What's the truth about lie angle?

jjfcpa

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I've had two fittings. One fitting adjusted the clubs I order to make them more flat (Ping Gmax purple dot 1.5* flat) and the other was for Callaway Steelhead XR and all they did was make the clubs 1/2 inch short.

I've read some interesting articles saying that the static testing for lie angle is probably irrelevant because what really matters is what happens when you swing the club and how it impacts the ground. In both cases, the fitters used a lie board to check the lie angle.

Since these fittings, I've gotten some swing lessons and my swing (which used to be over the top with a slice) is now much more conventional, but I have noticed that I'm starting to hit left a little too often. Should this be attributed to a miss hit or poor swing mechanics or could this be that the Steelhead's need a lie adjustment?
 
As long as the lie board mark is in the center of the sole, then it's not the lie. It's a swing flaw.
 
Shortening a club will make it "play" flatter - so both of the fittings have the same end result. Though I don't now what the difference between stock lie angles on the GMax and Steelhead are.
 
Shortening a club will make it "play" flatter - so both of the fittings have the same end result. Though I don't now what the difference between stock lie angles on the GMax and Steelhead are.
I've always been fitted into Ping irons as either red or purple dot (depending upon when that change was made), but when fitted into my Callaway irons, we went 1/2" short instead. Kind of funny that my fitting went just as the OP's seems to have.

My guess is that the lessons taken, and resulting swing change is the cause of the left miss, and not that the clubs are too upright.
 
If you're going to make the clubs flatter one way or another I would bend the lie and not shorten. Shortening clubs can lead to lost distance. Less length=less leverage.


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If you're going to make the clubs flatter one way or another I would bend the lie and not shorten. Shortening clubs can lead to lost distance. Less length=less leverage.


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Unless you're squaring up the club better at the shorter length. I'm guessing the fitter was seeing more centered contact at the shorter length.
 
I honestly can look at a wedge and discern lie angle difference of 1 degree. Stock, they are all too upright for me. The easiest way to identify if an iron lie is correct is a lie board. Adjust them and then hit a bunch of short irons and wedges on the range. You will see a push or pull if the lie angle is off. The higher the loft on the club, the more having the correct lie angle matters which is why we don't need to worry about lie angles with drivers.

Back when I started playing, fitting was not nearly as common as today so I played stock irons that were too upright until I got to college. I always thought wedges and short irons just had a naturally pull tendency and had learned to compensate by aiming right on every shot. It was an adjustment once I got them flattened 2 degrees!
 
My Cleveland RTX2 wedges have been in use for a little over 2 years now. I had them flattened from stock 64° to 63° when I purchased them because that is what I have played my wedges at for the past 10 or so years. I looked at the sole a while back and can distinctly see the wear from ground contact being a little on the heel side of center. Going to order new wedges soon and will go another degree flatter at 62° to center it up a little. Do not have the luxury of going to a fitter where I live so it is a lot of trial and error on my own.
 
interesting thread. I just found a set of old Tommy Armour 845s irons for $50. I had a set of these in the 90's up until 2008.During this time I played my best golf. I was very accurate with those irons. I bought them for the price and sentimental value. I now play an off the rack set of Nike Vapor Fly Irons with Graphite Shafts that fit me well. When I went out to hit the 845s I noticed how well the club sat behind the ball. I was hitting an 8 iron and the lie is 62 degrees versus 63 for the Nike. While I lost a little distance due to weaker lofts I found that I was still really accurate with them. The 1 degree doesn't make a huge difference but I could tell by just looking at it.
 
All else being equal, a club too upright will lead to left misses, and a club too flat will lead to right misses.

The key is "all else being equal."

I prefer to change lie rather than shaft length - easier to change back if things are not correct. And, as mentioned above, distances change w different lengths, all else being equal.
 
Good fitters will be able,to look at a swing, where on the face contact is being made and ball flight to determine if length issue or if lie is.
 
How are your divots? Toe heavy, heel heavy? If they are of consistent depth across the divot, it's not a lie angle issue.

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Lie angle can and will make a huge difference. A lie board is pretty good at telling lies. On course play with the Sharpie method is much more telling. I'll let you do the search for it, as there are plenty of posts. I was pulling everything left and after adjusting my irons from 1.5 to .5 degrees flatter, just like magic, everything is going straight.
 
I had another lesson yesterday and one of the remaining things to address on my swing was to get my arms a little straighter on impact. I guess my bent arms are the result of playing this way for the last year and a half (since I started playing golf) and not correcting. During my lesson, I noticed that my shots were straighter the more my arms got extended. I'm sure this has more to do with it than the lie of the clubs so I think I'll work on trying to keep my arms straighter on impact and not worry about the lie angle right now. After I get that under control, if my shots still tend to go left, I'll have them see what the lie board shows.

Four or five lessons in and I have learned so much about the proper swing and about how many things I was doing wrong. I can understand how lessons can have a much greater impact on your game than a new club.
 
interesting thread. I just found a set of old Tommy Armour 845s irons for $50. I had a set of these in the 90's up until 2008.During this time I played my best golf. I was very accurate with those irons. I bought them for the price and sentimental value. I now play an off the rack set of Nike Vapor Fly Irons with Graphite Shafts that fit me well. When I went out to hit the 845s I noticed how well the club sat behind the ball. I was hitting an 8 iron and the lie is 62 degrees versus 63 for the Nike. While I lost a little distance due to weaker lofts I found that I was still really accurate with them. The 1 degree doesn't make a huge difference but I could tell by just looking at it.

845's were some of the best irons made. I remember so many guys playing them...really good players too.
 
Question....does moving closer or farther away from the ball, or swinging with an open stance impact the lie angle test? I recall a buddy getting fitted while standing too far away from the ball with a slightly open stance. Then after a series of lessons he moved closer and got squared up and he said it changed the lie angle.
 
Question....does moving closer or farther away from the ball, or swinging with an open stance impact the lie angle test? I recall a buddy getting fitted while standing too far away from the ball with a slightly open stance. Then after a series of lessons he moved closer and got squared up and he said it changed the lie angle.

I’m not an expert, nor did I stay in a holiday inn last night, but I’m pretty sure standing too far away does have an impact on lie angle.
 
"What's the truth about lie angle?" Are you saying some are lying about lie?
 
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