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Another "what would you do"

Phil75070

Phil75070

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The thread about hitting a house and breaking a window got me to thinking. What if the situation were you hooked or sliced a ball onto a road running alongside the course and either broke a windshield causing an accident or the driver saw the ball coming and swerved to avoid it and an accident occurred. Is the golfer responsible for any damage? Or, like a homeowner, by driving on a road bordering a golf course does the driver assume all risk?
 
I know my home course the first hole runs parallel with a road and a big sign expressly states the golfer is the liable party.
 
Most of the court cases have ruled that the golfer is not liable whether his ball struck another golfer, adjacent property, or someone on an adjacent roadway.

https://www.cmaa.org/PcsTemplate.aspx?id=37197

Golfer Liability to Golfer. While playing golf with friends, a golfer “shanked” a shot striking another golfer in the left eye with the errant ball. . The injured golfer claimed that the failure to warn (yell “Fore!”) of the errant shot amounted to negligence and caused the injury. On review, a New York Court found that a person who participates in a sport or recreational activity consents to certain risks that are inherent in and arise out of the nature of the sport generally and flow from such participation. . While an injured golfer is not deemed to have assumed the risks of reckless or intentional conduct or concealed or unreasonably increased risks, the failure to warn of the intent to strike the golf ball did not amount to such and did not unreasonably increase the risk nor did it amount to intentional or reckless conduct. . An errant golf ball reflects a commonly appreciated risk of golf.
This ruling does not stand alone. The mere fact that a golf ball, when hit, does not then travel its intended course does not establish negligence. . Whatever the level of ability, golfers cannot avoid a hook or slice. Hence, there is generally no duty to warn persons not in the intended line of flight of an intention to drive. . Golfers assume the risk of injury in playing golf given that it is "common knowledge" and "an inherent risk" that golf balls don't always wind up going where a player intends. .

Golfer Liability to Adjacent Property Owner.What about the property owner living adjacent to a golf course who is struck by an errant golf ball? That question has been answered, also. In a lawsuit alleging liability for failure to warn the occupant of a nearby residence before driving the ball, (among other claims), the injured property owner was not successful in his claim for injuries from an errant golf ball. In reviewing the circumstance, the court noted "persons living in organized communities must suffer some damage, and annoyance and inconvenience from each other. If one lives in the city, he must expect to suffer the dirt, smoke, noise some odors, and confusion incident to city life. So, too, one who deliberately decides to reside in the suburbs on very desirable lots and adjoining golf clubs and thus receive the social benefits and other not inconsiderable advantages of country club surroundings must accept the annoyances." Consistent with the above, other courts have found that those property owners living adjacent to a golf course should be viewed much like a spectator at a sporting event. From that vantage point the assumption of risk, as applied to spectators at sporting events, also applies to those with homes adjacent to an existing golf course. While actually not a spectator of golf being played, the adjacent property owner who moves into a home adjacent to an existing golf course chooses, much like a spectator does, to participate in the benefits of the golf course’s pastoral setting and accepts the inherent dangers of golf. Importantly these cases do recognize that this result occurs so long as the golf course has been designed and maintained as a reasonably safe golf course consistent with the risks inherent in the sport and if so, the course, as well as the golfer, will have no liability to adjacent homeowner. But that will be discussed more so in our next month's discussion.

Golfer Liability to Pedestrian on Adjacent Roadway. Taking the above one step further, it has been determined that a golfer who accidentally misses a fairway and sends the ball off the golf course onto an adjacent roadway can be found not liable in negligence for the resulting injury. Simply stated, what amounted to nothing more than a poorly hit tee shot does not result in liability to the golfer for injuries suffered by someone on the adjacent roadway.
 
If I hit a house a car or anything else I'm not supposed to, I own up to it and make it my responsibility to resolve the situation. If someone I'm playing with does, you're darn certain I'm ensuring they do the same (friend or random pairing). It's the decent human thing to do regardless of legal precedent or otherwise. It's quite sad social commentary this discussion topic has to come up and inspire debate as frequently as it does.
 
PizzaBear said:
I know my home course the first hole runs parallel with a road and a big sign expressly states the golfer is the liable party.
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Signs put up by a course really don't mean squat legally.

If you swerve to avoid a deer and fall off a cliff it is an at fault accident for the driver. In the scenario in question, I can't see any liability on the golfer.
 
Howzat said:
Signs put up by a course really don't mean squat legally.

If you swerve to avoid a deer and fall off a cliff it is an at fault accident for the driver. In the scenario in question, I can't see any liability on the golfer.
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I'm not picking an argument so please don't take it as combative, but in the same vain if you throw a rock at someone's house/ car that Is your responsibility. How is hitting a golf ball any different?
 
JayB said:
I'm not picking an argument so please don't take it as combative, but in the same vain if you throw a rock at someone's house/ car that Is your responsibility. How is hitting a golf ball any different?
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I was speaking specifically about the case where he didn't actually hit the car. I agree with you that what is morally right and legally right do not always connect like they should. Let's say there is a baseball field near the road and a 9 yr. old hits a homer and takes out a windshield. Does the 9 year old owe for the windshield?
 
Here is another angle: I work for a major insurance company. If one of our customers called in a claim for damages from a golf ball coming from the course or if our driver swerved to avoid one and damages occurred as a result, we would not try to subrogate the "responsible" party. We would lose in court.
 
JayB said:
I'm not picking an argument so please don't take it as combative, but in the same vain if you throw a rock at someone's house/ car that Is your responsibility. How is hitting a golf ball any different?
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Throwing a rock would be negligent and on purpose. A golf ball hit off line is part of the game. Now I am fairly certain I have seen a case where a golfer hit at a persons house on purpose to cut a dogleg. In that case the golfer is responsible but you would have to prove he hit at the house so might be tough.
 
JayB said:
I'm not picking an argument so please don't take it as combative, but in the same vain if you throw a rock at someone's house/ car that Is your responsibility. How is hitting a golf ball any different?
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two totally different things there imo and not even close to being similar. The rock is pure intent.
 
this whole topic (which does come up every so often) is usually an interesting one.

I honestly don't ever quite understand how (except in the case of intent) the player should be responsible. I think responsibility (or insurance) should be placed on golf course insurance as a business.

Whether its a home, a personal injury, a car window, a car accident, or whatever, and whether or not its happens on or off course property I really feel as a business it all should be part of business expense to carry such insurance when the issue came as a result of the business. Imo the nature of the game you are selling (as a product) that's being played on your property as your business is going to hold risks and liabilities just like any other business. Those risks in this case (a golf course) are going to be anyone or anything getting hit with a golf ball. That's just an ugly nature of this game. And thus the nature of the product your business is selling.

Imo the issue occurs/occurred while someone (a paying customer) participated in what your offering and is doing so at your place of business. In this case a golf course and a round of golf. Given the nature of the game there is simply a liability that comes with it. I cannot see how anyone other than the golf course should be carrying insurance to insure against this liability that is 100% part of the product being sold. No player should ever be held responsible (unless neglect and/or intent). I just cant see it being any other way.
 
JayB said:
I'm not picking an argument so please don't take it as combative, but in the same vain if you throw a rock at someone's house/ car that Is your responsibility. How is hitting a golf ball any different?
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Because you're not aiming for the car.

If some teenagers were found to have decided to turn 45-degrees and hit balls at the road on purpose, they certainly could be found negligent and responsible for all damage they cause.

But just because you hit a bad shot does not mean you were negligent.
 
JayB said:
I'm not picking an argument so please don't take it as combative, but in the same vain if you throw a rock at someone's house/ car that Is your responsibility. How is hitting a golf ball any different?
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I'm guessing Your intent will go along way in proving negligence/responsibility.

If you aim at someone and hit them your liable.

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I have and will continue to stand up if I cause an issue when playing golf. When I first started playing years ago, I hooked a ball over the short fence at a public course. There were no signs stating anything and my ball hit a parked car causing a dent. I left a note with my contact info.

While my game has progressed since that time, I would own up to something I've done. I couldn't live with myself if I did not!
 
Fingerz said:
I have and will continue to stand up if I cause an issue when playing golf. When I first started playing years ago, I hooked a ball over the short fence at a public course. There were no signs stating anything and my ball hit a parked car causing a dent. I left a note with my contact info.

While my game has progressed since that time, I would own up to something I've done. I couldn't live with myself if I did not!
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here's the thing,.....I too would be a stand up guy about my mistake. But that being said, it just shouldn't be the case. Its only because there is not any responsible party but that is a flaw imo and a huge one. It is my belief that any golf course should hold this responsibility simply due to the nature of the game of which is the business they are in. That imo should be law. As honorable as we may be, its still imo just not right that we would even have to.

What about the guy who doesn't golf much at all due to money (there are plenty) and who struggle to afford all involved to even play the game and truly cannot really afford to pay for any damages? The whole process is just screwed up imo and there should be golf course insurance. Its not like these things (as far as costing significant money) happen all so much.
 
I think the decision is easy - own up and the truth shall set you free.


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rollin said:
here's the thing,.....I too would be a stand up guy about my mistake. But that being said, it just shouldn't be the case. Its only because there is not any responsible party but that is a flaw imo and a huge one. It is my belief that any golf course should hold this responsibility simply due to the nature of the game of which is the business they are in. That imo should be law. As honorable as we may be, its still imo just not right that we would even have to.

What about the guy who doesn't golf much at all due to money (there are plenty) and who struggle to afford all involved to even play the game and truly cannot really afford to pay for any damages? The whole process is just screwed up imo and there should be golf course insurance. Its not like these things (as far as costing significant money) happen all so much.
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While I understand your stance on this whole thing, your personal liability portion of your insurance (both home insurance and "renters" insurance) will pay for this with no deductible. It's why you have it.
 
And while you're at it, most people carry $300,000 liability insurance. Bump that sucker up to $500,000. The extra cost is so low it doesn't make sense not to do it.
 
Not a lawyer can't help you but own up to it


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I'd knock on the door, offer my insurance info and let the process play out from there. If I'm liable then I have no problem offering up the dough, etc, but I will adhere to the rules set in places in whatever state I'm playing. For instance, we recently had a tree go down in a freak storm that damaged the neighbor's (daycare) garage... we gave them our insurance, but weren't found liable... much like anything, I play by the rules set in place
 
rallo said:
I'd knock on the door, offer my insurance info and let the process play out from there. If I'm liable then I have no problem offering up the dough, etc, but I will adhere to the rules set in places in whatever state I'm playing. For instance, we recently had a tree go down in a freak storm that damaged the neighbor's (daycare) garage... we gave them our insurance, but weren't found liable... much like anything, I play by the rules set in place
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That's pretty standard, I think, as it was an act of nature. Now if the tree was dead and you left it and it fell over onto their garage, then it would be on you.
 
You are describing my introduction to the game of golf.

I was 8 years old and was with my dad in his new company-leased Chevy Impala. Just left Michigan State University in East Lansing, Michigan when a golf ball hit the windshield right in front of me. I nearly had a big accident right there in the front seat. It was only then that we noticed the golf course left of the road. Fortunately, it did not scar me for life and keep me from this game I now love.
 
Smallville said:
While I understand your stance on this whole thing, your personal liability portion of your insurance (both home insurance and "renters" insurance) will pay for this with no deductible. It's why you have it.
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smalls, Im a bit confused. What insurance do you mean? Are you saying my home owners insurance which has nothing to do with me heading to some golf course to play and accidentally hitting something/someone with an errant shot will pay? This would surprise me as its hard enough to get them to pay for anything and then even if you do the rates go up. HO insurance is even worse than car insurance when it comes to what they will pay for and also raising rates. Then of course there are many renters who don't pay insurance at all so Im just not following or I am simply ignorant to this info, or I am misunderstanding what you meant. And all states are different and so are policies.

I know that technically (if one has full auto insurance) they can put auto damage in a claim, but that about it as far as I know for as at least your auto getting damaged.

But anyway I do feel a golf course should carry the responsibility simply (as said) due to the nature of the game/business in itself of which the golf course is in.
 
rallo said:
I'd knock on the door, offer my insurance info and let the process play out from there. If I'm liable then I have no problem offering up the dough, etc, but I will adhere to the rules set in places in whatever state I'm playing. For instance, we recently had a tree go down in a freak storm that damaged the neighbor's (daycare) garage... we gave them our insurance, but weren't found liable... much like anything, I play by the rules set in place
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I find that ridiculous. The tree is yours...in your yard. Who cares how your property damaged someone else's but the insurance fine print. 50/50 would go a long way at least I would think.
 
J4U said:
I find that ridiculous. The tree is yours...in your yard. Who cares how your property damaged someone else's but the insurance fine print. 50/50 would go a long way at least I would think.
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So you would pay 1/2 ($5,000 in this case) out of pocket, as your insurance wouldn't cover it rather than go by the rules set in place and have their insurance take care of it?
 
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