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Play To Win? Or Is It Just Gamesmanship?

golfinnut

golfinnut

DANNY LE! WHAT A GUY!
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HEAT!
Playing the other night with a few guys, (mind you we are playing basically for a beer) but something got to me & was wondering if I just over reacted.

How many people have you played with that during a match, 2 vs 2, are constantly asking you before you hole out .... "so what's this for?" or "what are lying here?" or "You putting for a par or bogey here?" All before you actually hole out and finish the hole!?
For some reason this just annoyed the hell out of me because it happened more than once during the round. Each time it seemed as though he was doing it on purpose.
Grant it, I should have played better and blocked it out. If I was playing better and would have made the putts then maybe it wouldn't have annoyed me as much but it did. So if he was trying to get under my skin then he accomplished it. Played one of the worst rounds of my life. What got me the most about it was, for the majority of the time, he would ask me as I was addressing the ball, just about to take the putter back. He did it a few times this way. Probably on purpose. I know you are allowed under the rules to ask during a match play situation, but why not have the courtesy of asking AFTER the hole was complete ... say after the ball has hit the bottom of the cup. "Hey what was that for?"
I never said anything to him in the end but asked other guys later around the bar & they said "yeah, he's known for doing that." It may be some sort of low-level gamesmanship but.

I know, I know ... block it out & just play better. But everything was wrong again that day & I had to put some blame on someone other than myself, ya know! HA!

So what would you have done? Would you have said something to him politely or just ignored it? Am I wrong and over reacting? I would think that it would be just common courtesy to settle all scores off the green or after everyone has holed out. It's not like the scores will change.

Thoughts?
 
IMO you're over reacting. It happens all the time when playing match play or any type of one on one with friends. I'm guessing he partly knew what he was doing by asking, but if it gets to you...it's working haha.
 
during the Morgan cup, there were many times during the matches this question was asked. In match play it matters, and determined whether putts were given and when there are strokes being given due to handicap really impacts how someone plays the next shot.

I have no problem with it and hope no one I play with does either, because I am going to ask them. Actually if it is someone I am playing against I hope it bothers them because then I would ask every single shot. (guy tees up his ball) what is that one for?
 
A lot of time that question gets asked mostly to determine if it is worth making you putt out in my groups. However, say my dad answers that it's to tie the whole I might add a little comment about how important of a putt it is for him. Just gamesmanship and all in fun.

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I understand asking ... but why can't it be asked AFTER the hole is complete? Or after the putt drops? "What was that for?"
 
golfinnut said:
I understand asking ... but why can't it be asked AFTER the hole is complete? Or after the putt drops? "What was that for?"
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You're missing the whole point. Usually it's done to gain information to play the next stroke, not to find out what you scored. If I'm putting for 3 and your putting for 5, the next putt becomes a lot easier knowing I have to three putt to tie. Or like mancest said, if I'm putting for bogey and you have 5ft putt for birdie, I may just say screw it and concede the hole.


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golfinnut said:
Playing the other night with a few guys, (mind you we are playing basically for a beer) but something got to me & was wondering if I just over reacted.

How many people have you played with that during a match, 2 vs 2, are constantly asking you before you hole out .... "so what's this for?" or "what are lying here?" or "You putting for a par or bogey here?" All before you actually hole out and finish the hole!?
For some reason this just annoyed the hell out of me because it happened more than once during the round. Each time it seemed as though he was doing it on purpose.
Grant it, I should have played better and blocked it out. If I was playing better and would have made the putts then maybe it wouldn't have annoyed me as much but it did. So if he was trying to get under my skin then he accomplished it. Played one of the worst rounds of my life. What got me the most about it was, for the majority of the time, he would ask me as I was addressing the ball, just about to take the putter back. He did it a few times this way. Probably on purpose. I know you are allowed under the rules to ask during a match play situation, but why not have the courtesy of asking AFTER the hole was complete ... say after the ball has hit the bottom of the cup. "Hey what was that for?"
I never said anything to him in the end but asked other guys later around the bar & they said "yeah, he's known for doing that." It may be some sort of low-level gamesmanship but.

I know, I know ... block it out & just play better. But everything was wrong again that day & I had to put some blame on someone other than myself, ya know! HA!

So what would you have done? Would you have said something to him politely or just ignored it? Am I wrong and over reacting? I would think that it would be just common courtesy to settle all scores off the green or after everyone has holed out. It's not like the scores will change.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Should have gone full four corners and slowed it way down.
 
Gamesmanship is part of the game. If someone was doing that to me I'd say with a smile, "I putt for birdie 14 times per round and I'll let you know when it's for eagle."
 
Carlos Caliente said:
You're missing the whole point. Usually it's done to gain information to play the next stroke, not to find out what you scored. If I'm putting for 3 and your putting for 5, the next putt becomes a lot easier knowing I have to three putt to tie. Or like mancest said, if I'm putting for bogey and you have 5ft putt for birdie, I may just say screw it and concede the hole.


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No I understand the point. My point was that this was done to me multiple times when I was LAST to putt out. So there was no conceding being done, everyone else was already in. He knew what my putt was for .... it was to tie the hole every time.

Grant it, I should just putt better and learn to block it out but that day nothing was working. I even backed away a few times when he did it. Nothing helped. I just had the case of the yips.

Incidentally, he never asked when he knew he was already out of the hole. So he knew what he was doing. And it worked I guess ... he got under my skin.

He still lost by the way ... 1 up!
 
It's a huge deal in match play so I don't see getting worked up about the question. If he's asking you while you're addressing the ball, that's a bit of a pecker move.


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golfinnut said:
No I understand the point. My point was that this was done to me multiple times when I was LAST to putt out. So there was no conceding being done, everyone else was already in. He knew what my putt was for .... it was to tie the hole every time.

Grant it, I should just putt better and learn to block it out but that day nothing was working. I even backed away a few times when he did it. Nothing helped. I just had the case of the yips.

Incidentally, he never asked when he knew he was already out of the hole. So he knew what he was doing. And it worked I guess ... he got under my skin.

He still lost by the way ... 1 up!
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Most time people know when they ask. And if they are doing it to **** with me, I take that as compliment that they know they have to try and play mind games to have a chance against me.

If you want to take it as the guy is a jerk or whatever, that is up to you and I will not try and talk you out of it.


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I would have answered every question he asked and kept on moving.
 
Matthew said:
It's a huge deal in match play so I don't see getting worked up about the question. If he's asking you while you're addressing the ball, that's a bit of a pecker move.


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Yes ... multiple times. Addressing it & right as I'm about to take the putter back. Done on purpose obviously. I will say something next time ... I guess I'm too nice.
 
mancest said:
Most time people know when they ask. And if they are doing it to **** with me, I take that as compliment that they know they have to try and play mind games to have a chance against me.

If you want to take it as the guy is a jerk or whatever, that is up to you and I will not try and talk you out of it.


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That was the thing ... after the first 2 holes, he knew he had no shot unless he threw out something like that.
 
You should have said something like "Hey, I'm putting, ask me after I'm done." Especially if it was irritating. Everyone is out there to have fun. If someone is intentionally making it less fun for you, they should be immediately called on it.
 
Play To Win? Or Is It Just Gamesmanship?

golfinnut said:
No I understand the point. My point was that this was done to me multiple times when I was LAST to putt out. So there was no conceding being done, everyone else was already in. He knew what my putt was for .... it was to tie the hole every time.

Grant it, I should just putt better and learn to block it out but that day nothing was working. I even backed away a few times when he did it. Nothing helped. I just had the case of the yips.

Incidentally, he never asked when he knew he was already out of the hole. So he knew what he was doing. And it worked I guess ... he got under my skin.

He still lost by the way ... 1 up!
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In that context it would annoy me. I'd have let it slide initially and if it kept hapenning make a comment along the lines of 'do you really find it that hard to count to 4/5?' and see what reaction i get. I don't like gamesmanship but I'm petty enough to return it when warranted..

As others have said though, look at it as practice and find a way to block it out. Other people can be annoying (intentional or not) and you need to manage that.

Ps congrats on beating him. Best way to solve issues like that


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Is what he did annoying? Yes.
Are you over-reacting? A little bit.

Not sure if he did it for gamesmanship reasons or just because he honestly did not care about (or count) anyones strokes but his own. I know a lot of times I try to worry only about my next shot and honestly have no idea what shot others are playing and sometimes ask others what they are putting while on the green. Just giving the other guy benefit of doubt here.

But yah, I think doing it every hole would certainly get old.
 
If he's doing it right as you are about to take the stroke, that would piss me off. If you are still lining up and trying to read the putt, that's one thing, but right as you are about to make the stroke would bother me. I would definitely say something after the first couple of times of doing it. That kind of reminds me of a guy I got paired with multiple times at my old course. He was all about playing honors on tee boxes until he didn't win a hole, then he wanted to play ready golf and would jump right in front of you.
 
Don't know who you were playing with, but that's pretty standard in our match play league. I agree that he shouldn't be asking as you're addressing the ball for sure, which is kind of a jerk move. However, if everyone else was done, he may have been asking as we concede putts over par if the hole is over to speed up play in league. I gave away a bunch of bogie and even a couple of par putts after holes were wrapped as I was in a later tee time and wanted to get to the free pitchers!

Either way it sounds like you got the better end of it after it was all said and done. Best way to deal with someone that's being annoying is to whoop em!! :D
 
Mission accomplished on their part.


Usually, when I ask that question, it's because I am contemplating conceding the putt, FWIW.
 
JonD said:
Don't know who you were playing with, but that's pretty standard in our match play league. I agree that he shouldn't be asking as you're addressing the ball for sure, which is kind of a jerk move. However, if everyone else was done, he may have been asking as we concede putts over par if the hole is over to speed up play in league. I gave away a bunch of bogie and even a couple of par putts after holes were wrapped as I was in a later tee time and wanted to get to the free pitchers!

Either way it sounds like you got the better end of it after it was all said and done. Best way to deal with someone that's being annoying is to whoop em!! :D
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I understand conceding putts, we do that all the time. But I guarantee he knew what he was doing. On purpose because I was the last to putt out when this was happening.
 
I think you may be over reacting a bit. Its part of any match. When we play a match 2 v 2 often times guys will ask because if they are already in for 4/5 and your partner is in for a 4 but you are putting for a 6 then the hole is over, but if you are putting for a 4 then they want to know what the situation is. Sometimes they will just give putts because it doesn't matter.
 
golfinnut said:
I understand conceding putts, we do that all the time. But I guarantee he knew what he was doing. On purpose because I was the last to putt out when this was happening.
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I believe it. Every once in a while someone gets like that. I agree with the chorus that it's part of gamesmanship, but it being in the league I invited you too it does rub me the wrong way that he was doing it as you were addressing the ball.
 
Sounds like a you problem honestly.
 
Some guys I play with track all four shots on every hole and can tell you where everybody stands at any time. Others i play with can barely keep track of their own strokes, and don't pay attention to what everyone else is doing...those are the guys that are constantly asking "what's that for?"

In this case the guy honestly has no idea.

Annoying but you answer and move on.
 
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