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New respect for single digit indexes

rollin said:
managing misses, eliminating blow ups, eliminating mistakes, etc etc.
I mean I think we all know these things are needed in order to score better. But knowing these things doesn't make you then do them. Some make it sound as though they thought of these things and is what lead them to better scores. I mean don't we all want to do those things? You don't somehow just tap yourself on the forehead with a "Oh, now I see, this is what I need to do" thing and then all of a sudden you start to score better. You score better because you got better at those things and have the ability to do so. Your not scoring better because you discovered you shouldn't be doing them.

I mean..... eliminate blow ups, minimize mistakes, managing misses? not trying to sound mean I promise but of course you will score lower. For those who do care about score that's sort of the whole point of golf isn't it? To be as good as you can? make fewest mistakes and misses as possible? Problem is that its not that simple. You don't just become better due to knowing these things. You've always known these things, havnt you? The only thing one can change by thinking about it is the decisions he/she makes for shot choices. Other than that you just don't become better at making your shots because you know you should minimize misses, blowups and mistakes.
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Golfers may think they know these simple things but I rarely see them in practice on the course. I'll speak to the eliminating blow ups and course management with this: I know of exactly two other golfers at my club besides me who hit more fairway woods than drivers off the tee on the par 5's at our course. One of them hovers just above a 0 index and the other one is a +2 or better. If you are not thinking about and hitting something less than a driver on par 5's that you can't reach in two shots you haven't passed course management 101.
 
When I play with other people my handicap (low single digit), I'm always in awe and feel they are so much better than me, until I actually think about our scores. Putting, chipping and pitching has always come naturally for me, but people around my handicap are often better ball strikers than I am, especially off the tee.

I'm one of those who had the benefit of starting early. Think I was around 12 years old when I got into single digit, but soon after that I began skateboarding and didn't touch a club again until I was grown. My friend that I play the most with, took up golf for the first time at the same time as I got back into it. It pains me to see how much he is struggling with every aspect of his game, but particularly around the greens. I think it's a very different learning curve if you start playing as an adult. The good news is, we both probably think it's equally fun.

Apart from practicing and playing regularly, a good way to improve faster is to play with other people that are better than you. I find this true for everything in life.
 
tahoebum said:
Golfers may think they know these simple things but I rarely see them in practice on the course. I'll speak to the eliminating blow ups and course management with this: I know of exactly two other golfers at my club besides me who hit more fairway woods than drivers off the tee on the par 5's at our course. One of them hovers just above a 0 index and the other one is a +2 or better. If you are not thinking about and hitting something less than a driver on par 5's that you can't reach in two shots you haven't passed course management 101.
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I totally get the gist of your post. But what I mean to say is that understanding these things doesn't somehow on its own make one good enough at golf to be a single capper. Nothing about knowing these things make it so that one all of a sudden wont mess up shots nor make it so that one will make enough good ones consistently enough. One can make best decisions, play to strengths, avoid weaknesses, avoid unnecessary risks, etc , etc, but that still doesn't make one good at the game. It should make you better than you are or were before you played smarter, but thats a whole different thing from being good enough to be a single capper which regardless is going to require not all that many mishits and poor shots. In the end that comes down to ability. That's only obtained (and only hopefully) via practice and/or lessons, etc.. I wouldn't think you would disagree with that.

As for playing less than driver on a 5? I don't just use driver on all holes either and I too feel too many use them when they have little need to and end up in a worse situation because of it. I don't feel its necessary on all holes and/or where it presents a risk that a shorter club wont. However this also depends how far one drives and how far they hit their other clubs. I am not long by standards of 300 yrds but I am long enough with my driver and also longer clubs that I don't have a need for it on some holes and simply just try to get to what I would call position "A". Which for me and my liking is basically (hole layout depended) a place on the fairway with a good safe landing zone and a good distance and look at the green. That could be (hole dependent) a 3w or a 4h or whatever. That said, there are plenty people who will have just as much success or poor shots with their 3w , 5w, longest irons and hybrids as they will with their driver and so between that fact and not being long enough anyway it makes little difference to them.

On the par5 that I cant reach anyway? I would agree and also posted that very question/thread here a long time ago. Don't really recall what most the answers were. But from my experience most par5's have a pretty nice layout for the driver tee shot and little reason why I wouldn't use driver unless of course I was worthless with it that day or the shot held risk. But other than that if im hitting it well I will use it on most the par5's I have played. Most often (other than what I mentioned) there is little reason not to. I wouldn't say if one hits driver on a par5 hole they cant reach that it fails them at course management. That's all hole, current ability, and conditions dependent. I would say they should give thought to it and that's the part they never even think to do which fails management class. But I say its much more the par4's where they need to often give better thought to managing the hole via less than driver. There are imo far more par4's where driver is not needed and which also present risk with it. That's where far too many hackers most often never even give the slightest thought about it and is where the failure at course management occurs imo.
 
tahoebum said:
I'm doing the same with my 11 year old although having a 19 and 17 year old, I'm not confident that she will stay with it. I'll do my best with her since it's my last chance to have another avid golfer in the family. The funny thing is my son is an exceptional athlete but is super casual about golf and only plays 2 or 3 rounds per year when we are on vacation. His normal driver swing is 113 mph and with his coordination he could get to a 5 index within a year or two if he would just play/practice 50 days each summer. I tell him to start playing now because in a few more years when he has a real job and responsibility he will regret not playing more but of course he thinks he's social life is way more interesting than the golf and I can't really disagree. They all make their own way.......
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It's a tough balance. Tell him to get friends that golf and tell them you'll buy them the beers....that'll get them on board!

(I'm kidding of course about buying them the beer....unless they're 21+)
 
There's a lot of great advice in here. I'm a very inaccurate tee player and a lot of my ability to stay a single digit handicap comes from my ability to scramble. I can never give up and have to trust my short game to get me out of a lot of trouble.
 
rollin said:
I totally get the gist of your post. But what I mean to say is that understanding these things doesn't somehow on its own make one good enough at golf to be a single capper. Nothing about knowing these things make it so that one all of a sudden wont mess up shots nor make it so that one will make enough good ones consistently enough. One can make best decisions, play to strengths, avoid weaknesses, avoid unnecessary risks, etc , etc, but that still doesn't make one good at the game. It should make you better than you are or were before you played smarter, but thats a whole different thing from being good enough to be a single capper which regardless is going to require not all that many mishits and poor shots. In the end that comes down to ability. That's only obtained (and only hopefully) via practice and/or lessons, etc.. I wouldn't think you would disagree with that.

As for playing less than driver on a 5? I don't just use driver on all holes either and I too feel too many use them when they have little need to and end up in a worse situation because of it. I don't feel its necessary on all holes and/or where it presents a risk that a shorter club wont. However this also depends how far one drives and how far they hit their other clubs. I am not long by standards of 300 yrds but I am long enough with my driver and also longer clubs that I don't have a need for it on some holes and simply just try to get to what I would call position "A". Which for me and my liking is basically (hole layout depended) a place on the fairway with a good safe landing zone and a good distance and look at the green. That could be (hole dependent) a 3w or a 4h or whatever. That said, there are plenty people who will have just as much success or poor shots with their 3w , 5w, longest irons and hybrids as they will with their driver and so between that fact and not being long enough anyway it makes little difference to them.

On the par5 that I cant reach anyway? I would agree and also posted that very question/thread here a long time ago. Don't really recall what most the answers were. But from my experience most par5's have a pretty nice layout for the driver tee shot and little reason why I wouldn't use driver unless of course I was worthless with it that day or the shot held risk. But other than that if im hitting it well I will use it on most the par5's I have played. Most often (other than what I mentioned) there is little reason not to. I wouldn't say if one hits driver on a par5 hole they cant reach that it fails them at course management. That's all hole, current ability, and conditions dependent. I would say they should give thought to it and that's the part they never even think to do which fails management class. But I say its much more the par4's where they need to often give better thought to managing the hole via less than driver. There are imo far more par4's where driver is not needed and which also present risk with it. That's where far too many hackers most often never even give the slightest thought about it and is where the failure at course management occurs imo.
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This is exactly why I think golf is so interesting to all of us. Everybody has different strengths and weaknesses, and it is up to you to know/understand/play to those. One person's course management could be completely different than another's, but that's ok as long as it plays to your strengths.

My strength is driving accuracy, so I am usually better off hitting driver than a hybrid off the tee. I'm more comfortable going driver-short iron to 100 yards on a par 5 than hybrid-hybrid.

I will hit less than driver off the tee if my driver will put me inside 75 yards on par 4s.

I don't believe this means I'm wrong in my course management, I just have different weaknesses to avoid than others.



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KEV said:
There's a lot of great advice in here. I'm a very inaccurate tee player and a lot of my ability to stay a single digit handicap comes from my ability to scramble. I can never give up and have to trust my short game to get me out of a lot of trouble.
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Just to provide the contrast. I am a single digit that has good long game and mediocre short game. I make my scores by not getting in trouble and hitting greens and 2 or less putts when I do. If I am missing greens I and working hard for par.
 
KEV said:
There's a lot of great advice in here. I'm a very inaccurate tee player and a lot of my ability to stay a single digit handicap comes from my ability to scramble. I can never give up and have to trust my short game to get me out of a lot of trouble.
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Of course there are always exceptions to just about every generalizations we make but I don't think its possible to even be a single digit unless we posses a good short game. I think that has to be a no brainer.
That said, your inaccuracy from the tees is only spoken in relative terms. Because there is also no way to be single digit unless your general ball striking is getting you near enough the greens you miss within regulation amount of strokes most the time. So again. it comes down to overall basic ability but knowing these things in itself doesn't make us then have that ability. It only suggests that we try to obtain it and also keep it. And many of us simply cant for any number of a hundred reasons.
 
rollin said:
Of course there are always exceptions to just about every generalizations we make but I don't think its possible to even be a single digit unless we posses a good short game. I think that has to be a no brainer.
That said, your inaccuracy from the tees is only spoken in relative terms. Because there is also no way to be single digit unless your general ball striking is getting you near enough the greens you miss within regulation amount of strokes most the time. So again. it comes down to overall basic ability but knowing these things in itself doesn't make us then have that ability. It only suggests that we try to obtain it and also keep it. And many of us simply cant for any number of a hundred reasons.
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I understand your point on lack of ablility and talent but most bogey golfers throw away at least a few strokes every round not from poor execution, but from poor choices pre-shot on club selection or intended line of play. The also are unwilling to do simple things like take a putting lesson, get fit for a putter, or even use alignment aids when practicing. Single digit golfers don't always do these things either but they are much more likely to do them than a 20 handicapper.

People are often surprised when I'm hitting a 3 iron off the tee or laying up with a 9 iron on a par 5. I'm still surprised after all these years that many bogey golfers hit driver on every par 4 and 5 and leave themselves such awkward distances and/or short side themselves for their approach shots on par 5's.
 
tahoebum said:
I understand your point on lack of ablility and talent but most bogey golfers throw away at least a few strokes every round not from poor execution, but from poor choices pre-shot on club selection or intended line of play. The also are unwilling to do simple things like take a putting lesson, get fit for a putter, or even use alignment aids when practicing. Single digit golfers don't always do these things either but they are much more likely to do them than a 20 handicapper.

People are often surprised when I'm hitting a 3 iron off the tee or laying up with a 9 iron on a par 5. I'm still surprised after all these years that many bogey golfers hit driver on every par 4 and 5 and leave themselves such awkward distances and/or short side themselves for their approach shots on par 5's.
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agreed. And fwiw Im always on the range with my alignment sticks lol. I often do little swing drills between htting the balls too. Get a lot of funny stares lol but I don't care one bit as I try to do whatever I have to get better. But also get some appreciative stares too and even a couple honest but curious good questions too.

I also find I get questioned playing wise as to why am I looking at yardages when Im still too far away? People have said "ah, your too far just hit your longest" and Ill explain im looking to see what I want to lay up with. Then they say "oh" and its like as if its something they never even ever thought of.

You do/practice what you can, as much you can, try to do it as efficiently and make it all worthy as possible in some correct fashion to help improvement imo, and when playing try to make the best decisions that work to your favor instead of against it whenever you can. Thats my approach. After that and from all that we will be as good as our abilities allow. For some that can be low and for others not all so much and need to work harder than others. But all we can do is keep trying.
 
rollin said:
Of course there are always exceptions to just about every generalizations we make but I don't think its possible to even be a single digit unless we posses a good short game. I think that has to be a no brainer.
That said, your inaccuracy from the tees is only spoken in relative terms. Because there is also no way to be single digit unless your general ball striking is getting you near enough the greens you miss within regulation amount of strokes most the time. So again. it comes down to overall basic ability but knowing these things in itself doesn't make us then have that ability. It only suggests that we try to obtain it and also keep it. And many of us simply cant for any number of a hundred reasons.
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Ill be the guinea pig on this example. I have always struggled around the greens, and many a THPer can attest this fact. Ive improved a lot but I still cannot claim a good short game.

Now, I make up for it by hitting most of my fairways with good length, hit half of my greens, and am a pretty good putter, but my short game has always held me back.

To an earlier point, there is definitely a difference between knowing what to do to play better(missing in the right spots, club/shot selection, playing to middle of greens, etc.) and actually doing it on course. I cant even count how many times Ive been on course with people and they ask for shot selection advice and the smart scoring play is the last option they are considering. They ll have something like 150 yards downhill to a back pin with water behind the green and the club choice is at the very bottom of the range of how far they can hit that club. The only thought for them is that they want to fly that ball to that dangerous back pin, but it would be very easy to fly it and end up in the hazard. I would have to make the most impassioned plea to them to take one less club and play short and to the left, which at worst would leave an easy chip.

The hero shot there is the sexy choice and most golfers seem to choose that route over playing to a safe spot and making a boring par. Its that critical on course risk/reward decision making that many golfers dont embrace enough in the moment. Even short game suffers from this. Many times, Ive had a short sided chip and instead of just getting the ball on the green, even if it leaves a long putt coming back, Ill try to be too cute and leave it in the rough with the same issue confronting me on the next shot. It has honestly taken every ounce of focus for me to stop thinking like that when Im playing.

That costs us a ton of strokes during a round, but its one thing to know what we are supposed to do and another to actually do it in the moment.
 
EaglevsFalcon said:
To an earlier point, there is definitely a difference between knowing what to do to play better(missing in the right spots, club/shot selection, playing to middle of greens, etc.) and actually doing it on course.
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This is spot on also. One thing I've learned as I've got older is to play smarter. I'm looking out for where hazards are and where a good miss is, play to specific yardages, club up and swing softer vs. swing harder, etc. Don't get me wrong, I still occasionally try hero shots (they're fun!), but it's nearly as often as I used to.
 
Golfin Rev said:
I'm a single digit, but let me let you in on a little secret. We still hit bad shots! It's how you hit the next one. Somehow getting a par. Or getting a bogey instead of a double or a triple, is the key. You do that, and next thing you know, you have that single digit handicap!

For example. A couple of weeks ago, I shot a 76. You want to know how many fairways I hit? 4. But somehow I kept on grinding out pars. Just keep working on those recovery shots. I can't wait to watch and see you get there!
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This sounds like me. I average about 4 fairways and 8 greens a round... But I keep away from compounding errors with bad choices after a bad shot and my short game is good.

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I have long ago seen a single digit and have hovered the 12 for a long time but I have committed to more time this year and hope the single digit reappears soon

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tahoebum said:
...most bogey golfers throw away at least a few strokes every round not from poor execution, but from poor choices pre-shot on club selection or intended line of play.
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So true! I can't tell you how many times I've gotten in trouble and tried to play the "hero" shot, maybe a low 20 yard slice below and around some trees or through a small "window" in the trees only to end up with a blow up hole. I quit doing that a long time ago. I cannot tell you how many times I now actually save par by taking my medicine and just hitting or chipping my way out of trouble then making a good to decent next shot or putt. At the very least I save bogey instead of something far worse.
 
I'll add one thing(don't think I missed it reading thru, but if I did sorry)
One of the biggest things that helped me last year get to single digits was knowing how to relax and not worry about my score and to also totally forget a bad shot or bad hole. I can be keeping track of score for us and not tell you what I am over par, I just don't think about it while playing.
One other thing would be the amount of play and practice, I managed 106 rounds last year, and lots of range and putting green time. It makes a big difference. (So far this year my HC has crept up each revision, but that is part of the game.
 
Course management is easily understood but rarely implemented. I think largely because very few people are honest with themselves about their ability to hit shots from trouble. I had one hole this last weekend where my discipline faltered and it cost me 4 strokes instead of 1 against par.
 
so-illhacker said:
I know what you mean man, I'm sitting at 10.4 right now and it's gonna be tough to get over that hurdle. I need more time on the short game area, range, and at the course. If I can sharpen up the short game and get off the tee more consistently I'll have a lot better chance, easy right?
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Your game <100yds was pretty good when I saw it.

tahoebum said:
Golfers may think they know these simple things but I rarely see them in practice on the course. I'll speak to the eliminating blow ups and course management with this: I know of exactly two other golfers at my club besides me who hit more fairway woods than drivers off the tee on the par 5's at our course. One of them hovers just above a 0 index and the other one is a +2 or better. If you are not thinking about and hitting something less than a driver on par 5's that you can't reach in two shots you haven't passed course management 101.
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I left my driver at home last Sunday and didn't hit anything longer than my 18* driving iron on the front 9 and 2h on the back nine. It was a nice surprise to play from so many fairways!

KEV said:
There's a lot of great advice in here. I'm a very inaccurate tee player and a lot of my ability to stay a single digit handicap comes from my ability to scramble. I can never give up and have to trust my short game to get me out of a lot of trouble.
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I always say that my short game gets better with the more greens that I miss.

You've got some good overall game. There's no doubt that you should be in single digits.
 
brianmk24 said:
Your game <100yds was pretty good when I saw it.



I left my driver at home last Sunday and didn't hit anything longer than my 18* driving iron on the front 9 and 2h on the back nine. It was a nice surprise to play from so many fairways!



I always say that my short game gets better with the more greens that I miss.

You've got some good overall game. There's no doubt that you should be in single digits.
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Thanks man. I'm still envious of your machine like swing, it was fun to watch.

By the way, you need to make it to South Dakota this year to get our state crossed off your golf list. We need to get another round in together!
 
KEV said:
Thanks man. I'm still envious of your machine like swing, it was fun to watch.

By the way, you need to make it to South Dakota this year to get our state crossed off your golf list. We need to get another round in together!
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I was thinking about you and Dave on Sunday as I was teeing off with my hybrid and long iron!

I thought you guys were going to toss me into the marsh on #6 after I striped my 3w and you called me the robot.

I'd love to get out to SD soon and play with you and Jake and anybody else!

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brianmk24 said:
Your game <100yds was pretty good when I saw it..
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Thanks dude! It bails me out from time to time. Just wasn't enough... we had a blast though brother!
 
brianmk24 said:
I was thinking about you and Dave on Sunday as I was teeing off with my hybrid and long iron!

I thought you guys were going to toss me into the marsh on #6 after I striped my 3w and you called me the robot.

I'd love to get out to SD soon and play with you and Jake and anybody else!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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Iron Brian!!
 
rollin said:
managing misses, eliminating blow ups, eliminating mistakes, etc etc.
I mean I think we all know these things are needed in order to score better. But knowing these things doesn't make you then do them. Some make it sound as though they thought of these things and is what lead them to better scores. I mean don't we all want to do those things? You don't somehow just tap yourself on the forehead with a "Oh, now I see, this is what I need to do" thing and then all of a sudden you start to score better. You score better because you got better at those things and have the ability to do so. Your not scoring better because you discovered you shouldn't be doing them.

I mean..... eliminate blow ups, minimize mistakes, managing misses? not trying to sound mean I promise but of course you will score lower. For those who do care about score that's sort of the whole point of golf isn't it? To be as good as you can? make fewest mistakes and misses as possible? Problem is that its not that simple. You don't just become better due to knowing these things. You've always known these things, havnt you? The only thing one can change by thinking about it is the decisions he/she makes for shot choices. Other than that you just don't become better at making your shots because you know you should minimize misses, blowups and mistakes.
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At my number I realize I am going to have mishits, probably 2 or 3 per round, (I am tinkering with ball position for that right now) but I still regularly forget the importance of the layup (I'd rather a next shot from short grass than taking a two in the ball drop) , elimination of hero shots (they never work) realistic length per club (usually can't carry the hazard) , and position of obstacles. A bunker is often 2 sometimes 3 shots. (another part of the game I am working on). This years main thought when playing "is" to think. About the right shot and the one after that.
 
Yes, yes and yes! One thing I love about the swing by swing app that I use, is that I'm not looking at my score at all. I can't tell you how many times I have felt like I have played absolutely terrible and shot in the low 80s. But it also has helped me not "choke" when I have a chance to break 80. If you are constantly looking at your scorecard, and seeing bogeys pile up, you can get the feeling that you need to make hero shots to get some birdies and pars to offset. Try not looking at your score the whole round, and see how that helps.
Snickerdog said:
I'll add one thing(don't think I missed it reading thru, but if I did sorry)
One of the biggest things that helped me last year get to single digits was knowing how to relax and not worry about my score and to also totally forget a bad shot or bad hole. I can be keeping track of score for us and not tell you what I am over par, I just don't think about it while playing.
One other thing would be the amount of play and practice, I managed 106 rounds last year, and lots of range and putting green time. It makes a big difference. (So far this year my HC has crept up each revision, but that is part of the game.
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Having a short memory is something else that has helped me. I'm pretty quick to forget bad shots and get over it. No sense in dwelling on something that happened in the past.
 
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