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Question For XStiff Shaft Gamers

Nippon Shafts
Longshanks

Longshanks

Long and Wrong
Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Messages
172
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11
Location
Helena Montana
Handicap
9.4 MSGA
Alright THP'ers, let me preface this question with this: yes, I know there are a zillion posts about shafts in this forum so I apologize if this has been covered. Here is my question.

I will be upgrading my shafts this winter, specifically HZRDUS for driver and Project X LZ for irons. The problem is that I have no access to swing monitors, fitting facilities etc... Living in a small town is great...but sometimes I miss the services offered in a larger town (nearest shop to analyze swing speed is about 4 hours away). That being said I have no idea what my swing speed is, however I do know my carry distances for driver and irons:

Driver 280 - 300 depending on contact
200 yard - 5 iron
180 yards - 7 iron
150 yards - pitching wedge

I can generate good distance because I'm tall and have longer clubs. I make good contact with good ball compression and I would say I have a moderate tempo. I currently game R shafts in irons and stiff in driver and feel the ball sometimes goes awry left or right even with a good swing.

All research I've done so far (based on carry distances alone) indicates that I should be using an Xsiff shaft on irons and driver, but I'm not sure I want to go that route. I'm not looking for more distance...looking for more accuracy!

So my question is for THP'ers that have similar carry distances...what stiffness do you use in irons and driver? If you game Xstiff...how does that work out for you? How does it feel? If you made the move from stiff to Xstiff...was it difficult?

I realize that each swing is different and this is quite a subjective question, I'm just trying to get a feel for how other Xstiff gamers like their choice of shaft. I believe that I'm at a point in my game where correct shafts will make a huge difference on the course and it's time to get serious about my shaft selection.

I will be traveling to Missoula MT this winter, nearest shop with swing tech, but I'd like to arm myself with a little bit of knowledge before I make the journey.

Thanks for the input, and again, sorry if this has been covered.

Dave ~ aka Longshanks
 
My distances are shorter than yours and I use an the X100 AMT shafts in my irons and Tour Green X flex in my fairway woods. All my drivers have either an X or an S flex shaft. In fact for some of my drivers I have an X and an S flex in the same shaft. I use the S flex early season or in colder weather and the X flex once I'm in mid-season form and the weather is warmer. Keep in mind that there is no standard for flex, especially in a graphite shaft. Some heavier, low-launching "R" shafts would be a much better fit for me and play stiffer than some "S" flex shafts.

When it comes to picking shafts, feel and weight are the most important thing for me, especially in an iron shaft. Lighter iron shafts(110 grams or lighter) are less accurate for my swing tempo. The "feel" of a shaft is a subjective thing and you really need to go through a fitting and also play some rounds with a shaft to really know if it's right for you.


Here's a video that may shed some light on shaft flex.


 
Out of curiosity, what's the elevation you usually play it? Just trying to get as much info as possible. If you're at a higher elevation, the carry numbers could be a little inflated.

But judging by the numbers you provided (keep in mind I'm NO EXPERT :D) You could get away with stiff or X stiff. For irons, the LZ 6.0 or 6.5 would probably be a good fit ( figuring 180 carry with a 7 is probably somewhere in the high 80's low 90's clubhead speed range.) On the driver, a tipped stiff flex shaft is probably where I'd go. Depending on the shaft, some x flex offerings can be extremely boardy. The Hzrdus Yellow might be a good option.

I can hit either an s or x flex, but I prefer x stiff. R flex I can't control if my life depended on it. I just feel the x flex shafts give me the ball flight I want with less dispersion. And for comparison, my carry numbers are pretty comparable to yours at close to sea level, but with standard length shafts.

Bottom line, when you get into a town where fitting is an option, make sure to try as much as you can and compare the data, as well as how you felt swinging them. What works for one, might not work for the next person.
 
I play x-stiff throughout my bag. To me the feel is just stiffer. I don't really know how else to describe it. Sometimes when you waggle a club the shaft bends quite a bit, and with x-stiff that amount of bend is simply reduced. When I switched over to x-stiff from stiff, it was about 15 years ago and I was a young kid who didn't really know his swing all that well, so I can't really describe whether I thought it was easy or hard to do. I do know that I can go out and hit a stiff and even regular flex shafted club right now and not have any problems, though I'm guessing the spin and launch angles might be different.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. Kevin, I'm up at about 4K feet above sea level, so yes it does make a difference...I'm not quite that "beast mode" with out a little help. I game shafts that are 1.5 inches over too so that helps with overall swing speed. Thanks for the input so far, this is what I need so when I do get fit, I'm not totally clueless.

Also Kevin, I have been looking hard at the HZDRUS Yellow.

Mulligan, did you notice a difference in accuracy when you switched...I know it was 15 years ago lol. I'm looking to break the single digit handicap barrier...swing is good enough but I need to embrace the "science" of my swing to get me over the edge. Distance not a problem...accuracy is a bit dicey.
 
Longshanks said:
Thanks for the feedback guys. Kevin, I'm up at about 4K feet above sea level, so yes it does make a difference...I'm not quite that "beast mode" with out a little help. I game shafts that are 1.5 inches over too so that helps with overall swing speed. Thanks for the input so far, this is what I need so when I do get fit, I'm not totally clueless.

Also Kevin, I have been looking hard at the HZDRUS Yellow.

Mulligan, did you notice a difference in accuracy when you switched...I know it was 15 years ago lol. I'm looking to break the single digit handicap barrier...swing is good enough but I need to embrace the "science" of my swing to get me over the edge. Distance not a problem...accuracy is a bit dicey.
Click to expand...


I'm not an X flex player but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night

(And get paid to know about shafts)

At your distances and with your way over length builds I would definitely go with X flex in the woods. The Yellow HZRDUS would be a good option for you because the counter balancing will help with the swingweight on your overlength build. It won't completely mitigate the extra length but its better than nothing.

Irons are a little more subjective because some people prefer a softer feel in their irons. But if your irons are also that much overlength i would err on the side of stiffer than softer.

DB
 
Thanks DBTT. I'll get fitted for sure, but I have seriously HZRDUS Yellow envy right now. Actually, I only have my irons over-length...I'm almost 6'5" and my arms are short for my size, (WTF 383/4) that's why I play the over-length irons. I have cut my driver shaft down to 44.5 total driver length for improved accuracy...maybe with a Xstiff shaft I won't need to do that. Like I said I'll still get my swing analyzed this winter...but until then, Yellow 6.5 (65g) sure looks appealing.

I'm going to team it up with a new XR16...as you can see in my signature, I'm still rockin' an old FT-9. Time for an upgrade!
 
As someone who went thru the same consideration (and eventual/current transition), perhaps I can share my experiences. I have similar swing speed and distances as you, so I wasn't looking for distance gains by switching from stiff to x-stiff. After initially hitting a friend's x-stiff driver and irons for an extended period of time, I noticed that I was much more consistent and accurate. I then purchased my own set of x-stiff irons and a x-stiff shaft for my driver. Again, same results as before...better accuracy and no loss of distance. I am now about 8 months into this "experiment" and I can honestly say that it has been the best move for my golf performance. Perhaps some of it is mental (and we all know how much confidence can add to our games), but I can't ignore what I've seen. I can swing with confidence knowing the shafts are not whippy, my only focal point now is making a good swing and the ball WILL go where I intend for it to go.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Perhaps you should do a trial run too...? Some great older model X-stiff shafts for drivers can be found relatively cheaply, same with irons...I'm sure there are a few fellow THP'ers will some spare irons laying around.....
 
Great input Stevie, thanks.

I've read all of the shaft related posts and your response is very reassuring. Accuracy is what I’m seeking, and to be honest, a little less distance with my irons would be just fine with me if I switched to Xstiff. But you saw no loss in distance, but greater accuracy...I like! You made a great suggestion, the only way to try it out is hitting some balls with an Xstiff shaft. I golf left handed so access to lefty stuff is limited so I'll just order a single shaft on eBay for cheap and install it on an old head I have sitting around.

Edit...
come to think of it, I believe I have an old Titleist 983k with a Harrison Striper Titanium shaft...I think its Xstiff. I'll see if I can dig that up and head to the range before it starts snowing!
 
Longshanks said:
Great input Stevie, thanks.

I've read all of the shaft related posts and your response is very reassuring. Accuracy is what I’m seeking, and to be honest, a little less distance with my irons would be just fine with me if I switched to Xstiff. But you saw no loss in distance, but greater accuracy...I like! You made a great suggestion, the only way to try it out is hitting some balls with an Xstiff shaft. I golf left handed so access to lefty stuff is limited so I'll just order a single shaft on eBay for cheap and install it on an old head I have sitting around.

Edit...
come to think of it, I believe I have an old Titleist 983k with a Harrison Striper Titanium shaft...I think its Xstiff. I'll see if I can dig that up and head to the range before it starts snowing!
Click to expand...


Not sure how old that shaft is, but I might suggest buying a shaft similar to what you are considering for test purposes. Apple to apples comparison...? Grand scheme of things, an xstiff is an xstiff (I'm sure I'll get put on blast for even making that comment...) so you should get a general idea of what to expect. To reconfirm my prior comments, I did not experience any distance loss and my accuracy increased quite a bit.

I lucked out and landed a like-new set of irons off eBay for cheap when all I was seeking was xstiff shafts -- and they became my gamers. Go figure. I have since built my own set of irons with xstiff shafts and I love them too.
 
I'm about 10 yards shorter across the board and x-flex are necessary for me with driver, 4 wood and hybrids as my ball will balloon with shafts that are too flexible. Accuracy suffers too.

As per irons, I tend to swing easier with them and therefore prefer stiff shafts (Rifle 6.0). Wedges, wedge-flex please. Just prefer the softer feel.

Incidentally, even when I was longer, equal to or slightly longer than your numbers, I still played and preferred the above shafts.
 
Speaking of eBay, Stevie, the other day I saw a beautiful set of Apex irons with the Project X LZ steel shafts. The seller is from Keller Texas and I thought....Stevie? I lived in Corpus Christi for 6 years...nice place...crappy golf. Not only were the courses in poor shape, but it was constantly windy on the coast. The only course worth playing is Newport Dunes, Arnold Palmer design. Anyhow, if I didn't golf lefty I'd have pulled the trigger on those bad boys.

Wmac I do have a problem with the ball tending to ballon up too, especially into the wind.

Thanks for all of the input guys, I guess the only way to figure this out is to drive the 4 hours for a fitting. Not an easy task with other stupid things in your life, you know, like a job, wife, 2 kids etc... I was thinking instead of Xstiff, if the HZRDUS Yellow stiff 75 gram would work since the torque rating is only 2.7*. But again, the only true way to do this is to get fit. Road trip!
 
My averages are shorter than yours, but X100's have been working out great for me. No loss in distance, much better dispersion, and greatly improved trajectory (I'm seeing mostly 25-30 yds peak height now vs. 145+ at times). I also find it easier to flight the ball down with them as well. A lot of it for me has to do with having an abrupt transition I think.

I should have done this years ago because when I the hit balls with the Mizuno shaft optimizer it spit out all X flex options. One thing that kept me from switching was the weight, e.g I get kind of worn out hitting a lot of balls at the range. I still have that problem, but that is really the only draw back so far. I figure as I get more used to them that will improve as well. The other thing was I kept trying to find a lighter shaft that had the same flex profile, but it seems that the extra weight has something to do with the improved consistency for me. It might even be that the weight has more to do with it than the flex does, I haven't really tried that thought out yet.
 
Based on what you've said about your game and what you are looking for out of your clubs, the XS seems to be the way to go. Our distances are pretty similar (except your higher lofted irons go further than mine) and I always thought I should be using a S shaft. Why? Just because I thought the XS users were hitting it much further than me.

Thanks to THP last February, I was able to attend a UST Mamiya fitting where they put me in all XS shafts, from the Recoil's in my irons to the Elements Platinum shaft in my driver and 3W. What has happened with the change? Best driving of the ball year I've ever had since I started playing back in junior high. No distance loss (actually longer) and much much straighter. Irons are much straighter and have much less "whip" than before. Probably a result of going to Recoils but also probably has something to do with going to the XS too.

Either way, a fitting was really the only way this would have happened. It's hard to find a fitter than knows your game and what you are trying to accomplish. But when you find one it's really a game changer. Good Luck!
 
Nate said:
Irons are much straighter and have much less "whip" than before. Probably a result of going to Recoils but also probably has something to do with going to the XS too.
Click to expand...

I just installed the xstiff Recoils that Danny gave me from my visit with UST, and I love them! With them being uncut shafts, I got to fully customize them to my liking. First clubmaking exercise I ever did myself, and I am super impressed. Flushing them solid, dead straight, tight dispersion, and a slight distance gain.

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk
 
(except your higher lofted irons go further than mine)
Click to expand...

Not to mention, I'm not that "beast mode" lol ...I do live at 4000 feet plus I'm about 6'5" and my irons are 1.5" over so that accounts for a lot of my extra length.

Thanks for the info, I was going to just do all of the research on my own...but now I'm absolutely going to get fit for my swing. I can't imagine throwing down huge $$ only to get ill-fitting shafts for my clubs.
 
I just installed the xstiff Recoils that Danny gave me from my visit with UST, and I love them! With them being uncut shafts, I got to fully customize them to my liking. First clubmaking exercise I ever did myself, and I am super impressed. Flushing them solid, dead straight, tight dispersion, and a slight distance gain.
Click to expand...

Awesome Stevie, thanks. You really have provided much needed knowledge on this...once I go to get fit I'll have some idea of what I'm talking about!

More length too..nice. I think a common misnomer is that stiffer shafts will give you less distance, not being able to whip the club at contact for more club head speed I guess. I hear that if you have a decent club head speed, closing the head at impact is not a problem. My most common mistake is the fade/slice, I'm hoping the correct shaft will fix that. Yes, I know my slice is a swing issue and no shaft can fix that...but it would be sure nice to address that ball with more confidence knowing that I have the correct set up...as we all know, confidence at address goes a loooong way in golf :)
 
Wait a minute Stevie and Nate...I just checked out the Recoil iron shafts...are you gaming graphite in your irons? I thought that was a no-no for iron?!?!?!
 
Longshanks said:
Wait a minute Stevie and Nate...I just checked out the Recoil iron shafts...are you gaming graphite in your irons? I thought that was a no-no for iron?!?!?!
Click to expand...

Not at all. Recoils hold up well to high swing speeds. It's not the graphite of old. I have about a 112 SS with driver and play recoils with zero issue. I love them
 
Longshanks said:
Wait a minute Stevie and Nate...I just checked out the Recoil iron shafts...are you gaming graphite in your irons? I thought that was a no-no for iron?!?!?!
Click to expand...

Thought the same thing till I got the facts. I think more people would use them if they weren't still more expensive than steel shafts. People I talk to just aren't willing to pay almost double for something they think won't give them any advantage over the "standard". More pro's are starting to play around with graphite in their irons too; seeing more putting them in play on longer irons for sure.
 
Heavily considering getting into an X-stiff shaft for my G series driver... It's very "whippy" for a stiff shaft. I tried my buddies 714 AP2's last night with project x 6.5's in them and hit the ball beautifully.
 
Ha Nate...I've been reading the Recoil Review thread and just got to your initial comment dated March of 2013!
 
Longshanks said:
Wait a minute Stevie and Nate...I just checked out the Recoil iron shafts...are you gaming graphite in your irons? I thought that was a no-no for iron?!?!?!
Click to expand...
As already mentioned, these are not the graphites of old... My recoils are 125g and have the same properties as my xstiff kbs c-tapers. I think my kbs' flighted the ball a little lower, but the height on my recoils does not produce a ballooning shot. The other plus I give the recoils is a major reduction in collision/vibration when making contact - they are silky smooth.

Headed to Vegas tonight and will be playing Las Vegas National tomorrow. Can't wait to put the recoils in play out there!

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk
 
Headed to Vegas tonight and will be playing Las Vegas National tomorrow. Can't wait to put the recoils in play out there!
Click to expand...

Since you are testing the Recoils, let me know how it goes. I also have my eye on the Project X LZ and looking for good feedback from each. Have fun in Vegas!
 
Longshanks said:
Ha Nate...I've been reading the Recoil Review thread and just got to your initial comment dated March of 2013!
Click to expand...

I've been here awhile as you can see. Ha!

Those must have been just comments cause I didn't have them till this year. I'm not changing them anytime soon unless I can get my hands on some 125's f5 in the black with Recoil in pink lettering.
 
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