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Has Callaway 2017 become the new TaylorMade?

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T2OB

T2OB

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I post this title with mixed feelings. As a long time Callaway fan and user (and a little bit of a TM hater), I can't help but see the parallels between the two companies over the last decade, and it's leaving me a little concerned. This may not be surprising given some of the executive transfer from TM to Callaway, and at this point you'd have to say everything has been going well. Callaway has taken over as #1 in just about everything, similar to how it was all TaylorMade back in the earlier part of the decade. But I can't help but think we're in the process of seeing history repeat itself. Callaway seems to be putting out new offerings at an equal to or greater pace than TM ever did, and while for a while it seemed the inventory management is what separated them, even that seems to be changing.

I just was at my local Golf Galaxy the other day, and where there used to be 4 racks of dedicated used items....3 of those now are "clearance" racks dominated by Big Bertha Alpha's and XR's. Literally dozens of them. Am I taking too small a sample and drawing a conclusion, or am I see the beginning of a cycle we've seen before? I saw a video the other day that made it even more apparent of how many iterations of driver heads we've seen over the last 5 years, (and with very little differentiation of results (https://youtu.be/dOoyBoHPVzs)).

So I'll leave this in the form of a question. With Callaway's success skyrocketing to the level of TM of yesteryear, do you have any concern that that same success formula of regular and frequent releases will eventually lead to a similar downfall eventually?
 
The major difference then and now between the two companies are the people calling the shots. Until consumers realize that offerings and choices are a good thing and not a bad thing this will always be up for debate. I trust the people in charge at Callaway and will continue to support the brand as long as they are there
 
I think there are many people who feel that they have, and to be honest, I can't blame them one bit. For a general consumer who does not pay attention or know about things that happen with things such as inventory control, all they see is release after release. At times, I think they are releasing a bit much, and I question some of it, but they are the hot company right now and are controlling their inventory very well from what we are told.
 
ddec said:
I think there are many people who feel that they have, and to be honest, I can't blame them one bit. For a general consumer who does not pay attention or know about things that happen with things such as inventory control, all they see is release after release. At times, I think they are releasing a bit much, and I question some of it, but they are the hot company right now and are controlling their inventory very well from what we are told.
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This sums up my entire thoughts on it, no need to type anything more really.

People are vastly underestimating their inventory management design, its not the same mistakes that TM made.
 
Taking personal feelings out of this completely as I obviously have a soft spot for Callaway .

That said I think it is a bit different. What Callaway has been successful at is staggering the products and the release. To some this seems like they are always releasing new models which they are but some are at different times irons may be one time then driver a few months later etc. Some will hate that I personally love it and think it keeps their name in the news so to speak with hype building for each new product. The number of product lines is not much different than other companies. The lines also target different types of players.
I can't speak to their inventory control because honestly that us something only they know. However the current epic driver line imo has changed drivers everyone is chasing the epic currently and that is more and more apparent each month as their market share grows. If the product coming out is good which it has been in Callaways case I have no problem with as many options as possible if it is junk that is where I have an issue. I feel like TM along the way decided to just starting putting things out to put them out I don't feel like that is what Callaway is doing. I also feel TM true failures happened after the executives you speak of left.

Some people won't agree with Callaway strategy but I don't think you can argue with the results of some of their recent releases. I question some of the "traditional" companies releases just as much as Callaway if you are waiting two years to release something and your competition is advancing yearly are you falling behind or truly putting all the tech you can into each model? You can question any release cycle or product offering but one thing remains consistent in golf right now. There is an option for everyone and everyone's train of thought. If that is Callaway Awesome, Mizuno Great, TM awesome etc. No way of thinking is wrong and competition pushes other companies so even if a company you dislike is pushing the boundaries that is going to push the company you prefer even harder. Options, Competition and Availability are great things for the golf industry imo.


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ddec said:
I think there are many people who feel that they have, and to be honest, I can't blame them one bit. For a general consumer who does not pay attention or know about things that happen with things such as inventory control, all they see is release after release. At times, I think they are releasing a bit much, and I question some of it, but they are the hot company right now and are controlling their inventory very well from what we are told.
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I think (and hope) they have learned from their past when it comes to inventory control. I don't see them taking the bait of over supply and then falling.
 
I dont care what companies release what, but does it genuinely matter to a golfer if a company releases 7 iron sets all at once or 7 iron sets staggered 3 months apart over the course of 2 years?
I get why some get bent out of shape at drivers, its an pride thing, but with irons, why would anybody care as long as they like their set?
 
I don't see the downfall of TaylorMade being a reflection of releases and their frequency, I see it as a reduced quality release and FAR too much inventory to maintain and profit on. Fortunately for us, the latest and greatest from TM has far exceeded their low point (SLDR/JetSpeed) and are once again producing an effective product.

For Callaway, I say the more the better. As long as their inventory management makes sense, and the products are different, I think the story reads MUCH differently.
 
What I find fascinating about Callaway (and ties in somewhat to this discussion) is that Callaway has it's core lines and then supplements around them.

Apex is the flagship for irons, and are nearing 2 years old and as of yet it doesn't seem they will have a new iteration this year. Yes they have brought out about 7 other iron lines since then (including Pro models) but how big are those releases actually intended to be, and how much inventory will they actually create? They have what I would term as the game improvement line that is probably the best value (XR OS), Game improvement (Steelhead XR), aspiring Game improvement (Steelhead XR Pro) super game improvement (BBOS) then super premium (Epic in a new entry for them). If you put the Apex CF16 and the Apex Pro as the basis for which other lines are developed around it makes sense, but I still think there is some overlap and can be some confusion for the consumer, but not overly so.

MD3 is still going strong for wedges, yes they added PM grind (been quite a while, but think those came out before MD3) and have added a Forged model as well. They could probably do a full fledged overhaul, but it seems they are still having success so they are supplementing the line with other limited volume options to cover the entire consumer spectrum they can reach.

Drivers: In the last 18 months we have XR16, XR16 Pro, Fusion, Epic and Epic SZ right? I won't be surprised if they bring out an update to the XR line sometime this year, but is that really overkill? To me they stagger out releases and have several lines that they update, but if they are really having those 2-3 lines of a driver and updating them every 12-18 months is that going to kill the market?
 
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I think Callaway is in a little different position than TM and think the biggest thing is being a publicly trade company.
Adidas could hide TM issue in a quarterly balance statement, Callaway doesn't have that luxury.
There are investors that comb though those statements look for inventory anomalies.

Think this is a benefit to Callaway - Keeps them on the straight and narrow.
And because they have to drive sales, they need to keep releasing through out the year - Keeps them fresh in the consumers mind.
 
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I don't see the same parallels to TM as TM went wildly out of control with inventory in basically one line of clubs - RBZ and RBZ 2, and then had failures with marketing the R1 and Jet Speed. The R1 was dumped after 5-6 months, and Jet Speed did not get off the ground.

Callaway apparently has learned from the TM debacle and closely controls inventory. Also, its lineup appeals to different markets of golfers in terms of playability and price, and the product is well marketed and has performed. I look at callawaypreowned for inventory and they do not seem to have overwhelming inventory. I visited my local PGATSS to look through trade-in inventory, and the only Epic Drivers I saw in preowned were 9 degree Epics, about 4 of them.
 
Yes and no. They are smarter by staggering their releases. They have a really good marketing machine that wants and needs new products. I would also argue they they sell the "tech" a lot better. I actually think if they were to be more strict in their releases like a Titleist it would backfire big time. That is not who they are...even though I am not a callaway guy I would be bummed if they did not come out with the various offerings that they do. I love trying the new stuff out.
 
I think there are some parallels and major differences.

Major differences (to name a few):
* Inventory control has already been addressed.
* I'll call it "Technology Vision". TM hung their hat on 17*/1700 which led to extremely unforgiving drivers being produced. Callaway couldn't be much different here - jailbreak (and many other things) are about adding forgiveness.
* Did TM ever really embrace social media? Callaway sure does.

Similarities:
* Callaway has become the top dog. I sometimes think I sense a change in their corporate persona and it has corresponded with Callaway's increased market share. TM at times seemed a bit aloof; Callaway feels like they are inching that way. Maybe that's inevitable when you reach the mountain top.
* Release cycles. Yes, they both have plenty of them. The important part of this is a) if the company is producing differentiated products; and b) whether or not consumers understand those differences. TM failed on both fronts (I'm thinking of a couple of drivers). Callaway has differentiated products but I'm not sure how much consumers understand the differences.
 
ddec said:
I think there are many people who feel that they have, and to be honest, I can't blame them one bit. For a general consumer who does not pay attention or know about things that happen with things such as inventory control, all they see is release after release. At times, I think they are releasing a bit much, and I question some of it, but they are the hot company right now and are controlling their inventory very well from what we are told.
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Nailed it.
 
JB said:
I get why some get bent out of shape at drivers, its an pride thing, but with irons, why would anybody care as long as they like their set?
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I think it's because people care that their set is the latest and greatest ... even if it's not the same line, if I get the GI ClubGoLongs and then three months later, the company releases the SGI version I don't have the newest stuff and my stuff is now "outdated" and I can't get a premium on trade-in/re-sale.

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me but I think a lot of people buy clubs to be seen, more than played.
 
One of the benefits may be the availability of recent models at Callaway Pre-Owned. Mixed in with the sales they have at Pre-Owned, customers are served well with great products at an affordable price. Plus their customer service is stellar.


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deuce said:
I think it's because people care that their set is the latest and greatest ... even if it's not the same line, if I get the GI ClubGoLongs and then three months later, the company releases the SGI version I don't have the newest stuff and my stuff is now "outdated" and I can't get a premium on trade-in/re-sale.

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me but I think a lot of people buy clubs to be seen, more than played.
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Do you think people are up in arms about PXG releasing as many drivers as Callaway or close in the last 2 years?
Or how about Scotty Cameron releasing so many putters? Or Bettinardi? Or Odyssey for that matter?

I understand the idea behind the pride thing, I truly do. Im just not sure I understand why golf, more than ANY other consumer good, gets viewed this way. Nobody is upset that Apple releases a new iPhone every year are they? They are greatly in the minority and not very vocal if so.

Now the flip side to this is when a company releases Driver 123 and then 90 days later releases Driver 123 Low Spin model. That I can see people having an issue with, if they are brand loyal. Do you think Titleist fans were upset that they came out with the D4, C16, etc as higher priced (best of the bunch) options once they purchased their goods? Or Callaway fans upset that they released the limited edition Sub Zero last year from the XR 16 line? I honestly don't think fans of either brand were...I do hear each side chirping that the other is wrong, but that is nothing new, right?

I say all of this not as a defense of any brand, but general musings about consumer goods in general. As you might know, I have asked these very same questions on THP TV and THP Radio to just about every brand out there.
 
Callaway has a stong following since the the Betha line. TM had many many failures and Callaway seems to always hit their stride perfectly. Marketing and product are quality and in demand


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JB said:
Do you think people are up in arms about PXG releasing as many drivers as Callaway or close in the last 2 years?
Or how about Scotty Cameron releasing so many putters? Or Bettinardi? Or Odyssey for that matter?

I understand the idea behind the pride thing, I truly do. Im just not sure I understand why golf, more than ANY other consumer good, gets viewed this way. Nobody is upset that Apple releases a new iPhone every year are they? They are greatly in the minority and not very vocal if so.

Now the flip side to this is when a company releases Driver 123 and then 90 days later releases Driver 123 Low Spin model. That I can see people having an issue with, if they are brand loyal. Do you think Titleist fans were upset that they came out with the D4, C16, etc as higher priced (best of the bunch) options once they purchased their goods? Or Callaway fans upset that they released the limited edition Sub Zero last year from the XR 16 line? I honestly don't think fans of either brand were...I do hear each side chirping that the other is wrong, but that is nothing new, right?

I say all of this not as a defense of any brand, but general musings about consumer goods in general. As you might know, I have asked these very same questions on THP TV and THP Radio to just about every brand out there.
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How many drivers has PXG released over the last 2 years? Honestly I can tell you I don't have a clue because they are not the company that these others are. And what I mean by that is that they are not stocked on store shelves all over the country so they lack that visual presence that the Callaway, Ping, TM have. Not having that makes their releases seem different to me.
 
Simple answer for me is not at all.

Callaway's release cycle has been pretty similar for the past few years. I feel like they found a good system for inventory management a long with releasing products that fit different sections of the market and not releasing products that compete with products they just recently released.

I feel like Taylormade only focused on serving different price markets, rather than different sections of the consumer market.
 
ddec said:
How many drivers has PXG released over the last 2 years? Honestly I can tell you I don't have a clue because they are not the company that these others are. And what I mean by that is that they are not stocked on store shelves all over the country so they lack that visual presence that the Callaway, Ping, TM have. Not having that makes their releases seem different to me.
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Going strictly off memory 4-5
0811X
0811LX
0811XF
0811

Then they had the tour only Double Dong (which was available in very limited fashion and on tour)
 
I also think if you ask Callaway, they're not expecting people to buy the newest release whenever it comes out. In the latest Fitting Room podcast that was on the THP feed, Nate made mention that people get fit, then play clubs for 5-7 years. Looking in all of the bags of the guys I play with, most of us our outliers when it comes to changing equipment.
 
Unlike TM I think Callaway will stay at the top of the mountain. Their leadership and their customer service are the major reasons why they will stay on top.
And dont forget they made the greatest driver in the history of golf!!!!!!!!!!! The Epic is going to be hard for anyone to ever top!!!!!
 
JB said:
Going strictly off memory 4-5
0811X
0811LX
0811XF
0811

Then they had the tour only Double Dong (which was available in very limited fashion and on tour)
Click to expand...

Is Double Dong the real name of that?no pictures please!


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JB said:
Going strictly off memory 4-5
0811X
0811LX
0811XF
0811

Then they had the tour only Double Dong (which was available in very limited fashion and on tour)
Click to expand...


Surprised they didn't bring the Double Dong to retail. With a name like that .... Bob Parsons would be proud. "The longest, sweetest feeling double dong driver we've ever made."
 
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