We've launched the new forums! Read more here

2017 Driver Testing - Slower swing speed

SuperStroke
erock9174

erock9174

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Messages
9,268
Reaction score
3,634
Location
N Canton, OH
Handicap
7.6
Figured I would post this as I’m a slower swinger which is usually tough to find reviews and testing covering mere mortal swing speed players (#NotAnInternetGolfer) lol

Thanks to Windmill Golf Center in Macedonia, OH, had the opportunity to hit my driver against some of the new 2017 models (TM M1, TM M2, Callaway Epic, Cobra F7, Titleist 917) on their Trackman system.

A little about me and my game:
40 yrs old, Game Golf has me at an 84.9 avg score, 11.0 cap, 221 avg drive counting all shots and 232 “typical” drive factoring out mishits.
From what I have seen over the years on various monitors, my driver swing speed is usually high 80’s low 90’s depending on time of season, temperature, etc. So essentially an Avg Joe short knocker with some but not a lot of ability ,lol.

Currently I game a Ping G 10.5* with Matrix Red Tie 65 (Cobra version). Plays at 43.5”. I’m only 5’4” so shorter works for me.
To do the most apples to apples comparison I have the same shaft “Red Tie mentioned above” with various tips at the same length.

The other clubs tested were the:
‘17 M1 10.5*
‘17 M2 12* (Tried the 10.5 last week and launched too low)
Epic 10.5*
F7 9-12*
917 10.5 (Stock Diamana S+) Don’t have a Red tie Titleist tipped.
I spent some time messing with the moveable weights and loft adapters, below are the best combinations I found for me.
Not a fitting per se as I didn’t try shafts outside of my Red Tie but did try and dial in what worked best for me.

All shots considered (sorted by carry)
ClubClubAoAFace/PathSmashLaunchBall SpdSpinCarryTotalOfflineDescentDyn. Loft
M2 12* Lower86.85.60.51.5214.4131.51935.8198.5233.931.628.815.9
Ping G Neutral87.63.0-3.31.5013.0131.12012.8195.7231.644.927.214.4
M1 10.5 Higher87.15.6-1.61.5115.0131.32336.3193.8230.334.328.216.6
Epic 10.5 @ +189.34.6-5.01.4813.4132.01939.7192.0231.354.426.214.8
917 10.588.32.7-5.11.4912.9131.42624.5179.4220.079.723.614.5
F7 Red Tie 11.588.73.9-6.11.4513.6128.62477.6175.8214.274.925.215.2

Counting my best 3 shots (sorted by carry)
ClubClubAoAFace/PathSmashLaunchBall SpdSpinCarryTotalOfflineDescentDyn. Loft
Epic 10.5 @ +189.65.8-5.41.4913.1133.62276.3207.8240.721.329.514.7
Ping G 10.5* neutral87.72.8-1.11.5013.2131.52214.3204.9234.728.230.914.8
M1 10.5 Higher88.35.5-0.21.5015.7132.72079.3204.3237.08.431.817.3
M2 12* Lower87.35.50.01.5214.1132.12019.0201.2235.617.529.415.7
F7 11.589.34.9-5.81.4613.2130.62236.3191.5226.075.827.614.6
917 10.588.32.7-5.11.4912.9131.42624.5179.4220.079.723.614.5


Some high level takeaways
  • I thought for sure my swing these days was in the 90’s. Humbling or perhaps not golfing since Nov, I’m rusty.
  • A good swing is a good swing, a bad swing, well let’s just say no club will fix a bad swing
  • I play a very strong grip and so my miss is a big sweeping smother hook that goes nowhere. So I am looking to try and mitigate that miss.
  • I found that lofting up the Drivers, produced a lower launch (not higher) and even more of a hook. Lofting up just made my miss even worse. This is big find for me, as I try and launch the ball higher I always leave my driver in the + setting. While I don’t show it in the chart above, my driver set to + yielded a lunch of 11.0 and carries of 180 yds. In the neutral loft setting I showed launch of 13* and 205 carry. Less hooded smother hooks. If I had to pick a winner yesterday in terms of watching the ball flight it was the M2 12* lofted down. Matter of fact I want to go back and hit the M2 in 12* and the Epic in 13.5 both lofted down to see what happens with them
  • The clubs (M1 and Epic) that have sliding weights, I hit them best in the full fade settings so I left them there.

Into the numbers…..
Accuracy - The most accurate shots were the shots that produced a Face to Path number closest to 0. The M1 and M2 seemed to produce the best numbers there. The G finished in 3[SUP]rd[/SUP].
Distance: While the M2 topped the charts in avg distance on all shots, the Epic led when factoring in only the top 3 shots. The G was 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] in both charts
Ball Speed – The Epic topped the charts. Not by a huge margin (<1mph) but noteworthy.
Swing Speed – The Epic produced the most swing speed - Perhaps the shape (much smaller profile than the Ping, Cobra and TM’s) contributed to this.

Hopefully somebody finds this info useful. I’m a number geek so this testing was a blast for me. It was also my first time ever on a Trackman.
Any questions or anything I left out just let me know.
 
I just realized that my numbers above look awful on a mobile device.
Much easier to read on a computer.
 
good stuff. On the offline part, I'm never a huge fan of that because essentially it averages misses out but can be seriously skewed a big miss to one side on one swing. So with that in mind, I know you have those numbers there, is there one that you found you hit straighter or more consistently to your eye. Again I know you have numbers listed, but wondering if when you were hitting if that's what your feeling and seeing as well.
 
follow up, the top chart is averages right? So is it saying that the avg smash factor for the M2 was 1.52? Any particular order you hit these in?
 
Thanks for putting all this together for us! I'm right in the same category as you - 41, driver tops out at low 90's. Those are some interesting stats. Seems like the Epic was the overall "winner" based on the numbers above?
 
Thanks for the info. I am a few years older but those numbers are about the same as what I do so I find this a very interesting read.
 
ddec said:
good stuff. On the offline part, I'm never a huge fan of that because essentially it averages misses out but can be seriously skewed a big miss to one side on one swing. So with that in mind, I know you have those numbers there, is there one that you found you hit straighter or more consistently to your eye. Again I know you have numbers listed, but wondering if when you were hitting if that's what your feeling and seeing as well.
Click to expand...

Totally get where you are coming from with offline averages. The numbers I posted for offline above I took absolute numbers. So if a shot missed left 20 yds and right 20 yds the Ave offline is 20. Trackman and Foresight will show 0 offline which I'm not a fan of.

In my case 95% of my shots ended up left of center which is indicative of my shots on the course as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
What really stands out to me is the 917's lack of carry / ball speed compared to similar ball speed from other clubs, 20 yard difference in carry. Is that down to technology or to swings? With the majority of other clubs your AoA is higher than with the 917. Even on your best 3 shots the Ping and the 917 have very similar numbers but 25 yard difference. Which weights were you using in the 917?
 
ddec said:
follow up, the top chart is averages right? So is it saying that the avg smash factor for the M2 was 1.52? Any particular order you hit these in?
Click to expand...

Yes the top chart is averages of all shots. Bottom is top 3 shots with each club.
Avg smash with M2 was 1.52 according to the Trackman data.

I hit them in this order:
Warmed up with orange whip
Them hit about 10 shots. Those were thrown out.
Recorded shots:
F7
M1
M2
G
Epic
917
Then I went back and hit a couple more with each to try and smooth out swing speed tendencies (I.e slower at start, loose in middle and tired at the end).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
2017 Driver Testing - Slower swing speed

russtopher said:
Thanks for putting all this together for us! I'm right in the same category as you - 41, driver tops out at low 90's. Those are some interesting stats. Seems like the Epic was the overall "winner" based on the numbers above?
Click to expand...

I didn't feel the Epic won at all. Not by a long shot. And maybe that is because I didn't post individual shot data. The Epic had the best overall numbers when factoring my best 3 shots. But when factoring all the shots it dropped below the M2, G and M1 as shown above in my all shots avg.

The reasoning is my misses with the Epic were severely left. I had two great shots that were down the middle. The rest were left by an avg of 74 ft.

I saw the Same thing during on course testing with the XR16. Severe case of the lefts.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
erock9174 said:
I didn't feel the Epic won at all. Not by a long shot. And maybe that is because I didn't post individual shot data. The Epic had the best overall numbers when factoring my best 3 shots. But when factoring all the shots it dropped below the M2, G and M1 as shown above in my all shots avg.

The reasoning is my misses with the Epic were severely left. I had two great shots that were down the middle. The rest were left by an avg of 74 yds. That's unplayable on a course.

I saw the Same thing during on course testing with the XR16. Severe case of the lefts.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

If Epic was not the best, what do you think would be the best overall driver for you? What would you purchase?
 
crazygolfnut said:
Thanks for the info. I am a few years older but those numbers are about the same as what I do so I find this a very interesting read.
Click to expand...

Glad I could help out.
Rarely do I find club tests where the person testing is under 100mph with driver. Maybe every blue moon a 95 mph tester but that is about it.

The intent of this thread was To simply take 4 of the same shafts and Throw them into 5 heads and see what happens.

For me my biggest takeaway was to try and figure out how to mitigate my big miss left. I was constantly chasing launch and in doing so was always taking 10.5 heads and cranking the loft up. It appears that more stated loft and lofting the adapter down is the way to go for me.

I'll definitely be trying the M1 12* lofted down and Epic 13.5 at -1* to see how that works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for taking the time to assemble and post this data. Very interesting for us guys in that same SS category.
 
Is your red tie shaft R or S flex? If you stated it already, sorry I must have overlooked it.
 
2017 Driver Testing - Slower swing speed

shaner said:
Is your red tie shaft R or S flex? If you stated it already, sorry I must have overlooked it.
Click to expand...

R flex. But since it's a 3w shaft the oem likely tips it a little. So playing in a driver head which is lighter it will play a little firmer to flex.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
erock9174 said:
Yes the top chart is averages of all shots. Bottom is top 3 shots with each club.
Avg smash with M2 was 1.52 according to the Trackman data.

I hit them in this order:
Warmed up with orange whip
Them hit about 10 shots. Those were thrown out.
Recorded shots:
F7
M1
M2
G
Epic
917
Then I went back and hit a couple more with each to try and smooth out swing speed tendencies (I.e slower at start, loose in middle and tired at the end).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...



erock9174 said:
Totally get where you are coming from with offline averages. The numbers I posted for offline above I took absolute numbers. So if a shot missed left 20 yds and right 20 yds the Ave offline is 20. Trackman and Foresight will show 0 offline which I'm not a fan of.

In my case 95% of my shots ended up left of center which is indicative of my shots on the course as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Awesome, appreciate you answering my questions. There are some things I'm certainly not surprised with based on your numbers and what you've talked about your game before. Like I said earlier it's good stuff.
 
Good Information and surprised at a few numbers. Appreciate you taking time to put this together. I have an appointment with a fitter on Monday. this will broaden my horizon when testing clubs.
 
crazygolfnut said:
If Epic was not the best, what do you think would be the best overall driver for you? What would you purchase?
Click to expand...

If I didn't look at the numbers and simply on ball flight and where the balls ended up on the range the M2 12* lofted down. Then I looked at the numbers for "all shots" And the data confirmed it. Longest and most accurate.

Once I figured out to set my G to neutral instead of +,my flight straightened out and it was very nice as well. But the numbers on the m2 beat it both in distance and accuracy.

My "best 3 shot" numbers on the M1 at higher and weight in toe surprised me. Moreso on the dispersion which was 0.1' R, 12.4' Left and 12.7' left.
If I could replicate that swing every time lol
 
Nice write-up and thanks for posting your results.

With a left miss, like you said getting a higher lofted head and lofting down should help as that generally opens the face a bit is my understanding.
 
Your next step, if you have time. Would be to pick the top 3 drivers and find the best shaft for each head. At my fitting each head worked better with different shafts. I believe the 917 was a Diamona. The Epic was the Rogue Max and the Epic SZ was the Fujikura Pro green. My carry numbers were 10 to 13 yards further once I got the right shaft for my swing in each head. if you have a good fitter he or she should find the correct one for each head to make a fair comparison.
I'm so glad I had such a fitter. It was an absolute blast to work with Brannon.
 
Thanks for posting the numbers from your test. Very interesting stuff. The used rack is close to the practice bays at the PGA Superstore. I have had some of the similar results - though I didn't keep such great records like you. One of the club fitters had me demo an Epic GBB. It was the longest driver I hit it about 6 to 8 yards longer than the other drivers. The second longest was an older Ping G25. The Great Big Bertha and XR16 were long as well. There was an older Cobra Amp driver that went pretty far as well. I love the sound and feel of Titleist drivers but I do not hit them quite as far. The most consistently straightest drivers were the Ping G25 and the Epic. It is always a blast to try different drivers. One of the things that I have learned hitting dozens of used drivers over the past several months is that when drivers are set-up close to my best set-up they are all very close in distance.
 
I just did a titleist fitting for a driver yesterday. My swing was topping out at 93mph, no matter what the fitter did it was 10m shorter then my gbb. Best drive with gbb 208 carry and 232 total, best with 917 195 carry and 220 total (meters).

It was a little awkward at the end :).

Next will be the epic and f7, but I expect the results to be the same, so I will concentrate on finding some wedges to improve my game.
 
to take the hook out when adjusting the loft sleeve up, remember to also adjust your grip

the adjustable hosel will close the face, requiring you to resquare the face, and the only way to do that is to open up your grip, thus increasing the loft of the face (when square)
 
shaner said:
Is your red tie shaft R or S flex? If you stated it already, sorry I must have overlooked it.
Click to expand...
I have a made for Cobra red tie reg. in a 10.5 Cobra F6 head I was fit for. 93/95 swing speed 8hcp. I compared the epic sz 10.5 head with Recoil 440 shaft on course today both are fairway finders with the epic being at least 10 yds ahead every time. My pro told me just to try it, what other shaft is good for this swing speed? Just wondered before I got on a launch monitor. Love threads on more realistic swing speeds! Thanks
 
Thanks for sharing, lots of great data
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top