Which club would you choose?

Maybe.

I've also been around a long, long time and I know what both scenarios look like.
haha I know what you mean. I genuinely believe he does though after talking with him a few weeks
 
Interesting. Especially where your best dispersion was with what is supposed to be a "players" iron. Did you hit them in that order or did your dispersion get progressively better from your first 10 to you last?

I would repeat the test with pw, 7i, and 4i from each and see if the pattern holds for all 3.
I hit them in the order listed. I had just completed a lesson where I was hitting my Apexes really well, so I decided to hop on the launch monitor and see how those clubs did. Hit the D200 first, then the C100, then the V4.

Honest inquiry - is this a loaded question and do you want a straight answer or do you want a justification answer.
Looking for straight answers, whatever your honest opinion is. I've got my big boy pants on, you won't hurt my feelings. :D
 
Dave I have a question for you. You currently play Apex irons right? What would you say you are looking for extra out of them? Are there things about them that you think hurt your game that you are searching for? Or is it the opposite? Just curious. W/S has a lot of irons out there for you choose from, and it looks like you are doing your homework, so kudos to you on that. But like Hawk said, it almost seems like a justification question. So I'm going to go a different approach and ask about your current set and where you see you need help.
 
Ok, well here's my straight answer. I was hoping you'd say that since I'd already written the post :D

Remember this too dude - I know where you are in your game because I was there not many years ago. This is all just good advice and I don't think it helps you to egg on poor decisions.

-You don't pick a golf club based on that very small glimpse of what is going on. You need to judge the totality of the situation. Yea, that little blue circle looks nice, but it was also in a perfect setting, void of the worst misses (which you'll be playing outdoors), on a mat, and it doesn't indicate that now you're going to be hitting an almost blade 4 or 5 iron into your first par 3 on True Blue.

-You need a club that is going to be able to carry water and large bunkers on mis-hits. You can play long for safety, but you can't create launch angle, recapture lost ball speed or prevent a thinner sole from digging in wet turf. Pick a club to hit to protect your miss and have a club that will get you on the green if you miss.

-You don't determine that you are more accurate with a more demanding iron from results seen on a perfectly controlled environment. It's not reality and for all you know it could just be a coincidence. That's what happens. A flip is like rolling the dice - I know this.

-You have to consider all your misses, because you're going to miss far more often than you don't. You need to look at those misses in terms of distance loss and the height you maintain on them, because there are numerous holes where missing short is going to cost you strokes. These are not run it up on the green golf courses.

-Forgiveness is a real thing. It's not a catch phrase. I've hit 10's of thousands of balls on monitors and can tell you that there is a stark difference in the amount of ball speed you get off center, the launch angle you get on low misses, how the club reacts with the ground when you miss it fat, and I could go on. I literally did a test on the predecessor club to the V4 and recorded results here a few months back. It was a huge disparity against even an iron like your Apex.

-My honest suggestion (and this is said not to be a jerk, but to give you truly good advice) is to say you need to avoid convincing yourself of things that aren't based in rationale and reality. It's a very, very easy trap to fall into and one that almost everybody here has fallen victim to. Look at your game on the whole with a critical eye and pick a bag that will help with your misses. You have a team of guys that are counting on you, so do everything you can to drop every stroke you can.
 
Looking for straight answers, whatever your honest opinion is. I've got my big boy pants on, you won't hurt my feelings. :D

My straight answer is to go back and do it again cold turkey and see what, if anything, changes. And do it with shorter and longer irons as well. If you can maintain the dispersion pattern with the V4 then that might just be the club for you.

I'll look forward to Hawk's answer as well.

<ETA>

He beat me to it, and in more depth. I'll add that your test came after a lesson and after, I suspect, you had your swing grooved pretty well. If you had grabbed up an FG Tour 100 in that session I would bet you would have had a respectable pattern with it as well.

Go back in a few days and start hitting balls after warming up. Use different irons and vary the order in which you hit them. If you start off testing 7i, choose an order for the 3 different clubs and hit them. When you switch to a different club, say pw, switch the testing order. Lather, rinse, repeat for a long iron.

To really give it a whirl, put all the test clubs in a line and start picking a random club and putting your best shot on it. Something like D200 7i then V4 4i, then C100 PW. One problem with range type swinging is you don't normally simulate game situations. E.G. i need to carry 150; select club and execute shot; it's rare that you would hit consecutive shots with the same club in a round unless it's a penalty situation.

Ideally, one would be able to select a set of clubs after having had the opportunity to play several rounds with several options to see which one worked best. Unless you wish to buy several sets and take the loss when selling/trading the ones that don't work for you, you'll have to rely somewhat on launch monitors to help make an informed decision. It helps to try to simulate playing scenarios and, as was mentioned above, you have to consider all your shots and how bad the misses are.
 
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Hawk that is super helpful advice, thank you for taking the time to write that up.

To answer you and ddec, the reason I'm asking is because I have a small amount of experience with one set of clubs (maybe 15 rounds with my Apexes) and a teensy amount of experience with another set (2 rounds with Speedblades). I don't feel like I have the experience to make a really informed decision about which clubs will be right for me. That's why I've been doing testing and tossing the results out to my team and to you guys.

As I'm sure you guessed, my ego says one thing but I don't want to listen to that. I'll buy ego clubs on my own time, this is about doing what's best for my game and my team.
 
Hawk that is super helpful advice, thank you for taking the time to write that up.

To answer you and ddec, the reason I'm asking is because I have a small amount of experience with one set of clubs (maybe 15 rounds with my Apexes) and a teensy amount of experience with another set (2 rounds with Speedblades). I don't feel like I have the experience to make a really informed decision about which clubs will be right for me. That's why I've been doing testing and tossing the results out to my team and to you guys.

As I'm sure you guessed, my ego says one thing but I don't want to listen to that. I'll buy ego clubs on my own time, this is about doing what's best for my game and my team.

Good stuff dude. Hawk's post is pretty much spot on. That's a good frame of mind to have.
 
Hawk that is super helpful advice, thank you for taking the time to write that up.

To answer you and ddec, the reason I'm asking is because I have a small amount of experience with one set of clubs (maybe 15 rounds with my Apexes) and a teensy amount of experience with another set (2 rounds with Speedblades). I don't feel like I have the experience to make a really informed decision about which clubs will be right for me. That's why I've been doing testing and tossing the results out to my team and to you guys.

As I'm sure you guessed, my ego says one thing but I don't want to listen to that. I'll buy ego clubs on my own time, this is about doing what's best for my game and my team.

I wish I could Thank this post multiple times.
 
Hawk that is super helpful advice, thank you for taking the time to write that up.

To answer you and ddec, the reason I'm asking is because I have a small amount of experience with one set of clubs (maybe 15 rounds with my Apexes) and a teensy amount of experience with another set (2 rounds with Speedblades). I don't feel like I have the experience to make a really informed decision about which clubs will be right for me. That's why I've been doing testing and tossing the results out to my team and to you guys.

As I'm sure you guessed, my ego says one thing but I don't want to listen to that. I'll buy ego clubs on my own time, this is about doing what's best for my game and my team.

Sounds like you have the right mindset, Dave, and honestly that's the hardest battle to win. Launch monitor numbers have come back to bite me numerous times, so IMHO, I'd go with the most forgiving option possible in the scenario you're going to be in like hawk mentioned.

I know you've mentioned it before in terms of irons so I'll ask a question that I think might be a big factor to you...how do the D200's look at address for you?
 
Which club would you choose?

I'll buy ego clubs on my own time, this is about doing what's best for my game and my team.

Dave,
Sounds like you have gotten some solid advise, but let me ask you this.
At this point of your game, (and I really don't know where that is) do you want to like what you see when you look at your clubs, or do you want to like where your next shot is being played from?

A lot of low handicaps play clubs geared for forgiveness.

I look forward to following your progresses and success in the Legacy.
 
i am still taking the white. when i was in the 20+ hdcp range i wanted something that was going to give me the most distance. Accuracy for me was an issue regardless because of swing flaws so i would be happy with 10-20 yds extra club and slightly off center.

just out of curiosity what is the reason for eliminating the best and worst shots? in fittings that i have been through the fitter only throws out some bad results when i hit one that is just way off compared to the rest of the sample size.
 
I know you've mentioned it before in terms of irons so I'll ask a question that I think might be a big factor to you...how do the D200's look at address for you?
Not bad, honestly. Wilson did a good job of hiding all that chunkiness behind the face, and there's not silly offset. I like how their entire range of irons looks at address, I don't have a strong preference for one over the other.

At this point of your game, (and I really don't know where that is) do you want to like what you see when you look at your clubs, or do you want to like where your next shot is being played from?

Honestly both. Ideal for me is really good looking clubs that put the ball exactly where I want it most often. That means hitting the side of the fairway I want to be on, the section of the green I'm aiming for, etc.

just out of curiosity what is the reason for eliminating the best and worst shots? in fittings that i have been through the fitter only throws out some bad results when i hit one that is just way off compared to the rest of the sample size.
I feel like that unnaturally skews towards good shots. You're not going to hit your best shot every time just like you're not going to hit your worst shot every time.
 
Hawk, that's a great explanation of the reality of choosing equipment. Thanks for helping my teammate make his decision.
 
i am still taking the white. when i was in the 20+ hdcp range i wanted something that was going to give me the most distance. Accuracy for me was an issue regardless because of swing flaws so i would be happy with 10-20 yds extra club and slightly off center.

just out of curiosity what is the reason for eliminating the best and worst shots? in fittings that i have been through the fitter only throws out some bad results when i hit one that is just way off compared to the rest of the sample size.


That's a good way to say what I was trying to convey there. Accuracy related to the club itself is tough to gauge even at my level now - not that I'm even at a 'good' level.
 
Reading the updates I would eliminate blue. Others have touched in the reasons - unreliability of controlled environment testing and lack of distance (really consider his one - you likely would be hitting a 5i into 150 yard greens where you have to carry hazards, and a more players type 5i at that. In my world that's a deal breaker). From what I've read about the C and D lines I think either could be acceptable, especially if you are able to get fitted for shafts too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'm going white. Longer and tight enough dispersion.
 
Since we are on opposite teams, I'm telling you to take the red.

EDIT since I previously skimmed.
I'm taking the white. Looks like maximum average distance yards with the white circle and not much increase in dispersion over the blue.

~Rock
 
Since we are on opposite teams, I'm telling you to take the red.
LOL, that's my advice to you guys too. Blades all the way. :D
 
Based on what you've said, I'd go white. YOU will need all the distance yoy can get and learn to control that distance. Can't teach distance but can learn control
 
That's a good way to say what I was trying to convey there. Accuracy related to the club itself is tough to gauge even at my level now - not that I'm even at a 'good' level.


i am in the same boat as you. I have been working on the game seriously for the last 2 years and have dropped close to 10 strokes on my hdcp because i have been able to bring in my dispersion but also because i have put some work in on short game to help me recover from those bad shots.

i can be bad accuracy wise with any club but am working to bring that in tighter and no matter how much i work on my game i don't see a big jump in distance but i know i can bring my dispersion in tighter. as long as i have flaws i will be happy to hit the ball further and give up a few yards left or right of target because that can be fixed.
 
if it's a driver or a club i'm looking for distance white...

any other club, blue
 
Not bad, honestly. Wilson did a good job of hiding all that chunkiness behind the face, and there's not silly offset. I like how their entire range of irons looks at address, I don't have a strong preference for one over the other.


Honestly both. Ideal for me is really good looking clubs that put the ball exactly where I want it most often. That means hitting the side of the fairway I want to be on, the section of the green I'm aiming for, etc.


I feel like that unnaturally skews towards good shots. You're not going to hit your best shot every time just like you're not going to hit your worst shot every time.

jmo, but i don't think it skews towards good shots or bad shots. not every player including the pros will hit their good shots all the times and at a high hdcp there will be a tendency for more bad shots than good shots. this i know as i was just at a 22+ a couple years ago. imo including all shots is more of an accurate reflection on a persons game and all shots should be included. i can see eliminating 1 iron shot of 10 that was not anywhere near the other 9 with regards to flight, spin, etc.

in a competition when pressure is on many golfers will have difficulty hitting their best shots and will have to rely on how bad their bad shots are. so including the all shots especially the bad imo more accurately reflects the results of hitting a club. For example at Bridgestone U i demo'd all the irons except the cast(i forgot they were there). One of the first clubs i hit were the the muscle backs because i wanted to try them and get it out of the way and focus on clubs that i thought were more suited for my game. I hit 4 shots then switched then hit another 3 or 4. If i eliminated both my best shots and my bad shots the results would have told me i could play them with no issues because most online or slightly off even though distance wise i was losing 10 or more yards in carry but based on those few shots i could have justified playing them because the results just weren't that bad. In reality my game would have suffered in casual rounds and i doubt i would have lasted more than a few weeks of suffering through bad rounds before i went and found something. For me when demo'ing clubs i want to see what all my shots look like so i can gauge what will be there for my best, my normal and my not so good.
 
White.
 
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