How has forgiveness helped you?

Trout Bum

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With all the new technology out there, a lot of clubs are being built with forgiveness in mind.

How has that forgiveness worked for you? mishits go further? ball goes straighter? massive distance gains?

Are you hitting more fairways and greens?
 
I'll be perfectly honest in saying that the only advancement in technology that's helped my game significantly is the ball.
 
I'll be perfectly honest in saying that the only advancement in technology that's helped my game significantly is the ball.

I urge anybody that comes to a THP Event to test out one of the older drivers we have and then hit whatever they are playing.
The difference is night and day. From the original Whale Driver from Wilson to the Bubble Burner from TaylorMade and the Howitzer from Titleist.
You can hit these and then hit your own side by side and see what happens. Lower spin, higher launch and more distance (especially on off center hits).
 
I urge anybody that comes to a THP Event to test out one of the older drivers we have and then hit whatever they are playing.
The difference is night and day. From the original Whale Driver from Wilson to the Bubble Burner from TaylorMade and the Howitzer from Titleist.
You can hit these and then hit your own side by side and see what happens. Lower spin, higher launch and more distance (especially on off center hits).

I will concede to the Driver part for sure.
 
I will concede to the Driver part for sure.

Honestly it's the same across the board.
If people don't want to use it, or it does not fit their eye, that is a different story and totally understandable.
But MOI and Gear Effect are real things and are measurable.
Lower spin, lower CG, etc through new materials, moving of mass are all things that have occurred and continue to occur.

It has to be embraced, and not everybody will or can, but it's real and measurable.
The hollow body design is the perfect example of this.
 
I agree on drivers, they are longer and higher than ever
 
Honestly it's the same across the board.
If people don't want to use it, or it does not fit their eye, that is a different story and totally understandable.
But MOI and Gear Effect are real things and are measurable.
Lower spin, lower CG, etc through new materials, moving of mass are all things that have occurred and continue to occur.

It has to be embraced, and not everybody will or can, but it's real and measurable.
The hollow body design is the perfect example of this.


Totally areee with that, it's measurable and real. Personal preferances aside though, is it noticable in stats and score?
 
Totally areee with that, it's measurable and real. Personal preferances aside though, is it noticable in stats and score?

Yes. Its completely measurable. Again though a person has to want to play and be able to play it.

Easy way to look at it is like this.
If one concedes that it works in a driver, what would be the reason it wouldnt work in a smaller package? Thinner faces, new materials, weight movement and even hollow bodies (like metal woods) all exist now.
All of them do what they are intended to do from a technology stand point. Whether or not the golfer wants to use that is up to them.

An example would be if a golfer likes to move the ball and flight the ball a lot. A lower spinning iron that wants to fly high and straight (meaning less spin) is not going to be ideal for them. Would it help them hit it straighter? Sure would. Spin is only on one axis at a time, so removing it, means less everywhere. Would they like it as much? Probably not.
 
A more forgiving driver helps me keep the ball in play more...& with more forgiving irons I have more GIRs and my misses are not as bad. I am just a weekend golfer that never practices...GOLF is hard...forgiveness makes it more fun :}
 
Drivers and fairway woods are longer and more forgiving than a decade ago but it hasn't made a big difference for me, only about 5 yards in extra distance and less than 5% in dispersion. I'm in the minority here but I hit my 2 wood much straighter than any driver, even though it has a much smaller club head and sweetspot.

Irons I would argue are a different animal. I switched to a less forgiving set if irons recently and they give me better control of my shots and tighter dispersion. For me the iron shaft is more important than the clubhead.
 
I honestly don't know if my interest in the game would be as high as it is without having a bag packed with forgiveness. I can basically miss the groves on the irons and still not lose any distance or launch. The MOI on my putter makes it much more stable and therefore accurate. The high toe on my PM grinds allow me to get out of tough spots with relative ease. This has lowered my scores without me having to practice like a mad man. It makes the game much more fun.
 
More distance and less penal misses (related to distance) have been the biggest benefits for me
 
Driver distance and distance on off center hits puts me in scoring position much more often. When having fun at the range I'll take my old TM firesole driver and the performance loss/consistency to my R15 is amazing.
 
Honestly it's the same across the board.
If people don't want to use it, or it does not fit their eye, that is a different story and totally understandable.
But MOI and Gear Effect are real things and are measurable.
Lower spin, lower CG, etc through new materials, moving of mass are all things that have occurred and continue to occur.

It has to be embraced, and not everybody will or can, but it's real and measurable.
The hollow body design is the perfect example of this.
While i agree the question posed was how has it helped me.

I just use standard CB clubs and I could probably just take my Tommy armors and Cleveland 588 wedges and shoot the same scores.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
While i agree the question posed was how has it helped me.

I just use standard CB clubs and I could probably just take my Tommy armors and Cleveland 588 wedges and shoot the same scores.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I took my 1980 Taylormade irons and Powerbilt persimmon woods out this summer and shot 1 stroke over my index, but I did have a pretty good day with the flatstick. If I had to guess, playing with those clubs every day would probably raise my index 1 - 1.5 strokes, mostly because of the lack of forgivness off the 3 wood and driver.
 
With all the new technology out there, a lot of clubs are being built with forgiveness in mind.

How has that forgiveness worked for you? mishits go further? ball goes straighter? massive distance gains?

Are you hitting more fairways and greens?

Certainly the increases in forgiveness are measurable but after a number of years, and many different clubs, I had to accept that they do not help me score better. Yes my misses carried farther but the low spin movement really hampered my ability to control distances. This may be because I learned to play in the persimmon/blades/balata era when spin was a fact of life and working with it was essential to becoming a better player. This year I moved to a 10 year old iron design that spins the ball a lot more than my previous set (like 800-1000 rpms more for each iron). With the increased spin, slightly weaker lofts and no cup face design, they are at least one club shorter than the previous ones but I shot 3 rounds under par this season - my first sub 70 rounds in quite a few years. My GIRs went up 2.3 per 18 with the new irons.
 
For me the iron shaft is more important than the clubhead.


That's interesting, I switched to KBS and saw a significant difference in trajectory.

I think the weight movement has made a big difference in launch and distance for sure, but does a guy who hits is 20yds right still hit it 20yds right after switching to GI irons? How much of it is the ball?
 
That's interesting, I switched to KBS and saw a significant difference in trajectory.

I think the weight movement has made a big difference in launch and distance for sure, but does a guy who hits is 20yds right still hit it 20yds right after switching to GI irons? How much of it is the ball?

These are really two different topics. Asking if forgiveness works and asking if it matters to the person.
A ball going right is less about equipment and more about swing path. However that being said, lower spinning irons without a doubt have a ball slice and hook less.

I think its silly to debate if forgiveness exists. It can easily (and has been) tested and proven through measurements of MOI, Gear Effect and a number of other things including real world testing by both amateurs and professionals.

None of that matters if a person chooses not to embrace it. That is there choice and the mental preference and brand alliance ties are very strong. Which is fine, and goes back to one playing what they want to.

There is a constant with threads like this. The people that are usually speaking of not seeing any improvements in forgiveness are almost always single digit golfers that rarely break out of their game enhancement segment of clubs. So it would be hard to measure if it would help for them since the trial is not taking place.

Its one of the great pieces of this game. So much great stuff and if one wants to, they can embrace technology as it can assist, but they certainly don't have to and still enjoy the game and clubs that suit their head and eye the best.
 
I think the extra forgiveness is helping me in a few ways. My hybrid is a money club off the tee and WAY easier to hit high, far, and straight than a comparable 3 or 4 iron. My driver is a big ol' face that produces rock solid ball speeds on 2/3 of the face and gives me a one-way miss. My 4 wood yields great shots from literally anywhere on the face.

I will say that a couple years of using low-spin irons from 7-GW hurt my game more than helped it as I didn't see the added height required for those designs to be useful. That said, my current irons have a really good level of forgiveness low/high/heel/toe for an iron of their profile and launch/spin profile, and that helps me every time I play.
 
These are really two different topics. Asking if forgiveness works and asking if it matters to the person.
A ball going right is less about equipment and more about swing path. However that being said, lower spinning irons without a doubt have a ball slice and hook less.

I think its silly to debate if forgiveness exists. It can easily (and has been) tested and proven through measurements of MOI, Gear Effect and a number of other things including real world testing by both amateurs and professionals.

None of that matters if a person chooses not to embrace it. That is there choice and the mental preference and brand alliance ties are very strong. Which is fine, and goes back to one playing what they want to.

There is a constant with threads like this. The people that are usually speaking of not seeing any improvements in forgiveness are almost always single digit golfers that rarely break out of their game enhancement segment of clubs. So it would be hard to measure if it would help for them since the trial is not taking place.


I was thinking the same thing, it always seems that low handicap golfer for the most part seem to not benefit as much as the higher cap players. There are exceptions to that though, I saw Freddie go from a gamers set to the R11's a few years ago and just pound them, he was long and pretty accurate, I've seen similar results with other low cap players as well.

I'm genuinely curious and that's the reason for asking, not trolling. I have not had the same results as some of my lower cap counter parts and I'm wondering why? I recently hit the AP1 and a new TM club, and neither worked well, the Titleist was just dead feeling and while the TM felt good, I couldn't get the ball up in the air.
 
I think as a discussion by the decade, this concept is a dramatic change. As a discussion about total profile and what works for my swing, I think the results of ultra forgiving clubs leave a lot to be desired for me. Two very different conversations.

Its not really an opinion as much as it is an experience and in the end, what my swing and skill set allow.

All that said, I am extremely intrigued by the hollow body iron profile and have been experimenting here and there with offerings that profile in the MB range but have hollow body tech. So much that I've pulled the 4 iron and 3 hybrid in place of a hollow body 3/4 that allows me nearly total control. You live and die by contact quality but when its on its way on.
 
I was thinking the same thing, it always seems that low handicap golfer for the most part seem to not benefit as much as the higher cap players. There are exceptions to that though, I saw Freddie go from a gamers set to the R11's a few years ago and just pound them, he was long and pretty accurate, I've seen similar results with other low cap players as well.

I'm genuinely curious and that's the reason for asking, not trolling. I have not had the same results as some of my lower cap counter parts and I'm wondering why? I recently hit the AP1 and a new TM club, and neither worked well, the Titleist was just dead feeling and while the TM felt good, I couldn't get the ball up in the air.

I actually would say its less about not benefitting from them and more about not trying them due to not suiting their eye.
I dont think you are trolling buddy, its a conversation. I think there are a lot of misnomers out there about equipment, but the good news is that if people want the real info, it can be found.
 
I actually would say its less about not benefitting from them and more about not trying them due to not suiting their eye.
I dont think you are trolling buddy, its a conversation. I think there are a lot of misnomers out there about equipment, but the good news is that if people want the real info, it can be found.
And people should be encouraged to try equipment for themselves and determine whether the tech and profile suit THEIR swing rather than others.

That's what is so great about many of the companies producing equipment right now. They are considering so many types of swings and skills.
 
And people should be encouraged to try equipment for themselves and determine whether the tech and profile suit THEIR swing rather than others.

That's what is so great about many of the companies producing equipment right now. They are considering so many types of swings and skills.

Agreed. And something we say over and over.
With that said, that has little to do with tech working as its being created.
I used the example earlier in the thread about low spinning irons. Its the perfect example of this whole thing. They work as described and its impossible to argue their forgiveness in both MOI, Gear Effect and ball speeds. However someone that likes to flight the ball or move the ball around, will not like them.

That does not make forgiveness not work.
 
Agreed. And something we say over and over.
With that said, that has little to do with tech working as its being created.
I used the example earlier in the thread about low spinning irons. Its the perfect example of this whole thing. They work as described and its impossible to argue their forgiveness in both MOI, Gear Effect and ball speeds. However someone that likes to flight the ball or move the ball around, will not like them.

That does not make forgiveness not work.
I got the perception that the thread was about how forgiveness worked for the specific individual. If it took another route then that is too bad because its a really interesting question.

There's no denying the forgiveness factor.... At least I hope there isn't. If there wasn't everyone would have a 1 iron in their bag still haha #GoodLuck
 
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