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Interesting Marketing Test

SuperStroke
majBC said:
Not if hitting from the tee box as some, especially with the 110 swing speed surely do. It's amazing, to me when I watch a professional tournament how often they hit 3-wood from the tee box. I would also think with a 110 swing speed driver would be taken out of the golfers hand on most courses on several holes.
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You would think so, but idiots like me still hit driver.
 
I looked at this and laughed. There is nothing I gain from this testing as a consumer. I want more data and especially not just total yards. I also don't feel running this test at one swing speed, especially at 110, does the consumer any good. I think the marketing is great for them to show the uneducated consumer though.
 
JB said:
Yes and no. They sell it at 16* because the adjustability in loft offered. Surprised that the lab test did not do like lofts either, since according to some, loft is all that matters...I kid of course, because that debate is not only laughable, but tired. It is interesting that they did not drop the loft a degree, but I understand going with standard setup.
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In the case of the Alpha, I also have to wonder where the weight was placed. Probably back, which at that clubhead speed and loft would explain the high spin rate.
 
I'd have to see the shots for myself in this case. I'd rather see some testing here.
 
Skim alert, what if the other clubs activate at lower speeds due to the shafts?
 
Tadashi70 said:
Skim alert, what if the other clubs activate at lower speeds due to the shafts?
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Don't manufacturers need to live and die by their equipment pairings? Whether it's a robot testing, or some guy in a bay hitting a multitude of clubs, the stock shaft choice is something like club company needs to live and die with, no?

For example, in head to head comparisons, Adams has to hope their shaft choice for the Blue holds up to anything that they might be compared to ... especially since you can't swap it out when you get home.
 
deuce said:
Don't manufacturers need to live and die by their equipment pairings? Whether it's a robot testing, or some guy in a bay hitting a multitude of clubs, the stock shaft choice is something like club company needs to live and die with, no?

For example, in head to head comparisons, Adams has to hope their shaft choice for the Blue holds up to anything that they might be compared to ... especially since you can't swap it out when you get home.
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I'm still curious what shafts were used, since a 110 ss would very likely need x or even xx/tx.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Skim alert, what if the other clubs activate at lower speeds due to the shafts?
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I think that would definitely contribute and is likely part of the strategy to select the club head speed they used. My thought is at that high of a speed several makers stock shaft/head pairings aren't really made to accommodate that speed and there is probably some serious ballooning. All in all though, at least TEE provided consumers significantly more info upfront than the big two OEMs ever do with their marketing smoke and mirrors. Yes the club head speed is pretty unrealistic but at least they provided it and you didn't have to search for some micro-font disclaimer hidden in a corner.
 
Wake said:
I'm still curious what shafts were used, since a 110 ss would very likely need x or even xx/tx.
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For all we know, every club had a 32" Senior Flex in it. We just don't know! We have no idea what was used. There's not enough data to make a thorough judgement on the findings.
 
deuce said:
Don't manufacturers need to live and die by their equipment pairings? Whether it's a robot testing, or some guy in a bay hitting a multitude of clubs, the stock shaft choice is something like club company needs to live and die with, no?

For example, in head to head comparisons, Adams has to hope their shaft choice for the Blue holds up to anything that they might be compared to ... especially since you can't swap it out when you get home.
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Of course they do and they do. But with aftermarket shafts, numbers and various swings it's up to the consumer to realize it's just marketing.

Daddio said:
I think that would definitely contribute and is likely part of the strategy to select the club head speed they used. My thought is at that high of a speed several makers stock shaft/head pairings aren't really made to accommodate that speed and there is probably some serious ballooning. All in all though, at least TEE provided consumers significantly more info upfront than the big two OEMs ever do with their marketing smoke and mirrors. Yes the club head speed is pretty unrealistic but at least they provided it and you didn't have to search for some micro-font disclaimer hidden in a corner.
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I think they all perform at 110 but I know some shafts act better at certain speeds.
 
deuce said:
Don't manufacturers need to live and die by their equipment pairings? Whether it's a robot testing, or some guy in a bay hitting a multitude of clubs, the stock shaft choice is something like club company needs to live and die with, no?

For example, in head to head comparisons, Adams has to hope their shaft choice for the Blue holds up to anything that they might be compared to ... especially since you can't swap it out when you get home.
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Not necessarily, hasn't it been discussed that some stock shaft pairings are there to move product. Not to mention they offer other shaft options as upgrades.
 
For grins I did a little math exercise using the flightscope trajectory optimizer tool. I entered the ball speeds and spin listed and ferreted out what launch angles would be neccessary to provide the total distance listed for each club on soft wet fairways. Some of the lower distance clubs required a noticably higher launch suggesting they likely ballooned significantly at 110 mph swing speed. I then looked at the data sets at 10%, 20%, and 30% reductions in swing speed (99, 88, and 77 mph respectively). I kept the smash factors for each head intact for resultant ball speeds but reduced spin and launch angle in 10% increments with each reduction in club head speed. Another reason I now believe TEE presented this data at 110 mph is at that speed they show a distance gain of greater than 10 yards over all the other clubs in the test. Casual golfers see that as at least one club better and that sells. By the time you reduce speed 10% to 99 mph, TEE is still the front runner, but only by 5 or 6 yards over some of those clubs. At 88 mph, there are clubs in the test that essentially equal the TEE, and many go past it at 77mph swing speed. One question I have for those who do swing their fairway woods around 88-99mph, is something in the low/mid 20s a legit launch angle on trackman or something similar. At my slow swingspeed I deliberately play for roll out with my 3W and keep it low on purpose but when I play with THPers gifted with more club speed I marvel at the height they get with their fairway woods.
 
Man, 110mph 3 wood would be awesome. I hit my driver at 110-112 MAX. A HARD 3w for me is 105+-. If they're all regular flex shafts, no wonder spin is super high. I love my BB815 16* and I hit it much farther than 225 with a slower swing, so no matter what, go try a bunch and get fit.
 
You know I don't swing like a robot. 2/3 of my swings result in mishits of some sort. I need forgiveness. My driver SS is about 90 on the course and 96 at the range. My 3W SS is about 90-92.

I may not be able to get the ball in the air with that club. I happen to need backspin on the ball to keep the ball flying reasonably straight unless I make a perfect strike. So I'll have to hit a number of clubs until I find one that suits me. I don't care about the marketing. I care about whether I can hit it.
 
blugold said:
They are? Tour Edge didn't use like lofts. Probably not like lengths. Did TE use like shafts?
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As close to like as possible based on what the manufacturer makes. Lofts within one degree...they didn't compare their 3 wood to a 7 wood.

Many of the iron comparisons are comparing what is essentially a 4 iron to a 6 iron.

I can appreciate your effort to play devil's advocate here, but to say this is no different is just willfully choosing to argue for argument's sake.
 
mastapp said:
As close to like as possible based on what the manufacturer makes.
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While I am not saying what they did was incorrect, the above is not accurate. For instance the Callaway can be adjusted to 15* with a simple twist of the hosel. Its not as close as possible. Its a test to show how well their fairway wood can be hit at very high test speeds. The other clubs are shown for marketing.
 
mastapp said:
As close to like as possible based on what the manufacturer makes. Lofts within one degree...they didn't compare their 3 wood to a 7 wood.

Many of the iron comparisons are comparing what is essentially a 4 iron to a 6 iron.

I can appreciate your effort to play devil's advocate here, but to say this is no different is just willfully choosing to argue for argument's sake.
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I'm not touching the iron loft debate. If somebody doesn't understand why lofts are what they are at this point, this isn't the time to talk about it.


TE used a 16* Big Bertha fw. That isn't the samething as a 15*. It isn't even the same as a 3w. It is the 4w in the BB815 line. But where in the graphic JB posted is the shaft make, model, length, or flex mentioned?
 
blugold said:
But where in the graphic JB posted is the shaft make, model, length, or flex mentioned?
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That's a good point, too blu.

It's marketing at it's best, laughable, but at it's best.
 
The more 3 woods and drivers I test the more I believe it's all about optimizing shaft and launch. I have drivers from Callaway, Adams, Ping, Bridgestone, TM, Cleveland, Mizuno, and Tour Exotics that I all hit great as long as the shaft agrees with me. The clubheads themselves don't seem to make nearly as much difference as the head does. I pick a 3 wood and driver head more for looks and sound than anything else.
 
Agent Jay said:
That's a good point, too blu.

It's marketing at it's best, laughable, but at it's best.
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It's marketing. No shame in that. What is laughable is that Tour Edge used a longer shaft and a lower loft to try to prove that their club is longer than the market leader's.
 
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