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The Official Rant of the Day

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In Germany (and probably most of Europe), the standards for being admitted to college are a lot higher (i.e. less students getting in), but the costs to the student are much lower. Therefore, there are less people getting a degree "just to get a degree".

And as a result, a larger proportion of people learn trades. Which to my mind, is a good thing, because trades are good.

I very much like this idea. I admit that it probably would not catch on in the US, but I like the idea. And there's no horrifically busted student loan system that benefits no one.
 
deuce said:
I asked a question, made no "inferences". If you don't want to answer, fine.
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If the more kids getting into colleges helps a school district get more fedetal funding, a school district would be less inclined to make school challenging. Essentially, just pass kids along.
 
That is something I wish was pushed to me when I was in high school is trade schools or whatever you would like to call them. I work for my family at the pizza place we own and while that job pays my mortgage and my car payment and the rest of my bills I know that there isn't much more money I can make from doing this. And while the wife is in school and working part time I am bringing in 80% of the income and do not have time or the money to stop what I am doing and learn a new trade and get paid less then what I am right now because I simply can't afford it
 
deuce said:
Yeah, but the way the Regents worked it was basically a natural flow out of the coursework we were already expected to have a grasp of given the class/year you were in. There was never, to my knowledge, any prepping FOR and TOWARDS the Regents exams. If you could pass the class, you should be able to pass the Regents with a 65 or better.
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We never studies specifically for them either and as long as you passed the same exam everyone else took with the requisite score needed for regents every year then you got the degree. Crazy part was it meant nothing outside of NY.


JRod said:
I don't know where this stigma comes from.

I'm just a dirtbag mechanic and I make a pretty decent living.

Much better than most people I know with only 4 yeAr degrees .

I honestly think trade schools are more important than ever right now .

I'll have to find an amazing article mike rowe wrote about the situation .


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Many of the vo-tech high schools back home are gone now. So instead of learning some basic skills then taking them to either a job in h.s and learn more of that trade and do apprentice ships they have to find a trade school. Iirc mike Rowe mentioned there are some crazy amount of jobs (300k or more) that are open and don't require a degree but require a skill. He also commented that the problem with college is we are teaching kids for jobs that don't exist any more and charging the, an outrageous amount of money to do it.

blugold said:
Costs of college is what's busted as hell. College degrees are not meant only for those that can afford them.
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College costs are high because everyone can get a loan so the colleges increase their fees and will continue to do it as long as anyone can get the low interest loan.
 
To Jman and all the other teachers out there...I feel for you guys going through all the political BS that is involved in education. One would believe that politics could stay out of the educational system in our country and just let teachers teach.
 
blugold said:
I understand that. That's why making them less accessible is a good idea.

As I think about this, Jman (or other educators) is percentage of college enrollment used to rank high school systems?
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NewsWeeks best high schools and other rating systems certainly do use college enrollment as a basis for judgement. Great schools bases mostly on test scores which is crap also. Thats why it is so hard to take some of these ratings seriously but everyone uses them.
 
In line with all the testing debate. When I was in 8th grade (1996-97ish) Ohio rolled out their Proficiency (sp?) testing and we would have to pass it to graduate. So everything we were taught started out with this phrase "This will be on the Proficiency test so you need to know it." Then it got to the point that all we were learning was what would be on the test. Thankfully, we had from the end of our 8th grade year until our Senior year to pass all 5 parts of the test. I passed all but the math on the first try. So my Freshman year I had to retake the math portion and passed it. So the rest of high school I didn't have to do the stupid things again. I think a graduating year or two after mine had to pass a 12th grade Proficiency test also.

Along the lines of vocational/tech schools, I went this route my Jr/Sr years. I was in a computer support course. Basic IT/IS stuff working a help desk. I got an internship my Sr year with the local United Way. After I graduated, I spent 2 more months there before I was "laid off". Since then I've been in accounting. I wish I would have chosen a different course to pursue at the vocational school. I'm interested in a construction related job where I work, and the construction offering at the vocational school would have been a huge help.
 
emart2173 said:
We never studies specifically for them either and as long as you passed the same exam everyone else took with the requisite score needed for regents every year then you got the degree. Crazy part was it meant nothing outside of NY.




Many of the vo-tech high schools back home are gone now. So instead of learning some basic skills then taking them to either a job in h.s and learn more of that trade and do apprentice ships they have to find a trade school. Iirc mike Rowe mentioned there are some crazy amount of jobs (300k or more) that are open and don't require a degree but require a skill. He also commented that the problem with college is we are teaching kids for jobs that don't exist any more and charging the, an outrageous amount of money to do it.



College costs are high because everyone can get a loan so the colleges increase their fees and will continue to do it as long as anyone can get the low interest loan.
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To me, the other elephant in the room is the thought that "Everyone should go to college." No, some shouldn't. Lets force some kid to go to school, on student loans, realize after a year or two that this isn't for him, and then there he is with no degree and student loans over his head. Brilliant.
 
BIGBALL said:
To me, the other elephant in the room is the thought that "Everyone should go to college." No, some shouldn't. Lets force some kid to go to school, on student loans, realize after a year or two that this isn't for him, and then there he is with no degree and student loans over his head. Brilliant.
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Totally agree. It's the notion that a college degree will get you a good job and all the other pleasant stuff we heard back in the day. It's just not true anymore. So many people coming out of school can't find a job or one in their chosen field. Then end up working minimal wage jobs and can't afford to pay off student loans.
 
In my Industry (Piledriving) there is a severe shortage of people from the Welders to basic bodies needed to keep the jobs going. Now the basic bodies make upwards of $18-$22.00 to start, when they are fully trained trained up to $30.00 per hour is possible in some markets. The demand is so high small groups of trained guys (a 5 man crew) are going job to job and naming their price and working all the overtime they want.

College is great, but basic trades and skills are a dying art. More Vocational skills is what this Country needs not more Liberal arts grads that can't hit their A$$ with a hammer and then complain about the wages for flipping burgers.
 
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jim54 said:
In my Industry (Piledriving) there is a severe shortage of people from the Welders to basic bodies needed to keep the jobs going. Now the basic bodies make upwards of $18-$22.00 to start, when they are fully trained trained up to $30.00 per hour is possible in some markets. The demand is so high small groups of trained guys (a 5 man crew) are going job to job and naming their price and working all the overtime they want.

College is great, but basic trades and skills are a dying art. More Vocational skills is what this Country needs not more Liberal arts grads that can't hit their A$$ with a hammer and then complain about the wages for flipping burgers.
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For 30 an hour I would do it, but I do not live in FL any longer.
 
jim54 said:
In my Industry (Piledriving) there is a severe shortage of people from the Welders to basic bodies needed to keep the jobs going. Now the basic bodies make upwards of $18-$22.00 to start, when they are fully trained trained up to $30.00 per hour is possible in some markets. The demand is so high small groups of trained guys (a 5 man crew) are going job to job and naming their price and working all the overtime they want.

College is great, but basic trades and skills are a dying art. More Vocational skills is what this Country needs not more Liberal arts grads that can't hit their A$$ with a hammer and then complain about the wages for flipping burgers.
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That is what I am talking about. I wish something like that was pushed to me coming out of high school. Was never even told about jobs like that, other than bad things like those guys do that because they didn't go to college like it was a bad thing. Just forced to go to college(community) and it just didn't work out for me.
 
I was a vo-tech grad back in the late 70's and it helped shape my journey to where I am now. I make a decent living and can fix anything or at least take it apart and try to fix it. The demand for skilled labor will never go away and if the economy stays strong it is a career path young people could make a great living at. Yes you will get dirty and no there is no AC to work in, but for those that are not able to afford College or just aren't that type of person it is out there for the taking.
 
Well I thought I had solved my PC issues last weekend (completely random freezes that could only be sorted by rebooting the machine) but when sorting my fantasy golf team last night, it decided to start doing it again

Looking like I will need a new motherboard, CPU and memory as the current machine is previous generation processor so I will have to replace all 3 of them together :angry:
 
I had a busy golf weekend planned with 5 days off until I woke up this morning with some sciatic pain.

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jim54 said:
In my Industry (Piledriving) there is a severe shortage of people from the Welders to basic bodies needed to keep the jobs going. Now the basic bodies make upwards of $18-$22.00 to start, when they are fully trained trained up to $30.00 per hour is possible in some markets. The demand is so high small groups of trained guys (a 5 man crew) are going job to job and naming their price and working all the overtime they want.

College is great, but basic trades and skills are a dying art. More Vocational skills is what this Country needs not more Liberal arts grads that can't hit their A$$ with a hammer and then complain about the wages for flipping burgers.
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I hear ya Jim. I sell welding gases & supplies, and a large majority of my customers can't find qualified guys ( heck, some even unqualified ) to work. And I know these guys pay well... Really fries me when I hear a guy say "There is no work out there. " Yea, there is - you just think it's beneath you to do it. And in this welfare society that has been created, you can get away with it.
 
pumbaa said:
When someone is leaving and they keep telling everyone about it, and how much this place sucks and how great the new place will be. Then not caring about work. We get it you got a new gig, show some respect and work until you leave or just leave. I have a feeling dude wont make it in the new gig due to his atitude but thats not my problem. Stop being an asshole.
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Every place I've worked just let people go once they give their two weeks notice. Two weeks severance pay and escort you out of the building. People, especially disgruntled ones like it sounds like you are describing can eff things up, so companies just send them on their way.
 
Smallville said:
Every place I've worked just let people go once they give their two weeks notice. Two weeks severance pay and escort you out of the building. People, especially disgruntled ones like it sounds like you are describing can eff things up, so companies just send them on their way.
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My old employer usually did the same thing. Unfortunately I was the one they kept on for the two weeks. It sucks not being a piece of crap, they knew I wouldn't be "that" guy.
 
My rant for the day is my kids sports coaches. I understand people are volunteers and nobody is getting paid but teach the kids something!! Don't expect them to know how to play the game at age 7 or 10, they need to learn the basics. I don't understand why if you don't know anything about the game you would volunteer to coach kids? Just makes no sense to me.
 
JB said:
Then get a job and pay for it or earn a scholarship
The idea that someone else should have to, is exactly what is wrong with this entire world.

The entitlement that is out there is crazy talk. If little Timmy cannot afford school, he can work harder to get scholarship, or he can find employment to cover the costs.
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Or go to a cheaper school. One doesn't have to go to a Division I school (or basically a high dollar school) to get a good education. I admittedly went in a different time (1980) but went to one of the top 3 schools in the country for my major and it was a NAIA Division II school at the time. My loans were paid off in two years. If I had gone to KU it would have cost me five or six times more. Which is why I didn't go. I knew I couldn't afford it and I know for sure my parents couldn't.
 
The right turn only lane is your own private fast lane? You give me the stink eye when I don't make way to let you cut in and hold up every body behind me? Really?!?
 
skeets said:
The right turn only lane is your own private fast lane? You give me the stink eye when I don't make way to let you cut in and hold up every body behind me? Really?!?
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Or those who use the shoulder on the highway to get around the traffic sitting there.
 
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