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USGA Course Rating Definitions - Need Refinement?

Canadan said:
In most cases I think they accommodate 250 quite well, but revisit if you carry the ball let's say 200 yards? Would it then?
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I agree. I have a lot to add and a lot of ideas but I don't want to make this about THP events. I think there have been threads about senior tees and such at events so I don't want to beat a dead horse.

As far as the handicap system as a whole I do not know enough about it or depend on it enough to really know if it needs fixed or not.
 
Bullitt5339 said:
Hilton Head. Blues on Par 4s, White on 3s and 5s. Being a short knocker, I would have preferred the other way around, but you can't always get what you want.
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Yes sir. We did it there as we thought it fit the format.
 
I don't mind saying that I am truly confused by things like this. Dan your simple math made it a bit easier to understand but are you saying that a 3 capper at 6600 yds gets 3 strokes and at 7600 only gets 3 strokes total? What about the index conversion charts, do they offer any sort of compromise?
 
Bullitt5339 said:
Hilton Head. Blues on Par 4s, White on 3s and 5s. Being a short knocker, I would have preferred the other way around, but you can't always get what you want.
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JB said:
Lots of events each year...
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I didn't mean moving around with "mixed" tees because in that case, every player still plays their tee shot from the same spot. What I meant was that if people wanted to move up a tee box, they could do it in the same foursome or group. It's not fun when a topic of conversation post-round is that there are multiple par 4's on a course that weren't reachable in 2 shots.
 
golfinFF said:
We've played and no tee at a THP event will be too far for us, but I've played enough with the short guys and trust me it messes with them when they are hitting woods into greens par3's or can't get to a par 4 into without hitting a 3wd into it.

The gang here does a bang up job at setting up courses and tees by mixing them up.
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oh I agree but unless they are seniors they are probably having to do the same back home unless their home course is set up with 4-5 different men's tee boxes to choose from (which is rare around here but that doesn't mean anything I guess) and the particular THP course of the day only has 2-3 men's tees to choose from.
 
Trout Bum said:
I don't mind saying that I am truly confused by things like this. Dan your simple math made it a bit easier to understand but are you saying that a 3 capper at 6600 yds gets 3 strokes and at 7600 only gets 3 strokes total? What about the index conversion charts, do they offer any sort of compromise?
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You get 3 strokes for a course handicap. However, at 6,598 yards you are only expected to shoot a 74.5 (71.5 course rating + 3 strokes for handicap). At 7,516 yards you are expected to shoot a 78.9 (75.9 course rating + 3 strokes for handicap).
 
arydolphin said:
I didn't mean moving around with "mixed" tees because in that case, every player still plays their tee shot from the same spot. What I meant was that if people wanted to move up a tee box, they could do it in the same foursome or group. It's not fun when a topic of conversation post-round is that there are multiple par 4's on a course that weren't reachable in 2 shots.
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Done it at multiple events. Including Bridstone this year.
Lots of THP Events...
 
Mulligan9111 said:
Because women play from different tees than men?
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Huh? This is not accurate. Maybe some women do. There is no such thing as ladies tees, according to a general rule. There are forward tees. I play with ladies that can without a doubt outdrive you, Canadan and most others on here. They dont play the "ladies tees". Thats a horrible look at choosing tees...Never base it on gender.
 
golfinFF said:
Why?

If they hit the ball the same distance shouldn't they play the same tee?
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I'm confused at what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that women should play the same tees as men because they might hit it the same distance?
 
sparksjr said:
oh I agree but unless they are seniors they are probably having to do the same back home unless their home course is set up with 4-5 different men's tee boxes to choose from (which is rare around here but that doesn't mean anything I guess) and the particular THP course of the day only has 2-3 men's tees to choose from.
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I hate the "men's" / "ladies" tees if your short play up don't punish yourself by playing too long of a course regardless of gender
 
JB said:
Huh? This is not accurate. Maybe some women do. There is no such thing as ladies tees, according to a general rule. There are forward tees. I play with ladies that can without a doubt outdrive you, Canadan and most others on here. They dont play the "ladies tees". Thats a horrible look at choosing tees...Never base it on gender.
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Where did I say "ladies tees"?
 
Mulligan9111 said:
I'm confused at what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that women should play the same tees as men because they might hit it the same distance?
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Yes. There is no such thing as "ladies' tees"
 
JB said:
Huh? This is not accurate. Maybe some women do. There is no such thing as ladies tees, according to a general rule. There are forward tees. I play with ladies that can without a doubt outdrive you, Canadan and most others on here. They dont play the "ladies tees". Thats a horrible look at choosing tees...Never base it on gender.
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Every single tournament I have been a part of, watched, etc. has had different yardages for men and women. Did the Women's US Open that followed the Men's US Open play from the same tees/yardages? I've never played in an event or scored an event where the ladies, regardless of their skill level, were made to play the same tees as men.
 
JB said:
Huh? This is not accurate. Maybe some women do. There is no such thing as ladies tees, according to a general rule. There are forward tees. I play with ladies that can without a doubt outdrive you, Canadan and most others on here. They dont play the "ladies tees". Thats a horrible look at choosing tees...Never base it on gender.
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I will hug you in April :)


Mulligan9111 said:
I'm confused at what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that women should play the men's tees because they might hit it the same distance?
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If you hit the ball 200 yards you should play 6000 hit it 250 play 6500 regardless of gender. Simply picking tees because of gender is stupid, play the tees that fit your game is my point.
 
JB said:
Done it at multiple events. Including Bridstone this year.
Lots of THP Events...
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OK, I get the point. Still waiting on an explanation of how the system can be fixed without adding complexity or cost.
 
Mulligan9111 said:
Nothing changes, because it has nothing to do with gender.
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golfinFF said:
So why are their ladies tees for tourneys?
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golfinFF said:
I will hug you in April :)




If you hit the ball 200 yards you should play 6000 hit it 250 play 6500 regardless of gender. Simply picking tees because of gender is stupid, play the tees that fit your game is my point.
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Hrm...who is the person mentioned "ladies" tees here? Certainly wasn't myself.
 
blugold said:
Women should play whatever set of tees that matches their capabilities.
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Again where did I say they shouldn't? I was trying to figure out what golfinFF was saying because he's the one who brought gender into this conversation. I never once said that ladies can't play with men or anything close to that. About the only thing I said that comes close to that is when I mentioned that tournaments I've played in/scored have all had women playing at different yardages than men, regardless of their skill level.
 
blugold said:
Women should play whatever set of tees that matches their capabilities.
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And so should guys!

Distance makes a difference on what tee you should play and one should not be forced to play back past that with out the proper compensation to what they should shoot
 
golfinFF said:
I hate the "men's" / "ladies" tees if your short play up don't punish yourself by playing too long of a course regardless of gender
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I don't disagree at all.

EDIT: ugh I am de-railing like I didn't want to...
 
True, but some tees are not rated for men and some tees are not rated for women, so if you want to play a non-rated tee for handicap purposes, you'll have to fiddle with GHIN when entering the score.

JB said:
...There is no such thing as ladies tees, according to a general rule....
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Mulligan9111 said:
Again where did I say they shouldn't? I was trying to figure out what golfinFF was saying because he's the one who brought gender into this conversation. I never once said that ladies can't play with men or anything close to that. About the only thing I said that comes close to that is when I mentioned that tournaments I've played in/scored have all had women playing at different yardages than men, regardless of their skill level.
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My point is that is bob and Jane are both scratch from 6,000 and both hit the ball the same distance(200yds) and come competition bob is forced to play back at 6600 than he will not shot the +4 that the HC process says he will he will likely shoot +7 or worse because the course is too long. Whil Jane gets to play at 6,000 because she's a lady and basically can shoot 2 over and still beat bob. Because bob is 20+ yards behind Jane all day long and hitting 3wd into par 4's while Jane is hitting her 5i.

But if they both move back they both are getting +4 and should compete cause they are playing the same course and hitting the ball the same distance.
 
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