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Golf Etiquette - Are My Expectations Reasonable?

I try to do the same thing, but I don't always succeed at it. If it messes with your shot, I don't think it's unreasonable to just have a polite but frank talk with the guy. Something along the lines of "hey, I know you probably don't realize you're doing it, but it's distracting to me if you move when I'm in my pre-shot routine. Do you mind either staying out of view or just holding still for a second?"
 
Bullitt5339 said:
The only time noise has ever bothered me is at Tot Hill Farms when the famous rooster got me about 2 inches in my backswing and then I just laughed because that's what he's famous for.

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Hahaha, we have some donkeys 50yds away from a par3 tee box, 9 out of 10 times they start up because your on the box. Since it happens to everyone we just chuckle if it messes with us.
 
gizmo3putt said:
Hahaha, we have some donkeys 50yds away from a par3 tee box, 9 out of 10 times they start up because your on the box. Since it happens to everyone we just chuckle if it messes with us.
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Yeah. I was warned about the rooster beforehand and he stayed quiet while Marc and Ron were teeing off but as soon as I started my backswing, he opened up full tilt. All I could do was laugh and expect it the next time.

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blugold said:
Question for you, how long does it take your foursome to play 18 holes?
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We are quite fast. We play ready golf, and we don't dilly dally. If we have nobody in front of us, we would typically be done in about 3 and 1/2 hours (my guesstimate). It typically takes us longer, however, because we are waiting on people in front of us. (Along with etiquette, playing at a reasonable pace also seems to be a lost art.) It often takes us anywhere from 4 hours and 15 minutes to 4 hours and 45 minutes, depending on how slowly people are playing in front of us.
 
double-hoo said:
We are quite fast. We play ready golf, and we don't dilly dally. If we have nobody in front of us, we would typically be done in about 3 and 1/2 hours (my guesstimate). It typically takes us longer, however, because we are waiting on people in front of us. (Along with etiquette, playing at a reasonable pace also seems to be a lost art.) It often takes us anywhere from 4 hours and 15 minutes to 4 hours and 45 minutes, depending on how slowly people are playing in front of us.
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I'm only playing devil's advocate here. Could some of your partner's movements and tendencies just be him trying to play ready golf?
 
Fourputt said:
If your buddy wants to put his club away while you are hitting, let him. If he drops or jams it in, then maybe just ask him to do it more quietly. I can put a club in my bag without making a sound that is audible more than 4 or 5 feet away. If such a small thing as shifting ones weight or scratching ones nose is an unbearable distraction, then you need to work on a remedy or you will find that nobody wants to play with you.
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Yeah, I'm not talking about scratching a nose or putting a club away quietly. I don't think I'm talking about "extremes." I'm talking about dropping a club in the bag or throwing something in the front of the cart when everybody else is basically quiet and you can clearly hear a clunk at the top of the backswing. I'm talking about an obvious movement (not a little twitch) when someone's legs and feet are clearly visible.

But I'm willing to accept that etiquette is dead. I am surprised though. I guess the game is changing. I guess I will just have to adjust my expectations and deal with it, just like I have to re-rack other people's weights at the gym so the women do not have to remove 45 lb. plates from the bar, and I have to be careful at four-way stops when guy coming the other way is going to make a left hand turn in front of me, but does not signal.

But personally, I think the loss of etiquette is a little sad.
 
blugold said:
I'm only playing devil's advocate here. Could some of your partner's movements and tendencies just be him trying to play ready golf?
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No, it is really just carelessness. He'll take another putt or drop another ball, or do other things quite often (none of which is an issue with me), because we know we're going to be waiting on the next tee anyway.
 
double-hoo said:
Yeah, I'm not talking about scratching a nose or putting a club away quietly. I don't think I'm talking about "extremes." I'm talking about dropping a club in the bag or throwing something in the front of the cart when everybody else is basically quiet and you can clearly hear a clunk at the top of the backswing. I'm talking about an obvious movement (not a little twitch) when someone's legs and feet are clearly visible.

But I'm willing to accept that etiquette is dead. I am surprised though. I guess the game is changing. I guess I will just have to adjust my expectations and deal with it, just like I have to re-rack other people's weights at the gym so the women do not have to remove 45 lb. plates from the bar, and I have to be careful at four-way stops when guy coming the other way is going to make a left hand turn in front of me, but does not signal.

But personally, I think the loss of etiquette is a little sad.
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I don't think that has ever been said here, though maybe I'm reading into it differently.
 
double-hoo said:
No, it is really just carelessness. He'll take another putt or drop another ball, or do other things quite often (none of which is an issue with me), because we know we're going to be waiting on the next tee anyway.
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I've never seen a person throw anything in front of a cart. I'm not sure what that's about.

If he's distracting you, ask him to stop throwing clubs in his bag and just being a general nuisance.

I'm not touching the "standing in peripheriey". Movement is one thing, standing still is another.
 
Golf Ghost said:
I don't think that has ever been said here, though maybe I'm reading into it differently.
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Well, it is a matter of perspective, I guess. The way I was brought up in the game, and most of the people I've played with over the years (and quite a few of the good golfers with whom I play currently that I think really respect the game and its traditions) would not do these things. And if they did, many would apologize immediately without even a comment being made, because they would know what they did (e.g., dropping a club in bag) as soon as they did it.
 
Do others in your group have the same concerns?
 
double-hoo said:
Well, it is a matter of perspective, I guess. The way I was brought up in the game, and most of the people I've played with over the years (and quite a few of the good golfers with whom I play that I think really respect the game and its traditions) would not do these things. And if they did, many would apologize immediately without even a comment being made, because they would know what they did (e.g., dropping a club in bag) as soon as they did it.
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People are taught differently. Proper etiquette is somewhat subjective. I learned a 9 holes goat track where people would literally yell drink orders to the bar from the fairway. That was just common and accepted as ok. That's why asking your guy to change some simple things are okay. I also believe that some flexibility one your part needs to happen.
 
blugold said:
I'm not touching the "standing in peripheriey". Movement is one thing, standing still is another.
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Again, I'm not complaining about standing with no movement. Not standing in the someone's peripheral vision is just what I choose to do to avoid being a distraction. I'm not making that a standard for anyone else.
 
double-hoo said:
But I'm willing to accept that etiquette is dead. I am surprised though. I guess the game is changing. I guess I will just have to adjust my expectations and deal with it,
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I don't think etiquette is dead. But we aren't on tour either. There are degrees here. In a recent round a playing partner was kind of a loud talker that was generous with his opinions and advice; he would talk while I was in my pre-shot routine. It did bother me. It would have been really nice if he wasn't doing it but its on me to tune it out and execute my shot. I left the round believing I needed to work on my mental game and focus, not selecting different playing partners.
 
tequila4kapp said:
I don't think etiquette is dead. But we aren't on tour either. There are degrees here. In a recent round a playing partner was kind of a loud talker that was generous with his opinions and advice; he would talk while I was in my pre-shot routine. It did bother me. It would have been really nice if he wasn't doing it but its on me to tune it out and execute my shot. I left the round believing I needed to work on my mental game and focus, not selecting different playing partners.
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You're going to get me diverted to a larger issue if I'm not careful, and I really don't want to. But sticking to this particular context, I don't agree that it is "on you," and that you need to tune it out. (We have been duped today into believing that everyone should be free to do what they want, and others have to adjust to their behavior.) It is impolite to talk during your pre-shot routine, and it is on your playing partner to show some courtesy.
 
double-hoo said:
In this context, I disagree. But I recognize the world is changing.
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Hahaha. Well then...

In that case, I'm done finding common ground here.

Your buddy is being a distraction. Ask him to stop. That's all you can do.

Also, stop thinking that the world needs to wait for you to hit your shot. That's bad etiquette on your part.

Not everybody was taught like your were. That doesn't mean they or you are wrong.
 
double-hoo said:
You're going to get me diverted to a larger issue if I'm not careful, and I really don't want to. But sticking to this particular context, I don't agree that it is "on you," and that you need to tune it out. (We have been duped today into believing that everyone should be free to do what they want, and others have to adjust to their behavior.) It is impolite to talk during your pre-shot routine, and it is on your playing partner to show some courtesy.
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Are others in your group noticing the same thing?

It might be more effective if two or three of you mention it to him after a round one day.
 
double-hoo said:
You're going to get me diverted to a larger issue if I'm not careful, and I really don't want to. But sticking to this particular context, I don't agree that it is "on you," and that you need to tune it out. (We have been duped today into believing that everyone should be free to do what they want, and others have to adjust to their behavior.) It is impolite to talk during your pre-shot routine, and it is on your playing partner to show some courtesy.
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By age I'm approaching Old Fogey levels. I'm also a law school graduate - the nature of some of your comments resonate with me. We probably are more closely aligned on this issue than it appears. I guess I'm ultimately saying the world is not perfect and we have to adjust. Sometimes our ball lands in an unrepaired divot - we don't get a drop. Sometimes a playing partner isn't perfect. Gotta adjust and adapt. Again, there are degrees. If my friend was walking through my line I'd 100% say something.
 
blugold said:
Hahaha. Well then...

In that case, I'm done finding common ground here.
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Well, to be fair, I guess I can see that some aspects of etiquette on the golf course are likely to vary from foursome to foursome, from course to course, and perhaps from one area of the country to another. So in some sense, etiquette is not a fixed concept. I think it is just unfortunate that certain conventions are not observed everywhere among relatively serious golfers.

I don't think walking in the line of another's putt should be acceptable anywhere. I don't think leaving a bunker un-raked should be deemed acceptable. I don't think not fixing a ball mark that is 4 feet in front of the pin is good manners. So I think some things should not be subjective.


blugold said:
Not everybody was taught like your were. That doesn't mean they or you are wrong.
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Yes, we believe today in situational ethics and subjective standards, or "what is right for me." There are no objective standards of right or wrong in almost any area. To quote a line from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, "I weep for the future." :bashful:
 
Golf Ghost said:
Are others in your group noticing the same thing?

It might be more effective if two or three of you mention it to him after a round one day.
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I tend to play with this one guy most often. The other members of our foursome tend to vary. Some have noticed it on occasion, but I tend to notice it most often because he and I typically rid together in the same cart, and we also tend to tee off back to back, so he and I are usually in the closest proximity to one another.

Anyway, thanks for the comments and input, guys. It has been interesting.
 
double-hoo said:
Well, to be fair, I guess I can see that some aspects of etiquette on the golf course are likely to vary from foursome to foursome, from course to course, and perhaps from one area of the country to another. So in some sense, etiquette is not a fixed concept. I think it is just unfortunate that certain conventions are not observed everywhere among relatively serious golfers.

I don't think walking in the line of another's putt should be acceptable anywhere. I don't think leaving a bunker un-raked should be deemed acceptable. I don't think not fixing a ball mark that is 4 feet in front of the pin is good manners. So I think some things should not be subjective.




Yes, we believe today in situational ethics and subjective standards, or "what is right for me." There are no objective standards of right or wrong in almost any area. I weep for the future. :bashful:
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There are some universal things, yes. Raking bunkers. Walking in lines. The few you named I agree with.

Have you followed anything from The King thread? A bunch of very serious golfers all walking around talking and using cellphones.

Etiquette isn't dead. It is just changing. That's fine. Things change.

It's also quiet melodramatic to try to equate a discussion on a playing partner being a distraction (here's an idea, ride in a different cart from the guy) to "weeping for the future."
 
blugold said:
People are taught differently. Proper etiquette is somewhat subjective. I learned a 9 holes goat track where people would literally yell drink orders to the bar from the fairway. That was just common and accepted as ok. That's why asking your guy to change some simple things are okay. I also believe that some flexibility one your part needs to happen.
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double-hoo said:
In this context, I disagree. But I recognize the world is changing.
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Obviously it is some what subjective, since your idea of what is proper is far more extreme than the norm. I've worked as a rules official for Colorado Golf Association competitions, and I volunteered for 4 years as a hole marshal at the PGA Tour International at Castle Pines, so I have some slight idea of what is considered proper for those venues.

Even for the Tour players, it was not necessary to quiet the gallery until the player actually moved to address the ball. The rest of his pre-shot routine was done with folks moving and talking.

We never had an etiquette complaint at any CGA competition where I officiated, yet there were always a couple of guys picking clubs, scoping the pin, occasionally even quietly chatting with each other. These were often very good players too (John Elway played in a couple of them that I worked). Nobody worried about being in anyone's peripheral vision - I mean, if 4 guys are in the fairway, the odds are that at least one player standing at his ball will be visible to one of the other players almost 100% of the time. He isn't required to stop all incidental movement just in the rare case that he's paired with someone who is overly touchy.

Good etiquette doesn't mean that you throw reason out the window. Gage the players you are paired with, but as long as you are reasonably aware of what they are doing, and are not doing anything overt or intentional, then they shouldn't have any reason to complain.
 
Fourputt said:
Obviously it is some what subjective, since your idea of what is proper is far more extreme than the norm. I've worked as a rules official for Colorado Golf Association competitions, and I volunteered for 4 years as a hole marshal at the PGA Tour International at Castle Pines, so I have some slight idea of what is considered proper for those venues.

Even for the Tour players, it was not necessary to quiet the gallery until the player actually moved to address the ball. The rest of his pre-shot routine was done with folks moving and talking.

We never had an etiquette complaint at any CGA competition where I officiated, yet there were always a couple of guys picking clubs, scoping the pin, occasionally even quietly chatting with each other. These were often very good players too (John Elway played in a couple of them that I worked). Nobody worried about being in anyone's peripheral vision - I mean, if 4 guys are in the fairway, the odds are that at least one player standing at his ball will be visible to one of the other players almost 100% of the time. He isn't required to stop all incidental movement just in the rare case that he's paired with someone who is overly touchy.

Good etiquette doesn't mean that you throw reason out the window. Gage the players you are paired with, but as long as you are reasonably aware of what they are doing, and are not doing anything overt or intentional, then they shouldn't have any reason to complain.
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I do not disagree with anything you posted.

I do think tour players can be sensitive flowers when it comes to movement and noise though.
 
Everyone is different. From the way they react to certain behavior to the reasons they even play golf. I, personally, play to have a good time with some friends. Sure, I'd like to be better, and I have a certain respect for the game...but I can't play with people who play a casual round like we're on day 3 of the Masters. It's just not that serious, but then again I think I'm more laid back than most.
 
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