Do we still need QUIET!!!?

Akh223 said:

Is it me, or does anyone else feel that professional level golf needs to move in to the modern era and drop the whole silence bit when people are playing?

I took the family to the Web.com BMW Pro-Am today. I knew that I wouldn't be able to watch the golf action with two small children, and I was ok with that. I mostly wanted to go to just show the wife and kids what a nice course it was, and to let them play in the kids area and get them out for a new adventure they had never experienced. I also needed to say "Hi" to the sponsor that gives me the tickets every year. Everything went fine and the kids were very well behaved and stayed quiet when I told them to so we could watch one group tee off.

What really surprises me every year is how poorly the tour treats the spectators that come out to watch the events. The guys that stand on the tee boxes and around the greens can be overbearing in yelling "quiet" at every person that they can. Sometimes I feel as if they take joy in telling people to be quiet and most of them do so in the most demeaning and rude manner possible. I know enough to stay quiet and remain still while players are playing their shots, but it always gets me thinking about why golfers need dead silence to play the game and its effect on the spectators and sport. I cant think of another mainstream sporting event where the spectators are yelled at and told to be dead silent so the game can be played. Can you imagine a football, baseball, or basketball game that required everyone to be quiet? All the players in those sports can play with fan noise, cheers, boos, the wave, noisemakers, etc.....but pro golfers cant figure out how to hit a ball while people are talking or making noise? I know golfers can play with noise and movement; look at driving ranges, and the explosion of Top Golf as a business.

I personally dont mind if people are talking, cutting up, moving, etc when I am playing. I will say that I am a newer player, and that I am terrible, so it may not matter as much to me as someone who is trying to break par every round.

Do you think golf should stay the quiet noise free event it is, or should it evolve in to a noisy fan friendly environment?

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I just want to know if you got to get anywhere close to Debbe Dunning...seeing her on TV for one shot kept me watching that tournament all weekend...hahaha

I'm a big fan of quiet. Golf is not the only sport who utilizes quiet during play and I think it's entirely appropriate.

Why people can't seem to buy into that concept blow my mind on a daily basis, but that's for another thread I suppose.

cbaker2882 said:

Tennis is completely quiet when they play as well. It's just a tradition for it, and yes I think golf needs to remain quiet. Worst thing I ever witnessed was when following Jonathan Byrd these two 10-12 year old kids would yell "Go Tiger!" in his backswing every time. I've never seen a caddy flip out on anyone as much as his did, and it was completely warranted. If they were grown men the caddy might have thrown down.

I've personally never experienced this rudeness by the volunteers though that help run the event that you mentioned. Anytime they have needed to quite someone down they have done so nicely.

As for noise itself, I don't think it's too much to ask to be respectful to the players. Every putt they take could mean the difference of potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars. Could you imagine someone coming into a meeting when you're trying to close a multi million dollar deal and yell mashed potatoes right as your giving your closing speech? Don't think that would throw you off your game a little?

That said, it definitely seems to bug certain players much more than others.

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Love the tennis connection.

I think it's appropriate and respectful go remain quiet for 5-10 seconds at a time while someone swings.

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If you changed this it would not have an equal effect on the field. I can easily imagine a scenario where the crowd stays respectful for a guy they like (say Phil), but is hooting and making all sorts of noise for someone they don't like (say Sabbatini). You would also have an additional magnitude of effect for heavily followed groups, where it wouldn't be the case for lightly followed groups.

That said, I like the respectful quiet, and think this would be opening Pandora's box for additional gamesmanship that has no place in golf.

Canadan said:

I'm a big fan of quiet. Golf is not the only sport who utilizes quiet during play and I think it's entirely appropriate.

Why people can't seem to buy into that concept blow my mind on a daily basis, but that's for another thread I suppose.

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I wouldn't really think its for another thread and is imo very much in line with the topic.
I know this question has been casually asked and discussed in the past occasionally but are there any large numbers of people who cant buy into the quiet concept? I've heard people inquire and wonder "what if" but don't really know many if any that refuse to buy in to it the way it is.

And wouldn't you be just a tad curious what it might be like had golf always been noisy? I suppose it would just seem normal.
or if it now takes on roaring crowd noise as a norm? In some ways that might be pretty cool. of course I can only guess and speculate since its not how its done but it sparks curiosity for me.

rollin said:

I wouldn't really think its for another thread and is imo very much in line with the topic.
I know this question has been casually asked and discussed in the past occasionally but are there any large numbers of people who cant buy into the quiet concept? I've heard people inquire and wonder "what if" but don't really know many if any that refuse to buy in to it the way it is.

And wouldn't you be just a tad curious what it might be like had golf always been noisy? I suppose it would just seem normal.
or if it now takes on roaring crowd noise as a norm? In some ways that might be pretty cool. of course I can only guess and speculate since its not how its done but it sparks curiosity for me.

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I think it would be nearly impossible to keep a consistent crowd volume on a thursday at a PGA event.

100% agree with the OP. Why can't golfers concentrate under lots of noise like most every other sport?

Lynchburg14 said:

100% agree with the OP. Why can't golfers concentrate under lots of noise like most every other sport?

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haha, give golf a try sometime with people psyching you out in your backswing at random times.

It'll probably suck a lot.

Drumdog said:

Some of them will whine and cry and others will ignore it and not be bothered.
Either way, I hope the engineer doesn't blow the horn.

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When engineers blow the whistle is federally mandated I believe. They have to blow it a certain distance from all railroad crossings, etc.

I was sitting in the front row near the stairs of the seating at the first tee of the Shell Houston Open this year with my 8 year old son. My son stood up as Hunter Mahan was about to hit his drive (with his back to us). He wanted to stand at the rail to watch when the old man volunteer for that area grabbed him by his arm and pulled him back into his seat. I was extremely upset but my son didn't act like it bothered him so the man must not have grabbed him hard. I didn't say anything. I really wanted to, but wanted it to be a positive experience and was afraid I would have been kicked out had I said anything.

Canadan said:

haha, give golf a try sometime with people psyching you out in your backswing at random times.

It'll probably suck a lot.

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Can we get the giant cardboard cut outs like at basketball games and have them just off the tee box

-CRW- said:

I was sitting in the front row near the stairs of the seating at the first tee of the Shell Houston Open this year with my 8 year old son. My son stood up as Hunter Mahan was about to hit his drive (with his back to us). He wanted to stand at the rail to watch when the old man volunteer for that area grabbed him by his arm and pulled him back into his seat. I was extremely upset but my son didn't act like it bothered him so the man must not have grabbed him hard. I didn't say anything. I really wanted to, but wanted it to be a positive experience and was afraid I would have been kicked out had I said anything.

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with due respect, from the point of view of the person working the audience we must realize that for all he knows while your son caught his attention he is thinking any number of things that could happen and most probably are things that have actually happened in the past.

From his perspective....

.... a young boy close by gets up and moves as the player is about to swing, Children can be very quick and unpredictable. Quite possibly (for all this guy knows and probably has seen) the boy can and may

get over/under the rail and put himself in harms way,
Do something that disturbs the player,
do something that disturbs another person or child and/or which in turn causes them to be a disturbance or in harms way.
and probably a bunch of other scenarios we cant even think of till only after they take place in which case its then too late.

Even the most unexpected ridiculous things like if the child trips and simply yells out woow! or hit his head or simply makes a noise against the railing drops something or causes any number of possible mishaps. We've all been around kids and even the most harmless and cutest unexpected things happen really fast not to mention more serious things and in this circumstance at that time even the cutest harmless stuff needs to be totally avoided just for sake of disturbance.

If the man did nothing and anything at all happened he would then have not done his job and with that all said I say to you with the utmost respect, I know it sounds a bit rude to say this perhaps but you should have had total control over your son at that very moment in time and he never would have gotten up at the "wrong time" to begin with. Remember, that man has no way of knowing what if anything it could have lead to. All he knows is he sees an young boy moving about and has to imo react to make sure nothing at all happens.

I don't know what I would do if I were him. I would only ever touch a child or another person if I saw they were in harms way and from being a parent myself it would be instinctive reactive for me and I have done so a number of times. I probably would have silently gotten your attention provided I even knew it was your child to begin with, if not or if there was no time (and as the player is to swing there really is none anyway) then I wouldn't know which parent's attention to grab and not being sure of what unexpected thing that might take place I just don't know what I would have done. But let me ask you.... how would you have felt if your son ended up in harms way or simply caused some kind of disturbance and the player backed off or worse became very angry after the shot and the entire crowd looked at you and your son for making the disturbance? or how would you have viewed things if a child from some other parent got up and caused some type of disturbance? I'm not trying to bash you in any way here but with due respect in the end imo you may want to question whether or not you should have taken a tad more responsibility in making certain as possible your son was still or had gotten up prior to the player taking his address. The entire thing never would have happened. Young kids and do unexpected things even while we are very much on top of them. That increases greatly when we are even a little lax.

Hamfist said:

I don't want golf to get drawn into the 21st century where being stupid/loud/boorish/drunk at a sporting event is the norm. As I said in a post somewhere else, if I want that, I'll go to a football game.

Personally, I'd like to see everyone that yells any stupid thing they can at the tee box ushered from the course.

What happened to having a little class?

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Don't use that class word people will take offense.

As for the noise cheer a great shot but there's no reason to be loud and obnoxious while someone is taking a swing.


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As others have mentioned, I think it has to do with the noise level and consistency.

Take the 16th at the Waste Management for example. There is so much constant noise that the players probably don't even hear it once they address the ball.

Now the other extreme, assume it is dead silent and someone yells something stupid at the top of a player's back swing. The human ear and mind is going to instinctively focus on that sound. It may even startle the person slightly. As we all know the smallest miss can have a huge impact 300+ yards downrange.

Finding something between a constant buzz and an outburst during a moment of silence is difficult. With that said, it would have to be all or nothing.

I'm baffled that folks even question respect and etiquette.

Pretty soon folks will want to make it a full contact sport. Unreal

Trout Bum said:

I'm baffled that folks even question respect and etiquette.

Pretty soon folks will want to make it a full contact sport. Unreal

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But who is really questioning any respect by bringing up this subject?
Its not like anyone is saying they will make noise regardless while its technically not allowed. I think its just bringing up the idea that golf would be played while audiences can cheer and make noise. If hypothetically that ever was or became a norm it wouldn't be anymore respectful or disrespectful than the cheering that goes on in other sports. Not saying golf should or shouldn't go that route but why is respect in question?

Mward said:

The noise itself doesn't bother them. Case in point, look at something like the 16th at the Waste Management Open. It's the abruptness of the noise. Much like if you're driving with the radio on, it becomes white noise. If I slam on my horn behind you, you're going to jump. Same concept when playing golf, except that little startle may have just caused them a lot of money or a chance to keep their tour card.

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Couldn't have put this any better....

Trout Bum said:

I'm baffled that folks even question respect and etiquette.

Pretty soon folks will want to make it a full contact sport. Unreal

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I am not questioning respect and/or etiquette, but rather asking if people think the sport needs to evolve. Before everyone jumps on the "tradition" bandwagon, let me ask another question.

Are you still teeing your featherie ball on a mound of sand and hitting it with a wooden driver? Do your clubs have wooden shafts and a wrapped leather grip?

Akh223 said:

I am not questioning respect and/or etiquette, but rather asking if people think the sport needs to evolve. Before everyone jumps on the "tradition" bandwagon, let me ask another question.

Are you still teeing your featherie ball on a mound of sand and hitting it with a wooden driver? Do your clubs have wooden shafts and a wrapped leather grip?

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I'm sorry but this seems like a pretty ridiculous comparison.

What about the sport needs to evolve? People already tell like jackasses after every tee shot.

This isn't played in a stadium it's no the same as other American team sports.

So I ask again, what exactly needs to evolve? Can't have a sport without people acting like drunken fools?


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Akh223 said:

I am not questioning respect and/or etiquette, but rather asking if people think the sport needs to evolve. Before everyone jumps on the "tradition" bandwagon, let me ask another question.

Are you still teeing your featherie ball on a mound of sand and hitting it with a wooden driver? Do your clubs have wooden shafts and a wrapped leather grip?

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Comparing advancements in technology to changing the tradition of the sport are so completely unrelated it's silly. The game evolves as it needs to, as technology comes about that makes things possible that couldn't have been done before. If you're going to go that route at least go with what the pros wear to play. The gear they use and the fact that people should be quite and respectful have no common ground.

JRod said:

I'm sorry but this seems like a pretty ridiculous comparison.

What about the sport needs to evolve? People already tell like jackasses after every tee shot.

This isn't played in a stadium it's no the same as other American team sports.

So I ask again, what exactly needs to evolve? Can't have a sport without people acting like drunken fools?


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Personally, I think the people yelling after the tee shots are extremely annoying, and I would never do it.

I was trying to make the point that all sports evolve. Athletes get stronger, technique is refined with high speed footage, equipment changes, courses have gotten longer, greens faster, balls travel farther, rules change, etc.

I think golf needs to evolve to keep up with modern society and stay a viable sport and industry long term. I am not in the industry, and fairly new to the game, but I see a lot of articles and talk about how the sport is shrinking and what should/can be done to keep it around longer. Just wondering if changing how it is played and viewed would make a difference? TV did wonders for the game of golf in the past 50 years.

Unfortunately, you are always going to have drunken fools, no matter what you do to try to stop them. Half the time they are all in the group right in front or right behind me!

darnall said:

I just want to know if you got to get anywhere close to Debbe Dunning...seeing her on TV for one shot kept me watching that tournament all weekend...hahaha

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No, she didn't make the cut to play on Sunday. Only the top 16 amateurs get to play in the final round.

You are not talking about evolving the game. You are talking about changing fan behavior. It's already as boorish as I ever want to see it.

rollin said:

snip...

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Holy jumping to conclusions Batman. My son was two inches away from me and is 8. He is always under control and well behaved. The entire event was maybe 2-3 seconds. The rail was two feet in front of us and the guy was in arms reach as was I the entire time. There was no safety concern and I'm super over cautious. My son didn't make a sound and was not in any position for Mahan to see him. This was a case of an over zealous hall monitor that had no business touching my child. And just for clarification I have zero problem with corporal punishment, so the contact alone is not the issue. It's the totality of the circumstances.

ETA: Not to mention, the guys actions caused significantly more movement than my son standing up.

-CRW- said:

Holy jumping to conclusions Batman. My son was two inches away from me and is 8. He is always under control and well behaved. The entire event was maybe 2-3 seconds. The rail was two feet in front of us and the guy was in arms reach as was I the entire time. There was no safety concern and I'm super over cautious. My son didn't make a sound and was not in any position for Mahan to see him. This was a case of an over zealous hall monitor that had no business touching my child. And just for clarification I have zero problem with corporal punishment, so the contact alone is not the issue. It's the totality of the circumstances.

ETA: Not to mention, the guys actions caused significantly more movement than my son standing up.

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I didn't really jump to conclusion so much as I just tried to explain just what possibly might such a person (the old man) may often have to deal with. And im not saying he was right either. I also didn't mean for you to take it as though you are not a responsible parent. I even said the words "even if you are the responsible type" children can still quickly do unexpected things even under a good watchful eye.
I was concerned my post might be taken harshly by you and was not so easily translatable to sound easy going via written text and is why I tried to respectfully and carefully explain things thoroughly. But had we had conversation face to face you would have easily seen and experienced anything but harsh or any ill intent.

As for the guy, sure he may have been (as I mentioned in an earlier post) one of those people with no people skills and/or one in which dosnt know how or what to do with his given authority and new found importance. But I always like to give benefit and/or blame on two sides of any story.
2 to 3 seconds to react to something is no time at all and if in his mind he thought any potential for any possible disturbance was in question than he may just simply reacted to do what his job was with no time to really think. And that was to ensure no disturbance and eliminate any possible one before its too late. Wrong for touching your boy? yes imo probably. But wrong for reacting? probably not.

Due to many parents who are not very watchful and their children who behave much more freely at their own will because of it, is it possible this may have been driven in part because there have been times he didn't react to a similar circumstance and a disturbance was caused? I suppose that's very possible and then due to those idiots he technically was not doing his job and then you and your boy come along and unfortunately sort of fall victim to the poor etiquette displayed by others. . Still unless harm was his primary thought should not imo have touched your son unless it was done with utmost respect and care towards him.