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The Sport has got to become more affordable

jacob1 said:
Yes, compare it to other sports. But lets not down play the money that some spend on golf either. Of course most on this site are going to be bias. We are all here because we love golf so most of our opinions are going to be swayed.
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Which is of course entirely by choice. I don't think its' reasonable to tell companies who have charged the same amount of money for a driver for a decade despite inflation to lower the cost of their latest and greatest, just because some people insist on having the newest everything.

Golf is a reasonably priced hobby (by comparison) for those who want it to be. Golf is an expensive hobby for those who want it to be. My simple point is that it's nowhere near priced out of reach by comparison to other sports, especially for youth players.
 
Michigan Slice said:
Deals can be had out there from anything from Tees to Tee times.

If you don't care how much money you spend thats one thing, but you can get into the the sport with minimal investment.

Play older equipment
Find lost balls
Collect unbroken tees
Play twilight, or specials

It can be done on the cheap!
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this


I do all these to save some coin.....
 
lilbilly said:
I deer hunt, and if I get into buying gear or leasing land... my goodness. The amount of money some people spend to lease land, or take care of land they own for hunting, is insane. People spending $30 an acre to lease land.
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you won't touch a lease here for $30/Ac....better dig a LOT deeper....most here run 100-150, depending on location
 
Canadan said:
Which is of course entirely by choice. I don't think its' reasonable to tell companies who have charged the same amount of money for a driver for a decade despite inflation to lower the cost of their latest and greatest, just because some people insist on having the newest everything.

Golf is a reasonably priced hobby (by comparison) for those who want it to be. Golf is an expensive hobby for those who want it to be. My simple point is that it's nowhere near priced out of reach by comparison to other sports, especially for youth players.
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I totally agree that companies shouldn't be asked to lower prices. Or clubs to lower there greens fee. All I'm saying is that golf isn't what most people outside of golfers would be considered a cheap hobby. I'm an avid hunter and I spend a good bit of money on that. However if you where on a hunting forum those guys are going to tell you how cheap hunting is and probably say how expensive golf is. LOL because there oppinion is swayed just like most here. And that's ok.
 
Living in Annapolis, I can say with absolute certainty, that golfing is a significantly less expensive hobby than is boating. A person must confine their hobbies, including golf, within their means. Given some creativity and common sense, I think most people could find a way to enjoy golf and live within their means. The secret to reasonably priced golf is to avoid the tendency to get what I will call a "golf ego". That ego mandates that they not only have the latest and greatest in equipment, but that they be seen with it as well. That ego mandates that they not only play the greatest of courses but that others know they did so. For example, why do people pay $500 to play Pebble Beach and perhaps the $1,000 for the Lodge to get on. If you have the disposable income to do that fine, congratulations. But I suspect there are some that will extend themselves financially, just to be able to say they played it.

Fortunately, I have a wife to help keep me in check. "What do you mean you need a new driver, you just got that one two years ago. Will a new one make that much difference in the way you play". That requires that I be honest with myself, and the honest answer is no.
 
ButchE said:
you won't touch a lease here for $30/Ac....better dig a LOT deeper....most here run 100-150, depending on location
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True, all depends on location.

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My equipment is for the most part newer, yet it really doesnt change my score. I could be playing the set i had in highschool and probably post the same scores. You don't have to spend alot on golf unless you want to. I have a few friends that are using clubs from early 2000's to 1990's and still shoot just as well and many times better than any of us with new EQ. Golf can very easily be affordable. Play twilight times or buy the "bargain books" that give you 18 holes for the 9 holes price. If you want to play golf you can make it very affordable. Just have to be willing.
 
ButchE said:
you won't touch a lease here for $30/Ac....better dig a LOT deeper....most here run 100-150, depending on location
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Ha! Thats dirt cheap. I wish we had those prices here in So.Tx.
 
jacob1 said:
I totally agree that companies shouldn't be asked to lower prices. Or clubs to lower there greens fee. All I'm saying is that golf isn't what most people outside of golfers would be considered a cheap hobby. I'm an avid hunter and I spend a good bit of money on that. However if you where on a hunting forum those guys are going to tell you how cheap hunting is and probably say how expensive golf is. LOL because there oppinion is swayed just like most here. And that's ok.
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I guess it depends how you look at it. You watch TV and are loaded with the price of new cars, advertised constantly, but I think a little simple common sense would allow for some research to realize there are cheaper used options to be had. When i start a new hobby, the first thing I do is consider the price of new equipment vs buying used, and whether the used equipment is (1) better value, and (2) not at reduced quality despite being used.

Maybe it comes from years of buying budget hockey equipment, I just figured it was common sense to weigh options regardless of what's advertised.
 
Canadan said:
I guess it depends how you look at it. You watch TV and are loaded with the price of new cars, advertised constantly, but I think a little simple common sense would allow for some research to realize there are cheaper used options to be had. When i start a new hobby, the first thing I do is consider the price of new equipment vs buying used, and whether the used equipment is (1) better value, and (2) not at reduced quality despite being used.

Maybe it comes from years of buying budget hockey equipment, I just figured it was common sense to weigh options regardless of what's advertised.
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Well crap. There's no way I would buy a brand new car. That's the worst investment anyone could make. But that has nothing to do with the price of golf.
 
jacob1 said:
Well crap. There's no way I would buy a brand new car. That's the worst investment anyone could make. But that has nothing to do with the price of golf.
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Doesn't it?

Brand new car =/= Brand new driver
Used car =/= used driver

One gives you the latest and greatest (at a large price), and one gives you perfectly solid tech for substantially less. Again, I think it's simple logic that would stop someone from perceiving golf club acquisitions to be anything different.
 
Thread skim...

The median household income in this country is 51K a year. If you are single and making that kind of coin then sure, golf is probably affordable. But we're talking about families and kids. Anyone who has some realizes 51K isn't much after all of life's normal expenses...start doing the math and you realize pretty quickly there isn't much disposbale income left. Sure, we can get last year model drivers for a $100...but if your income is at or near the median levels that $100 is A LOT of money. Need a glove, shoes, balls, costs $10 a pop to go hit balls at the range...and we still haven't paid for an actual round of golf or bought any kind of golf clothes or had any kind of instruction. So you are basically asking a family to spend a huge percentage of their disposable income in any given month on something they have no idea if their kid is going to like.
 
Every sport/hobby can be as cheap or as expensive as you want to make it. As has been mentioned numerous times, it's incredibly easy to find good quality used clubs for 1/4 or less the cost of a brand new driver, iron set, putter, etc. There are usually cheap golf courses in every town as well, not to mention that hitting range balls is also incredibly reasonably priced.

The problem is that people see the prices for brand new clubs and top notch courses and just think/believe that it's the only way to play golf.
 
I love articles like this. When were those stock numbers taken? I mean, Callaway may be down 10% but were they up at any point this year? I would venture to say yes.

I understand golf has lost some people but that has to do with so many factors. Golf can be affordable to all levels. You don't need a private club to be able to play. You don't need the latest and greatest clubs or gear. Instruction is very affordable as well.

I think kids are more on a tech kick and are going that route early. My son loves golf but also loves his ipad, his soccer ball and his bike. I am not rich and he can still play and be taught by someone else other than me.

To me Tiger represents the housing market. When he came on the scene, golf grew by leaps and bounds. The influx would have provided huge spike in participation from the previous year. Had he not come on the scene golf would have kept at its previous growth rate. What we are experiencing is really were we should be. Just like the housing market. It grew out of control, people thought it would last, it crashed and now we are back at our new normal.

What companies miss are those fat pockets. They are still making money just not as much. Time to retool the projections.
 
Where are you guys finding courses for $20-$30? Even for muni's on golf now I can't find that. Maybe I need to move, but finding deals to play for $45... is still $45... and if that's not expensive to you, well congratulations, it is for me. Yes, evening rates are better, and I take advantage of those when I can. BUT weekday and twlight rates are cheeper for a reason...no one can play then.... we have jobs.

I don't mean to rant but...there has to be a way to play cheaper. I can only go maybe once a month, twice if I break it into twlight 9's. I love this sport, it's been in my family for generations, I grew up with it. But after 30 years of playing, I still struggle to break 100 consistantly, because I can't afford to play (or pratice, or get lessons) consistantly.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Thread skim...

The median household income in this country is 51K a year. If you are single and making that kind of coin then sure, golf is probably affordable. But we're talking about families and kids. Anyone who has some realizes 51K isn't much after all of life's normal expenses...start doing the math and you realize pretty quickly there isn't much disposbale income left. Sure, we can get last year model drivers for a $100...but if your income is at or near the median levels that $100 is A LOT of money. Need a glove, shoes, balls, costs $10 a pop to go hit balls at the range...and we still haven't paid for an actual round of golf or bought any kind of golf clothes or had any kind of instruction. So you are basically asking a family to spend a huge percentage of their disposable income in any given month on something they have no idea if their kid is going to like.
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To me that's just saying golf is hard to get into for a youth player, especially one who doesn't have family members who play -- I can't argue that for a second, and it'll always be a struggled as compared to the price of a football, basketball, or of that nature.

However, many of the local ranges around here have clubs that kids can use rather than bringing their own, plus a variety of putt putt options to plant the putting seed. I don't think it's out of this world impossible to get into golf or to even see if a kid LIKES golf.
 
capt.dru said:
Ha! Thats dirt cheap. I wish we had those prices here in So.Tx.
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that's because you have lots $$ people there,obviously...people who think it's worth that to hunt/kill an animal.... I don't pay 30/150/or what you all pay..I hunt free on National forest..1 million ac to hunt....no animal is worth paying anymore than ammo to kill...not to me. YMMV
 
Tadashi70 said:
I love articles like this. When were those stock numbers taken? I mean, Callaway may be down 10% but were they up at any point this year? I would venture to say yes.

I understand golf has lost some people but that has to do with so many factors. Golf can be affordable to all levels. You don't need a private club to be able to play. You don't need the latest and greatest clubs or gear. Instruction is very affordable as well.

I think kids are more on a tech kick and are going that route early. My son loves golf but also loves his ipad, his soccer ball and his bike. I am not rich and he can still play and be taught by someone else other than me.

To me Tiger represents the housing market. When he came on the scene, golf grew by leaps and bounds. The influx would have provided huge spike in participation from the previous year. Had he not come on the scene golf would have kept at its previous growth rate. What we are experiencing is really were we should be. Just like the housing market. It grew out of control, people thought it would last, it crashed and now we are back at our new normal.

What companies miss are those fat pockets. They are still making money just not as much. Time to retool the projections.
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That's the absolute truth about Callaway. Year to year increase.

The fat pockets you're referring to, I bet in large part is big business. I remember when golf was nearly an every day thing for a Sales rep with a membership at my course in 2004 or so. That has changed quite a lot.
 
huhhh said:
Where are you guys finding courses for $20-$30? Even for muni's on golf now I can't find that. Maybe I need to move, but finding deals to play for $45... is still $45... and if that's not expensive to you, well congratulations, it is for me. Yes, evening rates are better, and I take advantage of those when I can. BUT weekday and twlight rates are cheeper for a reason...no one can play then.... we have jobs.

I don't mean to rant but...there has to be a way to play cheaper. I can only go maybe once a month, twice if I break it into twlight 9's. I love this sport, it's been in my family for generations, I grew up with it. But after 30 years of playing, I still struggle to break 100 consistantly, because I can't afford to play (or pratice, or get lessons) consistantly.
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Maybe this is because of where I live, but every public course/semi-private course where I'm from allows anybody and everybody to use their practice facilities. It doesn't cost me anything except time and a little bit a gas to go out and work on my short-game/putting. I don't know if places where you live charge for that, but if they don't that is an option that could help you score better.
 
Until people start talking with their wallets by not golfing or buying gear nothing will change.

Courses are for profit and will charge what they need to

Golf companies are for profit and will charge whatever they deem necessary for their goods.

Until the Demand declines enough in both situations the executives over both aspects of golf won't change much
 
mikedean441 said:
Until people start talking with their wallets by not golfing or buying gear nothing will change.

Courses are for profit and will charge what they need to

Golf companies are for profit and will charge whatever they deem necessary for their goods.

Until the Demand declines enough in both situations the executives over both aspects of golf won't change much
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completely agree with this.. if someone is going to buy a $399 driver why would they lower the price? The only way is to not buy the stuff but there are plenty of people who can. And if they continue the price will continue to rise. Just like anything else. But really, 4.5 hours of relaxation and enjoyment is worth $60 for me. Where else do you get that. I could spend that in a bar or resturant in 60 minutes.
 
I cant get past when people say its not expensive once the initial investment is done with. While that big investment may be over with it is still very much a thing that maintains a good expense to keep. Now I guess it all depends on just what one considers expensive or not. Its very easy to judge that it is cheap if you are fortunate enough to have the disposable income to cover it without any worries. But truth is that goes for just about everything and anything we do.

Even a couple hundred a month for limited amounts of golf and its related expenses is a lot of money for a lot of people to be spending. And even that amount is with compromising and limiting the whole thing. As said earlier, golf is not something most people can severely limit while still maintain decency at it in order to enjoy it. Its just not that kind of recreation.

It is very true that other recreations can be far more expensive than that but that is also why many people don't and cant do them. Nothing is free and nowadays everything is expensive. I always joke that eventually we'll have to pay 5 bucks just to wake up in the morning. Another 5 to breathe and if you want clean air well, who knows what that will cost. But although I joke its not really funny. Life is expensive and everything we do is expensive and its all relative to your financial situation as to just what one considers expensive. Its very easy to state that something is cheap enough when you have it to spend.

Golf is not a necessity, not a need, but is 100% a want. Well unfortunately many just cant.
 
Canadan said:
To me that's just saying golf is hard to get into for a youth player, especially one who doesn't have family members who play -- I can't argue that for a second, and it'll always be a struggled as compared to the price of a football, basketball, or of that nature.

However, many of the local ranges around here have clubs that kids can use rather than bringing their own, plus a variety of putt putt options to plant the putting seed. I don't think it's out of this world impossible to get into golf or to even see if a kid LIKES golf.
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I understand what you are saying, Dan. Some of the suggestions strike me as being theoretically possible but not entirely realistic. Could you imagine signing a kid up to play basketball without them owning their own ball or tennis shoes? Baseball if they had to borrow a glove?

We are blessed to be able to afford much of the expenses associated with getting our kids into golf, but I have to say, even for me it can hurt at times. My kids are ready for their 2nd set and I've been hunting for deals...its going to be a couple hundred for a decent 4 or 5 piece set so I'm likely going to buy 1 set and an extra bag and let them share it. I don't take them to regulation courses yet. The executive courses near me don't have children's rates, so it's $25-$30 total for 2 of us to play 9 - maybe a touch lower at twilight. That isn't all the money in the world or anything but it isn't such little money that we can do it every day either. Then on top of that you don't know who you are going to be paired with and if they are going to be horses' rear ends about playing with kids or not, dealing with pace of play is a hassle, etc. I just find this isn't the easiest thing to do, and I am a golf fanatic. The average person isn't going to go through all of this.

I realize I'm digressing from the cost aspect, but compared to nearly every other sport where you buy some shoes or maybe a glove and drop your kid to practice 2x a week where they play with kids their own age, golf is just so much harder to get started. (I think I read that the PGA is starting something that is like a Golf Little League...that would be awesome).
 
It is still the viewed as one of the best way to handle business.
Canadan said:
That's the absolute truth about Callaway. Year to year increase.

The fat pockets you're referring to, I bet in large part is big business. I remember when golf was nearly an every day thing for a Sales rep with a membership at my course in 2004 or so. That has changed quite a lot.
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ATLGolfer said:
It's as expensive as you want to make it. But golf can also be pretty reasonably priced (compared to other hobbies and sports) and very enjoyable.

Would I like to join the private club intown that requires tens of thousands of dollars to join? Absolutely, but that's not in the cards right now. However, I am able to have some pretty reasonable options for practice and playing.

Clubs are the same. You can get incredible value looking at last year's clubs (or clubs from earlier this season). It's doable.
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I agree on all points.
 
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