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Golf - Born with it, learned or somewhere in between?

greggdrews said:
To me its 50/50. I don't care how much you practice or how many lessons you take, if you don't have natural talent you will never be a pro. At the same time I don't care what type of talent you are born with, if you don't practice or put in the effort you will never make it.
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This is my answer exactly.
 
I believe virtually every high achieving golfer has unnatural aptitude for the sport. Skill plus incredible work ethic allows them to reach top levels.
 
fupresti said:
No one is born with it. It's heart and work and determination.
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I very much disagree. I coach youth sports. Some kids have it from day one and there some kids that could work 20 hours a day with more heart and determination than every one else and they would still never reach the same levels as the kids who are blessed. Now the natural kids have to also work to maximize their talent; not every talented kid will achieve. So I agree, there is definitely a heart and work and determination factor, but not in a way that would allow anyone to reach the top levels if they just worked and cared enough.
 
I tend to agree you given this kind of talent at birth. But it depends on what kind of pro you are talking about. Tiger was born with 'IT' factor to play golf and so have a few other greats. But guys that that make a living at it and win maybe once or to never and still keep there card are the blue collar guy that needs to out work people to stay on tour. That's how I look at it anyway.
 
fupresti said:
No one is born with it. It's heart and work and determination.
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I agree that you can't make it without heart and work and determination, but there has to be some level of natural talent as a base too right?

Here's a non-golf example. When I was in college, I played a lot of pickup basketball and could dunk relatively easily even though I'm only about 6'0''. I guess I worked at it in the sense that I played a lot and you jump a lot when you play, but I didn't put any concerted effort into improving my leaping or explosiveness or anything like that. At the same time, my brother was playing high school basketball. He is about 6'2" and a better athlete than I am in a lot of ways. But he's not a great leaper. His coach had them doing all sorts of plyometrics, etc., so he was actually working at it way harder than I was, but he was never able to dunk. So it wasn't that I had more heart and work and determination, it was just that I have more fast twitch muscles in my legs or that they fire differently or whatever it is that made me naturally able to jump higher than him.

I think it's the same basic idea with golf. If you go pick a random scratch golfer with all the heart and work ethic in the world, and give them unlimited funds so they can get the best instruction, play the best courses, etc., that person is still exceedingly unlikely to ever make it as a pro golfer. The guys that make it have both the work ethic and a base level of natural talent that almost nobody else - even including really good players - has. It's like the article about Jimmy Walker in Golf Digest recently. He had to play as a +10 in the Cordillera Cup and give 9 shots to a legitimate +1. He still won 1-up. That's a whole different level that all the hard work in the world is never going to achieve for most.
 
Google AB De Villiers and you will see it is all about natural talent. I snipped an extract from Wikipedia.

He is a talented sportsman and has excelled in golf, rugby, badminton, cricket and tennis. At his school he was part of the school's U-14 cricket team. He played golf and got a scratch handicap in it, which means he is a player whose average score for a round of golf is par or better. Rugby was the most followed sport at his school so he took it up too. He was gifted sportsman having a natural talent of anything that was a sport. He once had a flair for hockey, and made it to the U-16 side of the school. During his period as a team member his team did really well. He was shortlisted for South Africa's junior national hockey team.[7]

He returned to play rugby when he stopped with hockey. He was soon part of the school's rugby team, the 1st XV of the Affies.[8]*He performed extraordinarily well and was selected for the Blue Bulls U-18 side, which had some big names that would later represent South African rugby.[9]

He was the member of South Africa's junior Davis Cup tennis team.[7]*He was ranked in the top two in his age division for tennis in South Africa.[10]*He was also the South Africa's U-19 national badminton champion.

Other than that, he held six South African school swimming records in school and also held the record in the 100m dash in South Africa's junior athletics.[7]
 
Your born with an inherent ability to be good at something but you got to find it and hone that ability to be great at it.

The pros at every level work their tail off to be as good as they are. It's not about just working hard it's about doing it right and doing that thing right a million times perfectly that gets you to be the best.
 
fupresti said:
No one is born with it. It's heart and work and determination.
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so every one of us could be scratch if we quit our day job and devoted ourselves to it? pretty sure there are far more stories of failure for people trying to do this than success. i've been fortunate enough to play with a couple mini tour guys. they are INSANELY talented. but they'll never make it. to say guys who have kept their cards for over a decade just have more heart and work harder than everybody else doesn't really compute.
 
Great thread/conversation and one I think about often simply due to my buddies who I regularly golfer - one used to play on the Moonlight tour and played alongside the Duff a few times.

As for whether or not you are born to "be a golfer" I am not sure if I agree with that - are you born with athletic ability? Yes - but it varies from person to person. Was Tiger born to be a golfer? Many might say yes 100% - however I feel he was born with freakish athletic ability and put the time in from when he could barely walk to become the greatest for so long.

Look at Bo Jackson - was an incredible athlete in both Football AND Baseball - was he born to be an all start in BOTH Baseball and Football? I don't think so but he was born with tremendous ability and put in the time to perfect his craft.

As for the average golfer, I am going to compare myself to my friend who was playing alongside Duffner - I stand at 5'9 and weigh in at 185-190 - am I athletic with a 6 pack and huge arms? No but I am definitely strong and took to golf at the age of 13 and didn't take any lessons till I was 16 - I had a "natural" swing and had a natural fade/cut.

Further along in my "career" I played varsity golf in HS and played D3 golf in College - in College I would go to the range at the crack of dawn, play at least 9 holes, go to class, and then play 18 after that combined with lessons and everything else- it was 100% a grind and don't regret it - however I focused so much on the technical aspects that I lost the "love" for the game - so much so after college I was burnt out and took a few years off from the game and picked it up again about 4 years ago and fell back in love with it - my best score ever was a 78 - I was never a scratch golfer compared to a few of my teammates but I 100% put in the effort to play the best of my ability - I guess I didn't have the talent to go further than that.

Now as for my friend Scott - he was 2 years older than me and we played HS golf together - he stands at 6"2 and has a ton of ability - more athletic than I am and has incredible talent. Has several sub-par rounds. He moved to Florida after HS and hit thousands upon thousands of balls - he competed with some stellar played including Duffner and definitely had the passion/drive - unfortunately he developed severe tendonitis in his elbows and the swelling associated with it eliminated his chances of going further...

So I guess in all, there are people born with varying degrees of ability - it just comes down to your work ethic and if you want to utilize your ability to the greatest level....
 
KellyBo said:
I have a son who has always excelled at sports and he is near scratch with what seems to be little effort, i.e. no lessons, very little time to practice. It is amazing to me that the game has come so easy to him. He made his third double eagle last month from 275 yards out and he has three aces too. All I can do is shake my head because the rest of our family are golf addicts who work so dang hard at this game and he makes it look easy.
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I should add that my other son who was not particularly athletic growing up is an excellent golfer and got to a plus handicap. He just had to work hard to get there.
 
KellyBo said:
I should add that my other son who was not particularly athletic growing up is an excellent golfer and got to a plus handicap. He just had to work hard to get there.
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Seems to me there must be something very gifted in their bloodlines somewhere. You should be very proud of them as I'm sure you are.
 
I certainly was not born with it. Growing up, I played pretty much every sport and was able to pick it up and excel at it very quickly. I started messing around with golf in my late 20's and it is by far the most difficult sport for me to pick up any consistency or skill. I guess that's why I like it so much, but I often wonder why I just don't play tennis, basketball or soccer instead so I can at least do something I'm fairly good at. I think starting golf at a young age and starting with good habits goes a long way to increasing your potential. For the pros, they must certainly possess the highest degree of skill possible, but then there are other factors like mental fortitude that are inherent characteristics that are much more difficult to teach.
 
I have to work at golf to be good at it. Was not born with it. I started taking the game seriously a couple years ago. I've played since middle school. I tell my parents now that I wish I had committed to golf the way I committed to other sports. I don't think I would have made it as a pro though.
 
I would say I was born with it to some extent and then worked my tail off to get to where I am at now.

There is video of me hitting ornaments off the Christmas tree when I was 1 with my first set of clubs
 
I started playing at age 10 and played quite a bit up until 17-18. In the 30+ years since that time, I didn't play for about 15 years and then managed about 1-2 rounds per year up to the present. Right now I feel like golf is something that has always been part of who I am and something I am learning for the first time.
 
Six4three5 said:
I still don't believe and will never believe someone is "born a golfer" the guys on tour are born natural athletes and they work extremely hard to get where they are. Look at Tiger arguably the best in the world, literally didn't have a child hood because of how hard he worked at golf. How many guys here would have been willing to do so? To start at 3 years old and never stop? Was Tiger born an athlete? Of course he was but if Tiger chose to take up basketball, baseball, or anything else he put his mind to he'd be a professional at that. The kids that shoot 70 before they're 15 do so because they've been practicing since 3 years old. I worked hard at baseball growing up and idolized Derek Jeter. Being young and stupid I always thought he was born with his talent, that it was a gift from God. Then I read his biography and found out he used to work out every single day from when he was 8 years old until he made it. How many 8 year olds are willing to get out of bed in the morning at 5 am to go take ground balls or batting practicing before school? Knowing they have school practice after class? That's what it takes to a professional athlete. It's natural born athletic ability yes, but these guys work harder than everyone else to be where they're at.
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I agree with you, but you have to admit seeing the home movies of Rory and Phil as small children smacking golf balls is indication that they have natural golf talent. I don't know if I'd go as far as saying because they were born with that determination and work ethic they would be a pro in ANY sport. Every sport requires "god given" characteristics and I doubt Rory, if he worked as hard on his basketball game, would be a Pro in the NBA or Tiger a Pro in the NHL or Phil a world class tennis player.
 
Golds said:
I agree with you, but you have to admit seeing the home movies of Rory and Phil as small children smacking golf balls is indication that they have natural golf talent.
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I believe they're born with athletic ability and hand eye coordination that's much more advanced than a normal 3 year old yes. But I don't think they're born golfers.
 
Six4three5 said:
I believe they're born with athletic ability and hand eye coordination that's much more advanced than a normal 3 year old yes. But I don't think they're born golfers.
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I added to my reply after I submitted it, it elaborates a little more of what I meant.
 
Golds said:
I added to my reply after I submitted it, it elaborates a little more of what I meant.
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Yeah I respectfully disagree. Of course Rory wouldn't make the NBA and hockey is a completely different animal in my opinion because those guys are the best athletes in the world IMO. But I remember reading Tiger went 2 for 3 in a spring training game against John Smotlz as they were friends, and Smotlz admitted not taking it easy and serving up meatballs to Tiger. But if they started practicing a different sport at their age I'm certain they'd excel at it. Do their skill set or ability that they're born with make it easier for them to apply to golf rather than other sports? That's a possibility that I would agree with, but I still stand by my thought that no one is born a golfer. I believe they're born with hand eye coordination that most people can only dream of and they decided at a very young age to apply to golf and work harder at that than anyone on this forum could ever dream of working as hard. Like I said I think us as fans that idolize these athletes take the easy way out by saying they were born with it because we don't really want to know what it takes to reach their level because very few have the work ethic it takes to get there.
 
Six4three5 said:
Yeah I respectfully disagree. Of course Rory wouldn't make the NBA and hockey is a completely different animal in my opinion because those guys are the best athletes in the world IMO. But I remember reading Tiger went 2 for 3 in a spring training game against John Smotlz as they were friends, and Smotlz admitted not taking it easy and serving up meatballs to Tiger. But if they started practicing a different sport at their age I'm certain they'd excel at it. Do their skill set or ability that they're born with make it easier for them to apply to golf rather than other sports? That's a possibility that I would agree with, but I still stand by my thought that no one is born a golfer. I believe they're born with hand eye coordination that most people can only dream of and they decided at a very young age to apply to golf and work harder at that than anyone on this forum could ever dream of working as hard. Like I said I think us as fans that idolize these athletes take the easy way out by saying they were born with it because we don't really want to know what it takes to reach their level because very few have the work ethic it takes to get there.
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I'm picking up what you're throwing down :banana:...this is a very subjective topic and everyone has their own opinion.
 
Golds said:
I'm picking up what you're throwing down :banana:...this is a very subjective topic and everyone has their own opinion.
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Oh I absolutely agree with that dude! But that's what makes this place great. Great conversation and great arguments from both sides!
 
larry bird, a pretty good basketball player said, " I thought no one worked hard at basketball than I did, until I met Magic Johnson".

Hard work and talent is the answer!
 
something just came to mind. while michael phelps was working with hank henney, they went to the range and had 500 balls lined up on short tees, hank said to michael, now i want you to hit these 500 7 irons, michael turned and said "that's a lot of work". hank said, "your michael phelps, you know what hard work is".

proves the point , with some people, long hours and sweat are not work, it is enjoyment, when they are doing something they love. michael phelps loved being in the pool for countless hours, not so much love for 500 7 irons on the range.
 
the good ones always make it look easy. easy enough for people who don't have as much talent or have the work ethic to think that they can do the same things
 
I know that pro's make up only 0.01% of the worlds golfers. We make up the other 99.9%.
 
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