The Wheels Are In Motion! Indoor Golf/Sports Facility

I posted a few days ago about opening a driving range due to the lack of any in the town I am in with two courses. After running numbers for hours this seemed like a maybe break even business idea. I was approached by someone yesterday about opening an indoor golf simulator facility. I did my due diligence and found out that this could possibly work! These are the numbers as of now:

Upstart cost would be as little as $85,730, this includes land on the corner of a Highway entering town, the building itself, furnishings, two simulators, four outdoor batting cages, landscaping, outdoor sign, lighting for batting cages, indoor putting green, and a hunting simulator (I live in Missouri so this could bring in non-golfers as well, thoughts?) Most of the work will be done by family as my father is a carpenter and does electrical and my father-in-law is a contractor.

The town has two courses and a population of 10,000 with tons of city traffic from KC 45 minutes away and a town population of 20,000 20 minutes away, and a couple towns of 8,000 30 minutes away. Also the city has a tournament that brings in actually 500+ players every year for the whole week (last post I said 400 I believe).

I would plan on doing monthly tournaments and seasonal leagues through-out the year. Probably look into a liquor license and sell for another source of income.

I would like to here your thoughts and maybe things I should look into or think about! I'll continue to update on the progress if this starts to gain traction, and if it does and you guys help out who knows maybe even let you come down and play a round on the house :call-me:

Good luck. I realize why you are using your father and father in law to work on it, but you might want to think twice about working with family, especially on a project of this size. One of my friends reluctantly hired family to rehab a home they are selling to his daughter (it is her in laws) and it is nothing but trouble for him.

Sucks to hear that! We have a good relationship and considering my dad is also a pastor (and carpenter ha) I would imagine things wouldn't get heated lol but things happen. And honestly I would be doing most the work myself and with this not being my main source of income (THANK GOD) that helps.

Now my Father-in-law is a big golfer went to the Ryder Cup on VIP passes I was pretty jealous. He told me he'd probably invest in the place to help lower risk on my end, I almost said no to not cause any money-strain relationship between us but this is also the guy who threw down $20,000 on the lot next to him so a family he wasn't fond of wouldn't live there :laughing:

What's in season and out of season there? My first thought is if I'm a golfer in the spring/summer/fall...why would I go indoors to play golf/join an monthly league other than it raining?

These places struggle big time as soon as the weather turns. And if be curious to hear your expectations of people driving 45 minutes each way in the dead of winter (as far as the heavily populated area)

Will 2 simulators be enough? Doesnt leave u a large revenue stream if people are on it 3 hours or so at a time.

These places open up and so many seem to close their doors pretty quickly, thats not be coincidence. If it were me id be looking at other ways to make money than the golf industry.

IndySC said:

What's in season and out of season there? My first thought is if I'm a golfer in the spring/summer/fall...why would I go indoors to play golf/join an monthly league other than it raining?

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Weather in Missouri is realllllllllly weird to be honest, but In-Season would probably be End of March Early April to October, but unlike a golf course you don't need daylight to play and can be open longer, a couple buddies of mine in Florida actually go to a sim golf place after work or even after a round of golf. And with this software it not only lets you play sim rounds, but also tell you swing path, swing and ball speed, impact, deviation, spin, trajectory and quite a bit more. Also after 5 rounds I believe it'll assign a handicap and constantly update it and is pretty accurate IMO and also can serve as a driving range. I would also be getting with the local club pros and let them use the software for a % of the lessons they give.

What simulators are you looking into getting? 2 of them and your cost is 85 and change? I posted in your driving range thread. The range I work at has a simulator as well. The simulator my boss went with was the PGA Tour About Golf simulator and I know they're roughly 50k a pop.

Six4three5 said:

What simulators are you looking into getting? 2 of them and your cost is 85 and change? I posted in your driving range thread. The range I work at has a simulator as well. The simulator my boss went with was the PGA Tour About Golf simulator and I know they're roughly 50k a pop.

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Maybe back when he got them but I got a quote for $6,000 a piece. They have Skytrax, vertical launch high-speed camera, projector, software, putting sensor, and ProTees base sensors.

WhiteTigerWoods said:

Maybe back when he got them but I got a quote for $6,000 a piece. They have Skytrax, vertical launch high-speed camera, projector, software, putting sensor, and ProTees base sensors.

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What company has em for 6k? I'd be curious as to their accuracy and everything. Not trying to tell you not to do it but there's a lot to it. I just did some research and AboutGolf, Trackman, Swing Catalyst are the 3 bigger well known ones for the info they provide and their accuracy and they're and they're all still going for $48K+

There is a Play-a-Round indoor facility near me in a strip mall. 6 bays with About Golf sims. Swamped all winter. Can walk in any time during the summer. The cost is big $/hr. I personally enjoy it even in the summer to get some launch condition stats to compliment what I see from my local outdoor range. It has been around for a number of years, so they seem to have the right formula for my area.

Be careful going cheap on the sims. The golf enthusiasts you want to attract won't be interested in using sims that give bogus approximations of ball flight.

Place here has 10 GolfZon sims (Korean I think). It's jammed all winter and empty all summer, but after 3 years they are still open so that must say something.
It also has a small sports bar inside.

Thanks for the input everyone! And I'll be getting bids on other Simulators, honestly I am just huge fan of "The Golf Club" software it utilizes. If someone knows where I can get a great set-up that utilizes this software that'd be great!

...is this Smithville?

aklawitter said:

...is this Smithville?

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No nice try though lol didn't give exact times just enough to get the point across

WhiteTigerWoods said:

Maybe back when he got them but I got a quote for $6,000 a piece. They have Skytrax, vertical launch high-speed camera, projector, software, putting sensor, and ProTees base sensors.

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I would do some deep checking on all of the simulators, because $6,000 for an accurate real golf simulator should come with a mask and gun for the robbery.
For a simulator golf business to be successful (and sadly most arent, which is a shame), one has to use a high end system that replicates real golf.

How does one forecast demand for a facility like this? Are there certain demographic factors (level, amount id disposable income, etc) that are informative?


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I think having a liquor license would be a big part of this being successful. Also, I'm assuming KC has something similar to what you are planning on starting so what would make people drive to your facility vs one in KC? Just throwing out a couple of thoughts for you.

sorry if i'm skimming, but i think the key to success will be to have other revenue streams. bowling alleys don't just rent time on the lane; they rent shoes and they sell cheap food and beer, then they have pool tables, video games, etc. i think you want to give people as many opportunities as possible to give you their money, without much sunk cost on your end.

regarding working with family, i have certainly seen it be successful (i'm in a family business), and i have certainly seen it be destructive. what i think you absolutely need to do is invest in a good corporate attorney to go through all of the what-could-go-wrongs and draft the documents accordingly. DON'T HOLD BACK about your expectations. it is so much better to have an honest conversation before money is spent than dumping $100,000 into it and then no one is on the same page.

as you're analyzing the annual costs and profit potential, don't forget to include your opportunity costs. if you are giving up a job with benefits (health insurance, company car, expense account, etc), that is a real cost to you. if you make $100,000 right now, that's closer to $130,000 including benefits. if you are forecasting that you can take out $60,000 a year from the business, you are losing $70,000 a year.

one last piece of advice i have is to take your estimate of the startup cost as well as annual costs and increase it by AT LEAST 50%, then re-run your forecasts.

i wish you all the best and i hope you keep us posted if you decide to move forward

I see you mention 4 outdoor batting cages, but nothing about an outdoor range other than your first thread about starting a driving range. Could you do the plan to also include the outdoor range that you originally were thinking about? Just thinking about giving you other sources of income, especially during the warmer months.

WhiteTigerWoods said:

Thanks for the input everyone! And I'll be getting bids on other Simulators, honestly I am just huge fan of "The Golf Club" software it utilizes. If someone knows where I can get a great set-up that utilizes this software that'd be great!

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I will be honest.. I lived in KC Metro for 8 years, and I wouldn't drive 45 minutes to use simulators. We have a couple of options in the city, and I never struggled to get on them, so I wouldn't count on people driving in from the city to use these.

I see these type of places like the basketball facilities that have gone up everywhere to host tournaments and camps. Everyone that runs them says they are a money pit because you can't have that place empty for long periods of time.
For something like this to be successful you need revenue streams and things that can help you make money all the time. A pro shop, bar/restaurant, arcade, mini golf, etc. otherwise you are so reliant on peak times.


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TexasHacker34 said:

I will be honest.. I lived in KC Metro for 8 years, and I wouldn't drive 45 minutes to use simulators. We have a couple of options in the city, and I never struggled to get on them, so I wouldn't count on people driving in from the city to use these.

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All IMO only...

I was sort of feeling the same way. It isn't NYC nor a close by nyc metro area where there are millions of people. Lets face it, although many people do play golf its only (even during the great influx) still only a small percent of an entire population. I think in order to profitable one would have to be one of or the only one around simply because there just isn't enough steady flow of customers. Ive even seen indoor golf facilities come and go in my NYC metro area. Granted there are more of them but there are also an extraordinary amount of population within easy reach and yet these indoor places seem to come and go. That's not to say there are not any that have survived because there are. But all in all I wouldn't invest in one in a place such as described here. Perhaps in KC itself might be better but that's assuming any already there are already overflowing with business and not barely surviving to begin with.

It kind of sucks because if you love golf (like we do) it would be awesome to do something that can earn that is related to something you love. But hey, in the end it has to be about being profitable enough and worthwhile or it isn't going to matter.

But all that being said ....Fwiw I find the price mentioned to start this up in the open pretty amazing. At least that part is very doable vs what it would take in the NYC metro area. That kind of money wouldn't even get your foot in the door to barely begin thinking about something like this. Perhaps in the 70's where all one needed was a few grand and a pair of balls...lol but nowadays its a different world. But its nice to know there are places where such money could actually allow one to consider doing this.

One thing if I may suggest is (if there is large enough land and facility is to incorporate baseball and/or basketball learning center and rented space and courts. Nowadays kids sports are extremely dominant I believe just about everywhere. At least in my area there are many basketball facilities besides all the school gyms and yet still its hard for teams to find practice times and for AAU and other leagues to find court time. But again this is in the nyc metro area where population is enormous. I don't know if such a need exists in other places. Indoor practice baseball facilities too get jammed packed. And so do indoor soccer facilities. It just seems everything and anything related to kids sports is jam packed around here. And nowadays these sports (unlike when I grew up) they go year round now and not just seasonal. Of course golf is your passion and these other things may not be what you really wanted but hey if this is what may make you successful with an opportunity to invest what is (by standards vs other places) minimal money than so be it. I just think you may have much better chance for success with things other than golf.

There was one of these places in a strip center in Sugarland (Houston Suburb)...they had a nice sports bar, good food and 4 simulator bays.....they closed in less that 2 years

Of course the big problem here is we can play outdoor golf year round.

There's one here in Iowa and the owner tells me he makes more of the bar half than he does the golf Sims. He rents the place out for birthday parties and corporate gatherings.

It's basically all just a front for his club building and teaching business anyways.

I don't think it would be too profitable with those two important aspects.

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Scrap the indoor putting green and add more simulators. Same with the hunting thing. Scrap it.
With the batting cages outside, add a putt putt course of 2 and a ice cream snack bar. That's your money maker in the summer especially weekend nights.

The place in my area is simulators only. They have about 18 I believe. Charge $43 per hour m-f and $47 per hour weekends. They let you bring your own beer.
They also have a little conference area for corporate things.
Pick a good location also.