sake of getting one.
 
blugold said:
I know this isn't the popular point of view, but Education isnt a state level issue. It needs to be overseen on a national level. States continue to prove they're not smart enough to make their kids smart.
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Frankly I think education needs to be overseen at the family level, but that's kind of another discussion all together.
 
Jman said:
The mere thought that there should be a federal autonomy over education across the nation is laughable. Its the problem with Washington on education right now, they cannot and will not grasp the reality that kids in NY don't learn like kids in TX and kids in TX don't learn like kids in CA and so on and so forth. Geography and cultural aspects MATTER. Trying to teach a child in rural OK like a child in NYC is asinine and utter ********.
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I agree. Kids learn differently. no doubt. But certain things need to be taught, not saying how but need to be covered.

Kids in New York can't learn about American History with different facts than those in Georgia (for example).
 
sparksjr said:
If my kids choose this I will back them 1000%.
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Yep, people poo poo the trades but we sell ALOT of high end houses to plumbers, painters, drywall guys etc.
 
mpeterson said:
I don't understand why the trades aren't pushed more. Around here, the vocational schools are used as holding for the "trouble" kids more than anything. College isn't for everyone, and there are some damned good jobs you can get if you learn the right skills and do an apprenticeship. Way better than getting a degree for the sake of getting one.
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Bigger issue is we don't manufacture enough goods like we used to. Those jobs are gone and employed "blue collar" workers. How many times did you hear of guys going to work at "the plant" or "steel mill" bc that was what the family did. Just don't hear that anymore.

If I had to do it over I would have been an electrician and started my own business. A good electrician is killing it right now commercially.
 
blugold said:
I agree. Kids learn differently. no doubt. But certain things need to be taught, not saying how but need to be covered.

Kids in New York can't learn about American History with different facts than those in Georgia (for example).
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Facts, no, but they can in terms of how it impacted their specific geographic location on a more finite level than "hey kids, this happened, and then this, and then this".

If you think states are the problem, you are WAY off. States are bullied into all this ******** by the federal monster who wants one education to fit all. Which is maybe THE most laughable concept in education on the planet.
 
Jman, I'm genuinely curious, what's your stance on the AP US History debate in your state?
 
Jman said:
Its the truth. Tests = Money for these companies who lobby. Its fact.

There is a big push here in OK to disband the EOI testing and instead use the ACT as the one standardized tests. It makes far too much sense to pass though.
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When I was growing up in NY we had to take the Regents exams in High School. It used to be that if you passed all the Regents tests, you graduated with a Regents Diploma which led to a Regents scholarship if you went to one of the NY state schools (they later did away with the scholarship). If you failed one of the Regents tests, you could still get a "Local Diploma" (though NY did away with that option in 2012 from what I've read). Not sure what the status of the entire program is now.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to make sure that kids have a curriculum that, if they are forced to move, they can "easily" pick back up from where they left off, and that there is even testing to ensure that kids can perform equally as well as children from other states. However, as with all things ... there is no incentive for a state to do poorly. Back in the early 2000's, OKC lost out on having a major hub installed at Will Rogers Airport because the airlines looking into OKC were not impressed with OKC's overall education standards (from what I was told - guess the airline thought it would be hard to relocate people who had kids into a state which was perceived to have poor educational standards). However, leaving this "standardization" in the hands of companies who have no ties to the children, nor care for anything other than profit is asinine. Let the teachers design the curriculum, let the teachers design the standards, let the teachers design the tests. It worked in the past, it can work now. Just my two cents, YMMV.
 
blugold said:
Jman, I'm genuinely curious, what's your stance on the AP US History debate in your state?
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That the media BUTCHERED what is really going on there.

But what do I know, I only live here and teach here. So probably nothing.
 
mikeg_74 said:
College isn't for everyone & some are more apt to pursue technical careers. That's not knocking anyone, just the truth. Electrician, plumbers, welders, etc. are not pushed enough IMO.
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and yet we continue to have vocational programs at school taken away in the effort to push everyone to college.
 
deuce said:
When I was growing up in NY we had to take the Regents exams in High School. It used to be that if you passed all the Regents tests, you graduated with a Regents Diploma which led to a Regents scholarship if you went to one of the NY state schools (they later did away with the scholarship). If you failed one of the Regents tests, you could still get a "Local Diploma" (though NY did away with that option in 2012 from what I've read). Not sure what the status of the entire program is now.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to make sure that kids have a curriculum that, if they are forced to move, they can "easily" pick back up from where they left off, and that there is even testing to ensure that kids can perform equally as well as children from other states. However, as with all things ... there is no incentive for a state to do poorly. Back in the early 2000's, OKC lost out on having a major hub installed at Will Rogers Airport because the airlines looking into OKC were not impressed with OKC's overall education standards (from what I was told). However, leaving this "standardization" in the hands of companies who have no ties to the children, nor care for anything other than profit is asinine. Let the teachers design the curriculum, let the teachers design the standards, let the teachers design the tests. It worked in the past, it can work now. Just my two cents, YMMV.
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Standardized testing as a way to judge kids and teachers is a festering pimple on the ass of education.
 
deuce said:
When I was growing up in NY we had to take the Regents exams in High School. It used to be that if you passed all the Regents tests, you graduated with a Regents Diploma which led to a Regents scholarship if you went to one of the NY state schools (they later did away with the scholarship). If you failed one of the Regents tests, you could still get a "Local Diploma" (though NY did away with that option in 2012 from what I've read). Not sure what the status of the entire program is now.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to make sure that kids have a curriculum that, if they are forced to move, they can "easily" pick back up from where they left off, and that there is even testing to ensure that kids can perform equally as well as children from other states. However, as with all things ... there is no incentive for a state to do poorly. Back in the early 2000's, OKC lost out on having a major hub installed at Will Rogers Airport because the airlines looking into OKC were not impressed with OKC's overall education standards (from what I was told - guess the airline thought it would be hard to relocate people who had kids into a state which was perceived to have poor educational standards). However, leaving this "standardization" in the hands of companies who have no ties to the children, nor care for anything other than profit is asinine. Let the teachers design the curriculum, let the teachers design the standards, let the teachers design the tests. It worked in the past, it can work now. Just my two cents, YMMV.
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Yep good ole regents and also the CTBS testing in elementary school. Wasn't all that bad tho looking back at it but my teachers did a good job at preparing us for them
 
Jman said:
Standardized testing as a way to judge kids and teachers is a festering pimple on the ass of education.
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Judging a person* based on the performance of someone else is simply stupid.

*Unless that person is a doctor, and then honestly ... a majority of the people they treat should probably have a favorable outcome!
 
Jman said:
I'm not getting into this at all. I vehemently disagree.
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i agree keep education decisions out of washington.

deuce said:
How much money do the private companies that design/administer/convince politicians to use these tests pay/lobby politicians?

Therein probably lies the answer as to why they won't die.
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follow the money find the problem. new standards = new tests. new tests = more money
 
For me the answer is simple. Do away with standardized testing, let the teachers teach the curriculum, advise with guidance counselor on the progress of their kids and give them a solid path moving forward to set them up for success.
 
Jman said:
That the media BUTCHERED what is really going on there.

But what do I know, I only live here and teach here. So probably nothing.
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That's why I'm asking. I've only read very biased snippets of it. I have no real idea what's going on.
 
Evok said:
Yep good ole regents and also the CTBS testing in elementary school. Wasn't all that bad tho looking back at it but my teachers did a good job at preparing us for them
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Yeah, but the way the Regents worked it was basically a natural flow out of the coursework we were already expected to have a grasp of given the class/year you were in. There was never, to my knowledge, any prepping FOR and TOWARDS the Regents exams. If you could pass the class, you should be able to pass the Regents with a 65 or better.
 
And people wonder why I work for XVIII Airborne Corp Instead of using my education degree in the public schools. I think JMan has demonstrated why very effectively.

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blugold said:
That's why I'm asking. I've only read very biased snippets of it. I have no real idea what's going on.
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Read this. http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-ap-us-history-became-controversial-2015-2

Pretty good synopsis. The left media took and ran with the notion that we were refusing to teach history, in reality the revisions being made to how we are REQUIRED to teach it are at root. In its essence, the push is to remove all notions of American exceptionalism in history, to not talk on the things we should be proud of, to not ingrain in kids that this IS a great country and while we have made mistakes we have also helped save and shape the world time and again. We DO....or did...have core values and you CAN improve your lot in life with hard work. These are all things one side do NOT want taught anymore, and that is FACT.

I live in this bureaucratic nightmare, I'm mandated to not teach the Civil War or Revolutionary war in my AMERICAN HISTORY class because it isn't on the test because HEAVEN FORBID we teach of the times people came together and ROSE UP for anf against different causes. Heaven forbid we learn from our past.
 
deuce said:
Yeah, but the way the Regents worked it was basically a natural flow out of the coursework we were already expected to have a grasp of given the class/year you were in. There was never, to my knowledge, any prepping FOR and TOWARDS the Regents exams. If you could pass the class, you should be able to pass the Regents with a 65 or better.
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Oh we absolutely were prepped for them specifically at our school. My high school was on its high horse about "top 10 highest test scores in the state" so they did a ton to make sure they kept that. Pretty ridiculous but getting down towards the end when regents were approaching we were hammered with prep. We always enjoyed the bon fires in summer fueled by crazy amounts of guides, reviews etc

I should add that our prep included regents specific stuff that we didnt cover during the year. Like I said, it was all about those scores. I wish my mom was on here as she taught many years at our school and nearby before becoming a principal then superintendent, she'd tell you all about it. Its silly
 
Wake said:
Yep, people poo poo the trades but we sell ALOT of high end houses to plumbers, painters, drywall guys etc.
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I don't know where this stigma comes from.

I'm just a dirtbag mechanic and I make a pretty decent living.

Much better than most people I know with only 4 yeAr degrees .

I honestly think trade schools are more important than ever right now .

I'll have to find an amazing article mike rowe wrote about the situation .


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Jman said:
I live in this bureaucratic nightmare, I'm mandated to not teach the Civil War or Revolutionary war in my AMERICAN HISTORY class because it isn't on the test because HEAVEN FORBID we teach of the times people came together and ROSE UP for and against different causes. Heaven forbid we learn from our past.
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Excuse me, I have a kid who is under the age of one so I haven't had to deal with this but ... exactly what is tested on if not the two most significant events in the life our country?
 
Jman said:
Read this. http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-ap-us-history-became-controversial-2015-2

Pretty good synopsis. The left media took and ran with the notion that we were refusing to teach history, in reality the revisions being made to how we are REQUIRED to teach it are at root. In its essence, the push is to remove all notions of American exceptionalism in history, to not talk on the things we should be proud of, to not ingrain in kids that this IS a great country and while we have made mistakes we have also helped save and shape the world time and again. We DO....or did...have core values and you CAN improve your lot in life with hard worth. These are all things one side do NOT want taught anymore, and that is FACT.

I live in this bureaucratic nightmare, I'm mandated to not teach the Civil War or Revolutionary war in my AMERICAN HISTORY class because it isn't on the test because HEAVEN FORBID we teach of the times people came together and ROSE UP for anf against different causes. Heaven forbid we learn from our past.
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I'm asking because I don't know. How do we teach the good (ex. revolutionary war) and the bad (ex. segregation) without favoring one over the other?
 
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