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Wishon on Adjustable Hosel Drivers

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Perkins Rooster

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Interesting article by Tom Wishon on adjustable drivers.

http://wishongolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/adjustable-hosel-drivers.pdf

This report originated because of claims being made
on behalf of the modern adjustable hosel drivers that
these adjustable devices allow the loft, lie and face
angle to be customized for golfers. In 1995, I designed the first commercially available adjustable hosel
device to allow a metal wood to be altered for lie and
face angle. From my work to create this device, as
well as from my experience in having made wooden
woods early in my career, I believe that it is simply
not possible to change the loft through a hosel device
which operates on the principle of changing the angle
of the shaft into the clubhead.
Based on my experience, I find it difficult to believe
the claims for specification adjustment being made
on behalf of these modern adjustable hosel devices.
Therefore, this report came about because I wanted
to learn for myself if the modern versions of adjustable hosel devices really could achieve the loft, lie and
face angle specifications that the companies offering
drivers say they can do.

...

The ONLY way any of these drivers can come close to playing
at the lofts stated on each company’s hosel device is if the golfer
manually rotates the clubface until the rotation achieves the stated
loft. But then the golfer has to manually HOLD the club off the
ground, and as carefully as possible, hold the clubhead in that position when addressing the shot and when commencing the swing to
hit the shot. To truly achieve each stated loft, the clubhead would
have to be rotated into a different position, and again, HELD
manually by the golfer in that position. In performing a manual
rotation of the head to achieve the stated loft, the face angle will
also change. Manually holding the driver in a specific loft position
is very difficult to do with any level of accuracy. How many golfers can tell if they have rotated the clubface to a difference of 1° or
even 2° of loft?
 
I feel the same way. I have no way of proving it, but couldn't figure out for the life of me, how rotating the shaft and purely changing the shaft angle would have any affect on the loft of the club. I have an R11s, and have played with the loft settings. I "adjust" the loft, and if I setup with the face looking the same, the ball flies the same way.

What Wishon says about having to hold the club without grounding it in the precise position is something I have found several other people that have tried to research this, also say.
 
Interesting..........very interesting!
Wishon does know golf clubs.
I am anxious to hear what others have to say about this topic.
 
Lol @ Wishon.

He seems very concerned with proving other companies wrong.
 
That's why the Smartpad technology on the Amp Cell line is so great no need to hover. The loft adjusts and the club sits square because of the sole design

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
 
Meh.

I use adjustable drivers for shaft interchangeability, so whatever floats his boat.
 
blugold said:
Lol @ Wishon.

He seems very concerned with proving other companies wrong.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same.

Funny, I'd he thinks this way then why was he the first to invent it.

~Joseph~
via Tapatalk
 
Jman said:
Meh.

I use adjustable drivers for shaft interchangeability, so whatever floats his boat.
Click to expand...

You buying his clubs. That's what floats his boat.
 
Been saying the same thing. . It ain't true loft adjustment. Wrong axis.

taptalking
 
Even though I think Wishon is probably correct, I think these "adjustable" drivers work for many of us because we either have funky swings that get helped or some have good enough swings or hand/eye coordination or tool use ability to make them work for us.

no, that couldn't possibly be right. couldn't it?
 
Just was going to say what Jman said. Shaft swapability baby!
 
Jjmorris said:
Just was going to say what Jman said. Shaft swapability baby!
Click to expand...

Jman said:
Meh.

I use adjustable drivers for shaft interchangeability, so whatever floats his boat.
Click to expand...

Agree with both of you here. They work very well when testing multiple shafts against each other.
 
Is it just me, or is the loft thing kinda common sense? Here's a post from an old thread on the R9 FCT changes (yep, digging into the archives for this one...):

When you open the club face you increase loft, when you close the club face, you decrease loft. FCT Adjustments:Golfers here miss the vital point of how the adjustment actually works.. All the FCT adjustment results are paramount to having the club face square at address to the intended line of swing.So if you make an adjustment to OPEN the club face, you will notice the "club face open" at address when the club head is rested behind the ball for your intended line of swing.To make your adjustment work, you will physically have to roll the club face closed to square the club face on the intended line of swing.This result is a decrease in loft . The opposite is true for closing the club face with the FCT adjustment.F.Y.I The base plate on the R11 is adjustable to allow the club to look square when placed behind the ball after a shaft position change. It saves the golfer having to make the adjustment to square the club to the target at address.
 
Its just rotating it back. So if your impact is the same as at address then ya lost that open face

taptalking
 
I have to agree with the article that a hosel adjustment isn't going to change the static loft of the driver head. Really static loft is all he was measuring with his "green machine". The loft change comes to the dynamic loft of the club at impact. If you swing the club the exact same way with the head/shaft setup 2* different the dynamic loft will change 2* while the static loft remains unchanged. The one serious point that I believe he is missing is that the address (soled) measurements of the head are not the same as the impact measurements. The club isn't in the same position as it is soled in a green machine.

I would have much rather seen a test where the shaft is in the exact same position and then the loft and lie measured relative to the shaft, without having the club soled.
 
Rhyno said:
I was thinking the same.

Funny, I'd he thinks this way then why was he the first to invent it.

~Joseph~
via Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It's ok that you didn't read the article.
 
To me the article seems a bit bitter, in that though he was one of the first to work with the tech, seems like it didn't take off until recently, and he's not happy that he's isn't getting publicity.
 
SaskeyInWash said:
I have to agree with the article that a hosel adjustment isn't going to change the static loft of the driver head. Really static loft is all he was measuring with his "green machine". The loft change comes to the dynamic loft of the club at impact. If you swing the club the exact same way with the head/shaft setup 2* different the dynamic loft will change 2* while the static loft remains unchanged. The one serious point that I believe he is missing is that the address (soled) measurements of the head are not the same as the impact measurements. The club isn't in the same position as it is soled in a green machine.

I would have much rather seen a test where the shaft is in the exact same position and then the loft and lie measured relative to the shaft, without having the club soled.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. You should email Tom and I'm betting he'd respond. From my dealings with him he enjoys when people evaluate his claims with a critical mind.
 
he always has something to show why his equipment is better than major oem
 
As a fitter who has worked with adjustable drivers for years, I completely agree with what he has found in his static measurements. When they first came out you could see the problems on Trackman if someone soled the club. This has only become more exaggerated as the adjustability ranges have increased. I teach in my fittings that any adjustable club (even the TM or Cobra) must be manipulated square to the target and thus hovered. That said, I'm pretty sure most players do not know this.

Perkins Rooster said:
Interesting article by Tom Wishon on adjustable drivers.

http://wishongolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/adjustable-hosel-drivers.pdf

This report originated because of claims being made
on behalf of the modern adjustable hosel drivers that
these adjustable devices allow the loft, lie and face
angle to be customized for golfers. In 1995, I designed the first commercially available adjustable hosel
device to allow a metal wood to be altered for lie and
face angle. From my work to create this device, as
well as from my experience in having made wooden
woods early in my career, I believe that it is simply
not possible to change the loft through a hosel device
which operates on the principle of changing the angle
of the shaft into the clubhead.
Based on my experience, I find it difficult to believe
the claims for specification adjustment being made
on behalf of these modern adjustable hosel devices.
Therefore, this report came about because I wanted
to learn for myself if the modern versions of adjustable hosel devices really could achieve the loft, lie and
face angle specifications that the companies offering
drivers say they can do.

...

The ONLY way any of these drivers can come close to playing
at the lofts stated on each company’s hosel device is if the golfer
manually rotates the clubface until the rotation achieves the stated
loft. But then the golfer has to manually HOLD the club off the
ground, and as carefully as possible, hold the clubhead in that position when addressing the shot and when commencing the swing to
hit the shot. To truly achieve each stated loft, the clubhead would
have to be rotated into a different position, and again, HELD
manually by the golfer in that position. In performing a manual
rotation of the head to achieve the stated loft, the face angle will
also change. Manually holding the driver in a specific loft position
is very difficult to do with any level of accuracy. How many golfers can tell if they have rotated the clubface to a difference of 1° or
even 2° of loft?
Click to expand...
 
Appears to have been a very popular article. Can't reach it, I get a bandwidth exceeded error. I'll have to check back in a bit, I enjoy reading his stuff even if he loses me on occasion.

I've never really understood the disdain for his articles. I'm pretty sure if you got something straight from the engineers at TM or anyone else the tone and content would be very much the same. We get it through the filter of marketing. Yes, he tilts at windmills on occasion, because math is hard and people want simple explanations. The excerpt to me says "ads say adjustable drivers cause this....that's not what happens". Does knowing that change how the clubs play? No. Is his methodology superior? No. But it is, to him, more "correct".
 
Perkins Rooster said:
It's ok that you didn't read the article.
Click to expand...

I didn't read the whole thing only the quoted text in which it was stated, I designed the first adjustable hotel.

Was someone else being quoted?

~Joseph~
via Tapatalk
 
I dont understand how launch angles change with the changing of loft then? I sat at a Launch Monitor and adjusted my Amp Cell from 9.5-11.5 in one degree increments and saw the launch angle increase.. Was the monitor lying to me? Maybe I dont understand the article
 
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