Golf - Born with it, learned or somewhere in between?

I saw an article years ago where a guy was asking pros to hold one golf ball in the palm of their hand, and then try to stack 2 golf balls on top of the 1st and hold them in balance. I can't remember the exact results, but I believe he said a good number of pros could do this while very few average joes could. The writer's point was that the pros did have innate physical abilities that made them better athletes and golfers (I.e. they were born with it).

I would think that golfers who played as kids were able to pick up the game much quicker than those who started as adults. But I think natural athletic ability has to come into play in either case.

I'd be curious to see how fast low-handicappers were able to break 90, and then 80. There was a thread that touched on this, but I saw many with the same experiences I had. I started playing at 12 in the Summer before 8th grade. I could immediately break 45 on 9 holes and I played for my Jr. High team in 8th grade where I shot in the 30's several times and rarely over 43 (we played 9-hole matches). By the 9th grade I was playing in the 70's over 18 holes.

I'm sure there are many golfers who lacked the natural ability, but grinded and practiced their way to low scores.

i suspect they represent a minority of low-handicappers. I also expect that some play on the tour, but I would bet that most were born with it.

In my mind, it isn't an either/or but an and.

I think we're all born with different degrees of innate athletic ability but I think how much we use it when we are young and at that age where we learn better and faster than at any other time of our life does have a bearing on how "natural" an activity will be for us throughout our life.

On top of that, whether one is exposed to good training/coaching has a huge impact as well. The golf swing is a precise and delicate thing. Subtle changes in posture, grip and alignment (PGA) have huge impacts in how the ball is struck and where it goes. Without proper education and guidance on those things, it is hard to develop a good swing. If there are bloodlines in golf, I don't think it is purely nature (genetics) but probably a lot of nurture (parent passing on insight and knowledge) in that.

I played golf casually as a child (from about 10 or so) and never really had any formal instruction. I remember reading "Golf My Way" when I first started playing and that was it in terms of instruction. I developed some good things in my youth (a reasonably good swing) but also some bad things (wrong grip). That wrong grip created lots of problems over the years and now that I have fixed it my ball striking has improved a lot. If I had it all to do over again, I really wish I had gotten some GOOD lessons earlier in my life. I would have played a lot better, and more, golf over the last 45 years or so.

After than long ramble, to answer the original question, IMO, you're born with some of it and you learn it too but don't forget that someone needs to teach it. And what needs to be taught and learned are the basic foundations of the swing and an understanding of how that works so the player can grow.

There was an interesting exchange this morning on GC. One of the hosts asked something like "If you were a kid and I was your instructor and I asked you to hit 100 sand shots how many would you have hit?" The other host answered something like a thousand. They then went on discuss how much work the pros put into their games.

I don't believe that those with given athletic ability can be so very good at any sport/game if they just worked hard enough at them. Imo not all pro foot,bask,base, ball players can also play the other games at the same level if they just worked hard at them. And imo certainly not golf.

There are basic talents like speed, jumping, lateral movements, strengths, quickness, and a 6th sense, etc, that are similar in some parts of some sports and is why "some" athletes can perform well in any of them and even excel. But its far from "all sports" and far from "all athletes". And its even also far from different positions in each sport.
If any pro athlete could excel at any sport/game then they certainly should be able to at least excel at anything within their own sport and we all know that's not the case. Each thing is too unique besides the basic talents and golf is very unique.

If all athletes were able to excel in anything if they just worked hard at it, than you wouldn't find a baseball team ever short any pitchers, or lacking in the lineup, or in nead of a shortstop, or a football team short a quarterback, or needing a pass rusher, or running back, etc, etc. Nor would just any these guys also golf at a high level, nor would just any pro golfer play anything else he wanted at a high level. There is a uniqueness not only for each sport/game but also for doing different things within that sport/game. Golf is very unique imo. There are great athletes who would never be great at golf and vice versa.

Now, as for the "god given" talents in itself playing their roll in just how far one will go in their profession? I sure do believe everyone will only ever get so far no matter how hard they work at it. There is also something else imo with golf (I've mentioned in other threads) and not only is it the ability to play it, but an ability to consistently do it. I believe there is also a natural talent required for being consistent (or repetitive) in itself. I believe that is a separate natural given talent as well. So imo there are two forces (for lack of a better word) at work here. There is natural talent for being able to do the required tasks. And then also a natural talent for being able to then do them consistently. And imo "everyone" is going to be limited at both no matter what they do. Those limits may be higher than where the person is currently performing but they will exist.

Hypothetically, given all other factors and life's outside forces such as allowed resources not being any issue for anyone, and given all have the same dedication and motivation, there are imo still going to be a small percent of pros in anything and then there will be the rest of the masses. Not just everyone imo can be a scratch player, nor a 8hc, nor a 12hc.

Imo there are plenty who have all the talents for the skills and also the talents for the consistency but don't have the resources or the mental dedication, or life gets in the way, or they never tried, other choices were made and honestly they never even knew it. Basically there are doctors, auto mechanics, bankers, sanitation workers, etc just about anything consisting of those who could be great pro's in a given sport/game and never even knew it, nor ever would we. But that doesn't mean at all that anyone can get as far as they wish in any sport/game by working hard at it. The farthest one will ever get is where ever their own natural limits for that task and for being consistent with that task end. The hard work and dedication imo can indeed bring one to a top level but its "their own" top level and if ones top level happens to be among the best in the world then well, that's who we see on TV.

So there imo certainly is a natural "given". A "given" for how well one can perform a task. And a "given" for how often (or consistently) they can do it.

Thinking about some of the celebrity pro-ams I've seen and lots of athletes from baseball, basketball or football are low single digit cappers.

Almost all of them picked up the game after they turned pro in their given sport.

Of course theirs Barkley who love the game who has a nice swing away from the ball and yet is a mental midget when it comes to actually hitting the ball.

To me this says some have a natural ability to be athletic and with work can be good at any sport but it takes both the physical and mental side to be good

Didn't read all the responses so not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but Michael Jordan is arguably the greatest athlete of any of our lifetimes. He is probably the best basketball player ever and was good enough to play AA baseball at the age of 31 after not picking up a bat in 13 years. That is special. And despite his athletic gifts and hand eye coordination he isn't that good of golfer(relatively speaking). I think he has been playing for close to 30 years, has had top notch coaching, played quite often at great courses and I think he is just now maybe cracking a 5 or so handicap(I could be wrong about that but it's close). While that is definitely something to be respected, but it just shows that golf isn't just something that any great athlete can pickup and be good at. The greatest of all time has been playing majority of his life and spent many of resources to merely be a really good golfer. I think golf, just like almost anything else in this world is something you are born with. You can practice, practice practice, but if you're not naturally gifted at it than you will only be really good, vs. a professional like the naturals are.

IMO, natural ability is much more important that coaching. The majority of scratch golfers I know have had less than 10 formal lessons in their lifetime. I started at age 12 or 13 and was a scratch by age 16 without ever having a lesson. When I played in college maybe 1/3 of the golfers had some sort of regular coach. The best player at our club by far is 17 years old(he started at 13)and has had a handful of lessons in his life. 2 of the 4 pros at my club have never had a lesson. Scratch golfers also tend to be great at other activities that require precision such as shooting pool or skeet.

Not every diamond can be gem quality, but every diamond can shine with some hard work and some luck, just as gems start out as rough stones, it's the potential within and making the right choices to maximize what you've got. Some just got more than others to start with.

golfinFF said:

Thinking about some of the celebrity pro-ams I've seen and lots of athletes from baseball, basketball or football are low single digit cappers.

Almost all of them picked up the game after they turned pro in their given sport.

Of course theirs Barkley who love the game who has a nice swing away from the ball and yet is a mental midget when it comes to actually hitting the ball.

To me this says some have a natural ability to be athletic and with work can be good at any sport but it takes both the physical and mental side to be good

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The Barkley reference is a good point, I didn't really think about that at all.

tahoebum said:

IMO, natural ability is much more important that coaching. .

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I do think in the end with all else being equal those more fortunate in natural ability will be the ones to go the furthest (and also perhaps get there faster) but I don't think that really means its more important. For very many its the importance of the coaching (learning, instruction, work ethics) which only then allows one to reach his maximum natural ability. Conversely there are those imo with great natural ability but due to poor coaching and work ethics simply never reach it. So more important? I don't think is a good description but certainly more fortunate. Then its just a matter of whether or not or how much of it is reached or gets wasted.
The saying - "there's nothing worse than a waste of talent"

Plin said:

Not every diamond can be gem quality, but every diamond can shine with some hard work and some luck, just as gems start out as rough stones, it's the potential within and making the right choices to maximize what you've got. Some just got more than others to start with.

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And also to finish with.

Tadashi70 said:

Anyone that is top in their field has worked for it for a very long time. There are exception to the rule that are born with it. 'It' being a natural talent or propensity for a particular skill. Mike trout in baseball, LeBron in basketball, Jack in golf, manning in football, Bill Gates in the tech world..you get the point. These are exceptions to the rule.

Everyine else at the top of their game has dedicated their lives to their craft from a young age. They focused on their craft and that craft only at some point.

I have yet to meet a golfer that started late in life make anything of their game. And when I say anything, I mean a top level game. It's very difficult to perfect this game if starting late, no pro and no time dedicated to getting better. Hackers that achieve were born with Athletic talent. Those that aren't have to work and that is more than likely over 90% of those that play.

So to.answer the question, most work for the games they have. Whether that be from ansnsge 6 to present of age 25 to present. Those born with athletic talent have an easier time of it but still must work.

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that highlighted bit: have you read anything about this guy called Dan and his "danplan"? He is trying to become a professional and says he'll devote 10.000 hours to do so.

He has about 4125 hours left and is about a 3.1 index now. I think he's not going to make it, his handicap has only dropped 2.8 strokes in two years. How about you?


On-topic: I have had to learn it. Sure I have the perseverance and the hand-eye coordination, I enjoy training and really improving. But that's it: I've been training and getting some lessons here and there to actually get better.
I used to play other ball sports on a high amateur level, had to work hard then too.

I had a little native ability, but that only got me to breaking 100. My recent improvements have been because of lessons and practice.

Both. My game was about where it is now when I had to give up because my back (SI Joint) got to where if I played on the weekend I couldn't make it to work Monday. About 4 years ago I found a good bone cracker and got the back fixed up to where I could play again.
My once powerful and repeatable draw turned into a slice and no improvement meant either frustration or lessons. I went with lessons.