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2017 Driver Testing - Slower swing speed

SuperStroke
I love the feel and sound of the Titleist drivers but I am always slightly shorter in distance with them. I think you will be surprised by the Epic. Most people, though not all, have seen an increase in distance. Also, the sound and feel is superb.
 
Really nice right up. I like all of the data that you shared.
 
Seems like a lot of work to discover that the M2 on average gives you approximately only 3 extra yds. carry and over all distance over the Ping G you're currently gaming
 
79.7 yards offline with the 917? Stock shaft does not work for you.
75.8 yards offline with the F7? Red Tie in that head is not a happy combination.

Titleist drivers will often test shorter as they play to 45", where most of the industry has gone to longer drivers.
 
Golfever said:
Your next step, if you have time. Would be to pick the top 3 drivers and find the best shaft for each head. At my fitting each head worked better with different shafts. .
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This was my exact plan. The problem is this trial was all done with shafts that play at 43.5 which is the length I prefer. I start to come over the top once I get to a driver length of 44" or higher.

The owner of the fitting center said he has a few driver shafts shorter than standard but not the full gambit if you will. And I just don't feel comfortable gripping down 2" on a 45.5-46" shaft to test clubs. I hit a few practice shots with shafts at full length during my test and it was a mess.

Now one thing I could do is go through the fitting and ask to try various 3w shafts to get the length I need but usually the 3w shaft options are pretty limited. And if I would find a combo I liked I don't think you can order a driver with a 3w shaft. I could be wrong. I'd probably have to buy the driver and likely also purchase the 3w I was fit into which could get costly.




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erock9174 said:
This was my exact plan. The problem is this trial was all done with shafts that play at 43.5 which is the length I prefer. I start to come over the top once I get to a driver length of 44" or higher.

The owner of the fitting center said he has a few driver shafts shorter than standard but not the full gambit if you will. And I just don't feel comfortable gripping down 2" on a 45.5-46" shaft to test clubs. I hit a few practice shots with shafts at full length during my test and it was a mess.

Now one thing I could do is go through the fitting and ask to try various 3w shafts to get the length I need but usually the 3w shaft options are pretty limited. And if I would find a combo I liked I don't think you can order a driver with a 3w shaft. I could be wrong. I'd probably have to buy the driver and likely also purchase the 3w I was fit into which could get costly.




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testing them at that length, were there any weight adjustments done to the head to make up for the drop in SW?
 
aklawitter said:
to take the hook out when adjusting the loft sleeve up, remember to also adjust your grip

the adjustable hosel will close the face, requiring you to resquare the face, and the only way to do that is to open up your grip, thus increasing the loft of the face (when square)
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Agreed
The only thing I don't like about resquaring the face is possibly not putting it into the same orientation each time. Meaning I sole the club and like to let it lay as is. If I'm having to resquare it I might not get it exactly in the same spot each time.

I'll definitely work on it though. Because I do like the added launch.


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Alpha said:
I have a made for Cobra red tie reg. in a 10.5 Cobra F6 head I was fit for. 93/95 swing speed 8hcp. I compared the epic sz 10.5 head with Recoil 440 shaft on course today both are fairway finders with the epic being at least 10 yds ahead every time. My pro told me just to try it, what other shaft is good for this swing speed? Just wondered before I got on a launch monitor. Love threads on more realistic swing speeds! Thanks
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If you try any Ping driver make sure to hit it with the Tour 65. R flex should be fine up to 95 unless you got an ultra aggressive transition. It's made for Ping by UST and based on the Elements Chrome, with a slightly softer tip and a little lighter. For me it was much better than the stock TFC or Alta shaft.


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luvagoodshot said:
Seems like a lot of work to discover that the M2 on average gives you approximately only 3 extra yds. carry and over all distance over the Ping G you're currently gaming
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I'd never consider hitting balls for an hour on a Trackman work. Beats any day at the office.

I've never hit on a Trackman before and had the opportunity. I was always curious if I had a positive angle of attack, What my swing path looked like, My actual swing speed, etc. it was nice to confirm some of these attributes.

I hear ya though, at the end of the day the trusty G held up. Worth a high $ switch probably not but always fun to try.
Oh and full disclosure I have some gift cards burning a hole in my pocket.
 
ddec said:
testing them at that length, were there any weight adjustments done to the head to make up for the drop in SW?
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No. Valid concern though.

The reason I settled on the Red Tie 65 is it's heavier (mine are around 66-68g) than most stock driver shafts and not counterbalanced. So the heads still have a nice heft to them in my hands even though swingweight it's probably in the mid to high C's.

I have the stock head weight for my G which is 7g (head is 201g) and an aftermarket 16g weight which takes the head up to 210g (215g counting the shaft tip). Honestly it started feeling too heavy and I hit it better with the head at 200g which is roughly the same weight as the other oem heads.

I've never fared well with shorty drivers because I'd always just lop of 2" from a light high balance point shaft. The heavier Red Tie seems to work much better with stock non re-weighted heads if that makes sense.

Oh and to counteract the added heft on my G with 16g weight I went up a flex to Stiff.


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erock9174 said:
I'd never consider hitting balls for an hour on a Trackman work. Beats any day at the office.

I've never hit on a Trackman before and had the opportunity. I was always curious if I had a positive angle of attack, What my swing path looked like, My actual swing speed, etc. it was nice to confirm some of these attributes.

I hear ya though, at the end of the day the trusty G held up. Worth a high $ switch probably not but always fun to try.
Oh and full disclosure I have some gift cards burning a hole in my pocket.
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I totally agree with you
 
erock9174 said:
Agreed
The only thing I don't like about resquaring the face is possibly not putting it into the same orientation each time. Meaning I sole the club and like to let it lay as is. If I'm having to resquare it I might not get it exactly in the same spot each time.

I'll definitely work on it though. Because I do like the added launch.




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I think I missed this post when I sent you the offline note yesterday. Since I do this, rotate it a bit, I've pondered time to time getting the line on the grip (assuming one uses a grip with an orientation line, like my Golf Pride CP2) installed to point to the square or other desired sweetspot orientation. It occurs one could employ a small mark from non permanent marker on the shaft or a dot of masking tape as a guide where the grip should be oriented. And adding the reference mark might also be important when taking it in for regripping, since I don't regrip myself.
 
erock9174 said:
The reason I settled on the Red Tie 65 is it's heavier (mine are around 66-68g) than most stock driver shafts and not counterbalanced. So the heads still have a nice heft to them in my hands even though swingweight it's probably in the mid to high C's.

I have the stock head weight for my G which is 7g (head is 201g) and an aftermarket 16g weight which takes the head up to 210g (215g counting the shaft tip). Honestly it started feeling too heavy and I hit it better with the head at 200g which is roughly the same weight as the other oem heads.

I've never fared well with shorty drivers because I'd always just lop of 2" from a light high balance point shaft. The heavier Red Tie seems to work much better with stock non re-weighted heads if that makes sense.

Oh and to counteract the added heft on my G with 16g weight I went up a flex to Stiff.
Click to expand...

You've clearly done a lot of experimenting to get your driver to feel "right" and the counterbalanced Red Tie B-type is doing what it designed to do. I'd like to try one. After chopping up a ton of drivers, I've found it best not to stray too far from the stock weights (SW, Head weight and total club weight). Curious; have you tried 50g shafts at a slightly longer length?

I do have one recommendation, try the smaller M1 440 head. I play the M1 430 at a shorter length and found that the bigger heads just looked ridiculous on a shorter length shaft.
 
OP - Thank you for the great post and all the followup. As someone with similar head speed, AoA, and propensity to draw it I'm really finding a ton of info in your test. I do a lot of my own comparative driver testing and have made similar observations on many of these, although I haven't had the opportunity to test many of the 2017 releases yet, just the 917D3, JPX900, and Fusion.

p3ga said:
79.7 yards offline with the 917? Stock shaft does not work for you.
75.8 yards offline with the F7? Red Tie in that head is not a happy combination.

Titleist drivers will often test shorter as they play to 45", where most of the industry has gone to longer drivers.
Click to expand...

Trackman typically measures offline distances in feet, not yards, so we're looking at 25 or 26 ish yards. Not ideal but definitely something a golfer like the OP is probably used to dealing with. My guess is he typically aims his tee balls toward the right side expecting to draw most back toward center or hit em straight. That's how it works for me too.
 
baddog said:
You've clearly done a lot of experimenting to get your driver to feel "right" and the counterbalanced Red Tie B-type is doing what it designed to do. I'd like to try one. After chopping up a ton of drivers, I've found it best not to stray too far from the stock weights (SW, Head weight and total club weight). Curious; have you tried 50g shafts at a slightly longer length?

I do have one recommendation, try the smaller M1 440 head. I play the M1 430 at a shorter length and found that the bigger heads just looked ridiculous on a shorter length shaft.
Click to expand...

As for playing drivers at longer length. Yes I have played various Ping TFC/Alta and Tour 65 at lengths of 45" for the 2014 and 2015 seasons. Those are all 55-57g shafts.
They were just ok for me. Just as long as my 43.5 build but my misses were more severe with the longer shaft length.

I'll definitely try the smaller 440 cc heads. I assumed those were all "Pro/Tour" level designs and not for my handicap level.
 
Daddio said:
OP - Thank you for the great post and all the followup. As someone with similar head speed, AoA, and propensity to draw it I'm really finding a ton of info in your test. I do a lot of my own comparative driver testing and have made similar observations on many of these, although I haven't had the opportunity to test many of the 2017 releases yet, just the 917D3, JPX900, and Fusion.

Trackman typically measures offline distances in feet, not yards, so we're looking at 25 or 26 ish yards. Not ideal but definitely something a golfer like the OP is probably used to dealing with. My guess is he typically aims his tee balls toward the right side expecting to draw most back toward center or hit em straight. That's how it works for me too.
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Thanks for the kind words, just trying to provide some insight on the mere mortal golfer.
I have also tried the JPX900. On the monitor it was a beast but on the course I found it very hit and miss. On good swings it was as long as anything I've ever hit, but on poor swings I was losing it onto adjacent fairways. By the back 9 I was back to gaming my G as I felt like I had no control over the JPX900.

As for the Fusion, design wise this is one I thought that would really work for me.
High moi, large profile, option for a shorter build. I've hit it now a few times on the range and just didn't get along with it well at all.

As for the Trackman, yes offline is measured in feet. I mentioned yds in my original post which was incorrect.
Thanks for clarifying.
 
I went to 46" with the Hzrdus black shaft and hit it better than any other shaft I have tried. Not for everyone but being 6 ft it seems to fit me well.

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Appreciate this for the rest of us average swingers.

My original Exotics driver has something rattling around in the head and is being fixed (or replaced) by Tour Edge for free - their lifetime warranty is for real btw.

Bottom line is, if TE can't fix it, and replace it with something I don't love, I'm in the driver market for the first time in 10 years.

This helps a lot.
 
Getting fit for a driver today but reading this and just thinking, I really don't know what my driver speed is. I know when I was fit for irons last year, I "think" my SS for my 5 iron was in the mid 80's. Hopefully getting fit for a driver I not only will know my SS but maybe get the right shaft length and flex also. I've always purchased drivers off the rack or on-line so this will be a new experience for me.
 
Great post by a great poster. Thanks for sharing the data with all of us. One question, were those TM drivers the "V2" versions?

I really liked that you could use the different heads in a shaft you like. I've done something similar and it let me isolate the properties of the head.

Your "mere mortal" data is from my experience very similar with that of the average golfer. I play on a very busy course, get paired with a lot of randoms. I'm right at the same swing speed and find that about 1/2 the people are shorter than I am. I think if more people actually knew their swing speeds, then they'd better understand how valuable this post was for them.

Windmill is a fantastic facility. Those in the greater Cleveland area should DEFINITELY check it out. I went there for the first time over the holidays and was blown away. It felt like the first time I went to "Toys R Us" as a kid.
 
ryebread said:
Great post by a great poster. Thanks for sharing the data with all of us. One question, were those TM drivers the "V2" versions?

I really liked that you could use the different heads in a shaft you like. I've done something similar and it let me isolate the properties of the head.

Your "mere mortal" data is from my experience very similar with that of the average golfer. I play on a very busy course, get paired with a lot of randoms. I'm right at the same swing speed and find that about 1/2 the people are shorter than I am. I think if more people actually knew their swing speeds, then they'd better understand how valuable this post was for them.

Windmill is a fantastic facility. Those in the greater Cleveland area should DEFINITELY check it out. I went there for the first time over the holidays and was blown away. It felt like the first time I went to "Toys R Us" as a kid.
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Yes the M1/M2's I hit were the new 2017 versions.

And yes, Windmill is an awesome place. Go there quite often on my lunch break to hit balls. $6 "lunch special" bucket is a nice deal.
 
Why do you think you get a higher launch when lofting down?


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Trevor68 said:
Why do you think you get a higher launch when lofting down?


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Its all about the face angle at impact.

When comparing a 10.5 head lofted up this closes the face (assuming one does not re-grip and re-sole the head so it sits square to the target).
So what seems to be happening for me is with a closed face at address and strong grip, by the time the head of my driver gets to the ball its very closed causing a low smother hook, snap hook, hooded shot, whatever you want to call it. Its very similar to hitting a punch iron shot where you hood the face closed to keep the flight lower.

With a higher lofted head, I can loft the adapter down which opens the face or at least squares it up (once again assuming you don't regrip and re-sole the club to square). As I come through the ball the face is more square exposing the true loft of the head, versus being hooded shut in my example above.

Sorry, not the best at explaining it, but I believe this is what is happening.

According to my data on shots where my face angle was negative (or closed) my launch angle was 11.8*.
On shots where my face angle was square or slightly open my launch was 14.8.

With my driver set to neutral loft my face angle was 0.7* open on avg and had an avg launch angle of 13*. With it set to +1* my face angle was closed -2.3* with a launch of 11.9*
 
This is a great write up and great thread for those of us mere mortals.

I did a driver fitting recently and my swing speed was similar but I have the opposite miss (fade to slice). I have found the best success with taking a 9 head and lofting up to close the face.

Makes sense that someone with a hook miss looking for additional launch would take a higher lofted head and loft down.


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Thanks for taking the time to do this
 
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