A question for the scientists

tequila4kapp

Tom Watson called to say “Hi”
Albatross 2024 Club
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
40,882
Reaction score
10,757
Location
Tigard, OR
Handicap
USGA 13.5
I'm trying to help my middle school son find source materials for a science project. The experiment involves measuring the boiling point of water at different altitudes. I've taken him to the library, etc., and have come up blank. It's almost like we don't know enough about science to use the right search terms...water vapor, boiling point... Nothing. Are there some magic words to use? Is this in a specific area of science? Is there some other way to narrow this down? (I know the scientific answer to the experiment, the goal is to get reference materials for the kid so he can learn it himself).
 
I'll explain the process to get sources through Google and then you can go from there.

So google whatever you need such as "boiling point of water at altitude." Then click the books tab. Now go through the list and find one that seems to be educational. It should allow you to preview the part of the book containing your search. Once inside the preview at the bottom of the left tab is usually the publishing information. Look for peer reviewed journals, university or professional research surveys / studies. Any of those are acceptable.

So my quick search got these two.

1.) Geothermal Exploration and Development in Nevada Through 1973
By Larry J. Garside
2.)Chemistry: The Practical Science, Volume 10
By Paul B. Kelter, Michael D. Mosher, Andrew Scott

If you need more sources than you just redo the process using terms located in one of the first sources.
 
We found this one and it is great. He's supposed to have 4 sources, at least 2 of which need to be books.

Send me your e-mail address and I can send the engineering data we use. It's an actual book but I can send you the PDF.
 
Send me your e-mail address and I can send the engineering data we use. It's an actual book but I can send you the PDF.

Just sent you the PDF. There's a good bit of information there but if I can figure it out, a color blind monkey can.
 
We found this one and it is great. He's supposed to have 4 sources, at least 2 of which need to be books.
Tell your son this, I work with mechanical engineers on a daily basis who don't fully understand these concepts. If he wraps his head around thermal dynamics, he will be in a really good place.
 
Tell your son this, I work with mechanical engineers on a daily basis who don't fully understand these concepts. If he wraps his head around thermal dynamics, he will be in a really good place.

Blu can talk about mechE's being boneheads for quite a while hahaha

EngineeringToolbox is a great site in general, good place to start on a number of concepts.
 
Blu can talk about mechE's being boneheads for quite a while hahaha

EngineeringToolbox is a great site in general, good place to start on a number of concepts.
Mr. Eff Face and I had a good conversation this week. He ordered his parts today.
 
Tell your son this, I work with mechanical engineers on a daily basis who don't fully understand these concepts. If he wraps his head around thermal dynamics, he will be in a really good place.

Basic Principles of Steam aren't quite so basic. It's a bit more in depth than the application of heat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Basic Principles of Steam aren't quite so basic. It's a bit more in depth than the application of heat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agreed. But Steam is still pretty simple. It's complicated because many people in the industry have a hard time with latent and sensible energy and utilization of each with specific process applications.
 
Mr. Eff Face and I had a good conversation this week. He ordered his parts today.

Yeah, you just deal with it, Mr. Eff Face!!

izcOK4m.gif
 
Agreed. But Steam is still pretty simple. It's complicated because many people in the industry have a hard time with latent and sensible energy and utilization of each with specific process applications.

Actual conversation I had this afternoon.

Engineer "The dang boiler won't light again, come fix it!"
Me "I'll get a guy headed that way"
Tech "Gas is turned off at the boiler. I don't know why it's off and no one can tell if it can be turned on"
Me "Mr. Engineer, the gas is turned off. Is it safe to turn back on or is there an issue?"
Engineer "Hell, I know the gas is off. I need steam not gas! Make it fire!!"
Me "I don't think you understand how combustion works."
 
Actual conversation I had this afternoon.

Engineer "The dang boiler won't light again, come fix it!"
Me "I'll get a guy headed that way"
Tech "Gas is turned off at the boiler. I don't know why it's off and no one can tell if it can be turned on"
Me "Mr. Engineer, the gas is turned off. Is it safe to turn back on or is there an issue?"
Engineer "Hell, I know the gas is off. I need steam not gas! Make it fire!!"
Me "I don't think you understand how combustion works."
2000px-Fire_triangle.svg.png
 
kapp - if you're having trouble finding book references, Google "cooking at high altitudes." There have to be cookbooks that discuss this, and at least one or two of them have to discuss the physics involved. It has the added side effect that your son will see there are really important real-world implications of all these science assignments and concepts.

Everyone else - As an engineer (but a polymer engineer), I resemble all those disparaging remarks.

Long ago, I had this actual conversation with a chemical engineer from Carnegie-Mellon University.

ME: We're having problems with Extruder #2. It's not stripping enough of the volatiles out and we're out of spec high.

HE: What's the vacuum on the vents?

ME: Pretty good. We're at 29.5" mercury (Hg).

HE: Why don't you just turn it up to 32" or 33"?

For all you non-engineers, a perfect vacuum is 29.92" Hg. It's impossible to get a bigger number - sort of like taping an "11" to the amplifier in This Is Spinal Tap.
 
I'm trying to help my middle school son find source materials for a science project. The experiment involves measuring the boiling point of water at different altitudes. I've taken him to the library, etc., and have come up blank. It's almost like we don't know enough about science to use the right search terms...water vapor, boiling point... Nothing. Are there some magic words to use? Is this in a specific area of science? Is there some other way to narrow this down? (I know the scientific answer to the experiment, the goal is to get reference materials for the kid so he can learn it himself).

This would probably fall under Chemistry/Physics (probably both, depending on which subspecialty) in the sciences and Thermodynamics in the engineering field. A textbook would likely be your best bet for something like this. It's been forever, as I don't really work on physical systems these days, but a decent keyword to look for this stuff would be "vapor pressure" - a liquid boils when its vapor pressure is equal to the atmospheric pressure, and vapor pressure is a function of temperature.

Some of the references in this wikipedia article might be of use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapour_pressure_of_water
 
I'm trying to help my middle school son find source materials for a science project. The experiment involves measuring the boiling point of water at different altitudes. I've taken him to the library, etc., and have come up blank. It's almost like we don't know enough about science to use the right search terms...water vapor, boiling point... Nothing. Are there some magic words to use? Is this in a specific area of science? Is there some other way to narrow this down? (I know the scientific answer to the experiment, the goal is to get reference materials for the kid so he can learn it himself).

If you still need books, a couple of good references are:

1. CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics (CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 95th Edition, page 6-91 shows the vapor pressure of water at different pressures)
2. Lange's Handbook of Chemistry
 
This is all awesome stuff guys. THPrs really are the best. Thank you!
 
Talk about a thread miles over my head! Need your toilet unclogged....i'm your guy!
 
Back
Top