Do you play casual rounds like you do competition rounds?

That depends on whether the handicap thus obtained gives you an unfair advantage in competition. If that's is the case, then you are not employing the handicap system as it's supposed to be used, and your handicap does not reflect your true playing style. If you don't do it enough to have a significant impact on your index, then no problem.

If it happens often enough to start effecting their handicap, then I'd argue that it is that players true playing style.

Not if they never play that way in competition. The point is that playing differently in competition in order take advantage of what is essentially a manipulated handicap is sandbagging. This is not an accusation because I don't know you and have no idea what your playing style is. It's just a general statement on sandbagging. What we are discussing is essentially the definition of sandbagging. It doesn't matter whether you deliberately chunk shots to add strokes, outright lie about what you shot, or play a significantly different style of play. Anything you do to artificially raise your index is still handicap manipulation.

I've taken risk shots in past years rather than play safe, but never to the point that it affected my handicap or my tournament results. In fact I'm almost as likely to take the risk in a competition as in a casual round, especially if I actually feel that I need to take the risk to be in the hunt, or if I'm already out of the running and the tournament just becomes another round of golf. I'm not talking about padding my score, but something more like going for a par 5 in 2 where the safe shot is a layup. With my game, a layup can be as hazardous as going for it, so my score is rarely much different for taking the risk.

Keep in mind that if someone is regularly playing competition (tournament) rounds, GHIN will take those tournament scores into effect and the tournament committee will adjust the handicap accordingly, if those tournament scores are 3 or more shots better than their index.
http://www.usga.org/rule-books/handicap-system-manual/rule-10/

10-3. Reduction of Handicap Index Based on Exceptional Tournament Scores
Using the definition of a tournament score (see tournament score and Decisions 10-3/1 through 10-3/6), the Committee (preferably the Handicap Committee in consultation with the Committee in charge of the competition) must determine in advance whether a score is to be designated as a tournament score that is to be identified by the letter "T" when posted (e.g., 82T). These scores are often referred to as "T-Scores" as in Section 10-3c.
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a. Procedure
The following procedure must be used as an alternate calculation of a Handicap Index for players with two or more eligible tournament scores. A player's Handicap Index may be reduced under this procedure when a player has a minimum of two eligible tournament score differentials that are at least 3.0 better than the player's Handicap Index calculated under Section 10-2.
The Handicap Committee or handicap computation service must apply the following steps to determine if there is a reduction in Handicap Index calculated under Section 10-2.
 
I play all of my rounds the same. I am always trying to play my best and stay focused one shot at a time.
 
Keep in mind that if someone is regularly playing competition (tournament) rounds, GHIN will take those tournament scores into effect and the tournament committee will adjust the handicap accordingly, if those tournament scores are 3 or more shots better than their index.
http://www.usga.org/rule-books/handicap-system-manual/rule-10/

10-3. Reduction of Handicap Index Based on Exceptional Tournament Scores
Using the definition of a tournament score (see tournament score and Decisions 10-3/1 through 10-3/6), the Committee (preferably the Handicap Committee in consultation with the Committee in charge of the competition) must determine in advance whether a score is to be designated as a tournament score that is to be identified by the letter "T" when posted (e.g., 82T). These scores are often referred to as "T-Scores" as in Section 10-3c.
bc0e0f62-e16f-4102-990a-2696b8190dae.gif
a. Procedure
The following procedure must be used as an alternate calculation of a Handicap Index for players with two or more eligible tournament scores. A player's Handicap Index may be reduced under this procedure when a player has a minimum of two eligible tournament score differentials that are at least 3.0 better than the player's Handicap Index calculated under Section 10-2.
The Handicap Committee or handicap computation service must apply the following steps to determine if there is a reduction in Handicap Index calculated under Section 10-2.

McRock - have you had the tournament committee inquire? I want to make sure you know that I don't mean any offense, I'm definitely not accusing you of sandbagging, and I completely believe you when you say your intent is not to inflate your handicap. But I think this is an interesting issue. On one hand, I don't see that taking extra risks during a round should impact a person's ability to post their score, assuming their mindset is like yours and they're not doing it to intentionally inflate scores. I think a lot of people are inclined to go for some shots they might otherwise avoid if nothing is on the line and I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I completely agree that it can be fun. On the other, if the practical impact of that is an inflated handicap -- even though not intentional -- it seems like it could raise some red flags for competition. I would think that a lot of fellow competitors would take issue if you consistently shoot 8-10 shots better than your index in competition. And if you can consistently do that, it might be fair to say that your index doesn't accurately reflect your game.
 
Always. I always want to play my best no matter what, and then push myself to do better. Probably one of the reasons why I am my worst/harshest critic.
 
I usually play to do my best, I have a number in my head that I want to shoot. However, with Legacy in my future, I play with a more competitive mind set.
 
So I'm curious, say this golfer makes the risky shots during the round and shoots a lower score than what he/she would if they played the way they did during competition. Would you want that golfer to record that lower score?

Of course I would, if he is taking a calculated risk to shoot the best score possible. That isn't really the question. What is in dispute is whether he is deliberately taking risk shots without any thought of the consequences because he figures that if it doesn't work it just raises his handicap, so it's win/win for him.

Also, I'm not saying any of this because of myself. My game doesn't change a whole lot from competitive mode versus casual, but I still record all my scores. I'm just saying that no golfer plays the exact same way every time they play golf. Also, I don't think McRock is talking about intentionally inflating scores for the sake of handicap. I take it as he's wondering if people take more risks during casual versus competitive rounds. If you take more risks and someone calls you a sandbagger, that's just ridiculous in my opinion. It's easier to take risks when there is nothing on the line, doesn't mean the round is invalid for handicap purposes.

If a player takes an honest risk after weighing the odds, but he lets the fact that it's a casual round tip the scales on a 50/50 shot, I don't really have an issue with it. If he consistently takes 25/75 risks (or worse) that he would never even consider if he was concerned with score, then I call foul. That should be counted as nothing more than a practice round, in my opinion, whether he shoots higher or lower than his norm. He is not playing a game that's even similar to what he would do in a competition. If he continues to play and take such risks, maybe he one day gets good enough that those shots are not as risky as they once were. Now we are talking something different if he has put his game at a level that he will even consider trying some of those shots in competitions.

My only concern is when the player plays so differently in competition than he does in casual play that his inflated handicap, and that alone, puts his fellow competitors at a disadvantage. That is the very essence of sandbagging. If a player honestly doesn't realize what he is doing, then he needs some counseling before he gets on the wrong side of the handicap committee. A well managed club will spot trends like this quickly and will take steps to fix it.
 
McRock - have you had the tournament committee inquire? I want to make sure you know that I don't mean any offense, I'm definitely not accusing you of sandbagging, and I completely believe you when you say your intent is not to inflate your handicap. But I think this is an interesting issue. On one hand, I don't see that taking extra risks during a round should impact a person's ability to post their score, assuming their mindset is like yours and they're not doing it to intentionally inflate scores. I think a lot of people are inclined to go for some shots they might otherwise avoid if nothing is on the line and I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I completely agree that it can be fun. On the other, if the practical impact of that is an inflated handicap -- even though not intentional -- it seems like it could raise some red flags for competition. I would think that a lot of fellow competitors would take issue if you consistently shoot 8-10 shots better than your index in competition. And if you can consistently do that, it might be fair to say that your index doesn't accurately reflect your game.

Ummmm, no offense taken, because none of it actually applies to me. The only competitions I play in are scrambles, ryder cup style events, and my city tournament. None of those are handicapped nor do they require a handicap, so there really would be no reason to discuss with the non-existent tournament committee the difference in my scores between casual rounds and my competitive rounds.

I literally have never had an 'official' handicap my entire life (although I have to get one this year). The handicap in my profile is based on rounds I played when I traveled around last year, and is based on me entering rounds into the internet to come up with an estimate. My course isn't USGA rated, so the only way for me to even get a handicap is to count scores on courses I play while traveling.

FWIW, when I travel and play on new courses or courses that simply are not my home course, my shot selection is different than what I do on my home course.

~Rock
 
One could argue, though, that regardless of what you shoot in casual vs competition rounds, if you are trying shots and you are trying your best at that shot, you are not sandbagging.

Now, in tournament play, that will not get "caught" in your first 1-2 tournament rounds. But, after 2 tournament scores, those 2 "exceptional" scores will lower your index. In the USGA example, a player with a 17 handicap gets lowered to a 12, when his 2 "exceptional" scores are considered. That is a pretty signiificant reduction.

Example: A player with a Handicap Index of 17.3 has three eligible tournament scores, an 82T, 83T and 85T. Two of these eligible tournament scores, an 82T and 83T, produce the lowest tournament score differentials. They were made on a course with a USGA Course Rating of 70.6 and a Slope Rating of 130.
Step 1: Calculate tournament score differentials by subtracting the USGA Course Rating from each eligible tournament score; multiply the result by 113, and divide by the Slope Rating for each course played. Select the two lowest eligible tournament score differentials.
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Step 2: Subtract the second lowest differential from the Handicap Index under Section 10-2. Continue with the next step if the result is 3.0 or greater.
08d598b6-8980-441d-8d0f-e06fbfc656df.gif

Step 3: Average the two lowest tournament score differentials.
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2 best T-score Differential average of differentials 2 lowest T-scores

Step 4: Subtract that average from the player's Handicap Index.
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Step 5: Using the number (rounded to the nearest tenths place (7.0) from step 4 and the total number of tournament scores in the player's record (3), use the Handicap Reduction Table to determine the amount the player's Handicap Index is to be reduced.

Step 6: Subtract the table value from the player's Handicap Index. The result of that subtraction will be the player's reduced Handicap Index, provided that it is at least 1.0 less than the Handicap Index based on the formula in Section 10-2. The reduced Handicap Index is to be identified with the letter R when displayed in handicap reports or on the computer screen, e.g., 12.3R.
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Example:
Value from Handicap Reduction Table 5.0
Handicap Index -- Table Value: 17.3 - 5.0 = 12.3
Reduced
Handicap Index: 12.3R
 
Absolutely.

441 and I played very conservative at the right time during the MC and we did it for a reason.

Know your limitations and try to make the lowest score - if you want to win or have a shot at winning.
1. QFT.
2. Sandbagging talk in this thread makes me lol
3. some peeps in here are really intense...it's a game. ..chasing a little white ball. I'd rather play solo then have a casual round be a life or death situation.
 
Let's be fair if someone truly wanted to sandbag, they can just add higher scores to there handicap plain and simple. Why spend the money to play if your just trying to shoot high, simply post high number. Handicap only comes into play when you actually apply it. Other than that a handicap is nothing more than a number. Golf is all based an honor system and you regulate yourself out there. If someone takes a calculated risk during a round then that is how they play. Call me crazy but that was called being aggressive. I would never accuse someone of sandbagging during a round, let alone because they want to get aggressive.
 
I play every round of golf competitively. Because im in competition with myself for my best score.

However im way more nervous in actual competition. My cousin and I play a round of golf with Fantasy Football draft picks on the line every August and its always heated. My friends look forward to playing with us and watching it pan out.

So yes I try to always be competitive in a round, but nothing compares to the real feeling of competition!
 
Ummmm, no offense taken, because none of it actually applies to me. The only competitions I play in are scrambles, ryder cup style events, and my city tournament. None of those are handicapped nor do they require a handicap, so there really would be no reason to discuss with the non-existent tournament committee the difference in my scores between casual rounds and my competitive rounds.

I literally have never had an 'official' handicap my entire life (although I have to get one this year). The handicap in my profile is based on rounds I played when I traveled around last year, and is based on me entering rounds into the internet to come up with an estimate. My course isn't USGA rated, so the only way for me to even get a handicap is to count scores on courses I play while traveling.

FWIW, when I travel and play on new courses or courses that simply are not my home course, my shot selection is different than what I do on my home course.

~Rock

Gotcha and thanks for the response. I actually do exactly what you described occasionally - hit risky shots that are fun to try but that tend to hurt score overall more than help it. I definitely play for score more often than not, but if I'm having a bad round or just feel like not worrying about score, I'll definitely give try some shots that I would never think of trying to pull off in a tournament. I'd just never really thought about how that might affect handicap, etc. so I thought it was an interesting issue.
 
I usually play competition rounds a lot better because I'm focused a lot more and there is something on the line. When playing casual I usually lose focus quickly especially after a blow up hole. I've started putting down 5 bucks with my friend for 9 holes and it's enough to keep me focused but little enough to not burn a hole in my pocket, since we play almost everyday.


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I absolutely take every round seriously, but I have fun too. I don't throw my irons into the pond.

If I'm playing a practice round on a course I'm not familiar with then I'll try some crazy shots I wouldn't do otherwise.
 
1. QFT.
2. Sandbagging talk in this thread makes me lol
3. some peeps in here are really intense...it's a game. ..chasing a little white ball. I'd rather play solo then have a casual round be a life or death situation.

It's all about those PB's ninja.

And it's not like we have to relate this to taking some crazy flop shot over a bunker to a short sided pin. Could be as simple as laying up on a par 4 lol.
 
My main difference is that I might try a more difficult shot during a casual round due to less severe consequences.
 
nope. Casual rounds are way more fun.
 
I'm done with competitive rounds except for maybe an occasional scramble fund raising type tournament. I leave the more serious tournaments up to my wife KellyBo who plays in several each year. My only competition these days is when the old dudes I play with, get a rabbit going in our foursome. Pretty fun and often competitive somewhat but nothing like a golf tournament etc. I enjoy my casual golf these days :thumb:
 
Does not matter. I look to get out of trouble in one stroke. Whatever gives me the greatest margin of error and puts me where I can make a good stroke on the next stroke is what I want. Dave Pelz wrote a book called Damage Control and it has a lot of ways to hit shots I never though about or worked on until I read it.
 
Casual, relax , with big smile at tee box. I enjoy the exercise and golf course views. No different attitudes even at tournament level.
 
I haven't really played competitive golf since my mid 20's but I plan on starting in July or August. In the past I always had to tell myself to relax during competitive rounds and stay in my routine. I'm sure it will take me a few tournaments before I'm able to control my emotions and treat a competitive round just like the casual ones I play.
 
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