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'17 TaylorMade M1 Driver vs Callaway Epic - #BagBattles - Jman

SuperStroke
T2GRN18 said:
How much of this changes with identical shafts and lofts? Probably a little but not significantly I would guess.

Spin/launch.....not two swingers need the same thing for optimal conditions.

Ball speeds are a tell all to a degree. I can smash the hill out of a ball but if my face is open or closed it just means it's going deeper into the sh!t.

I appreciate your efforts putting this together Jman
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They were indeed hit with the identical shaft, that's why I went back Day 2 with the THCE Custom in the Epic and included that data in the following section too. For the lofts, I would typically agree, however the lower lofted head had initially practically identical launch, and then with the same shaft the M1 had initially placed into it it actually had higher launch numbers at the lower loft.

On the spin/launch, that's why I discussed that in there too, this isn't about a one size fit all, that's the beauty of #BagBattles, in this case its a head to head battle for me and my needs (which I talked about in there as a lower launch player).

For the ball speeds, I disagree here in that I included the data/averages for how much the shots were offline. The Epic with the same shaft was less offline than the M1, with higher ball speeds.

Glad you enjoyed it!
 
mancest said:
Damn that was a lot of goodness in those 2 posts. Great info and I would be curious what M2 would look like compared to the Standard sub zero you have, but I think the fact that Epic won out on best hits answers some of what I would wonder.

Thanks for sharing all this!
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Hahaha, thanks dude. If I had those two heads, you bet your butt I would throw it down!
 
Okay...yeah that was a good read.

After watching you get into a groove on the range with the M1 and mash a few it's neat to see that our guess of 250-255 carry based on that tree and laser was pretty damn accurate. Epic outperforming the M1 wouldn't surprise (also wouldn't surprise me if it didn't), but outperforming at that 8-10 yard clip is big.

Lots to be learned from on course visuals but LOTS MORE to be learned from the data as we see here.

Now let's get together soon and have some fun on the monitor!
 
Great read Jman. I enjoy indepth comparisons with data to back it up.
Did you think there was that much ball speed difference before getting on gc2?
 
Great write up Jman! Love all the hard data and I can easily see why you liked the M1, you had some really solid numbers with it. Like you said, that ball speed on the Epic is hard to ignore. Just curious about the spin on the M1 mishits, did it really jump on the offcenter strike much more so than the Epic?

Just based on the best strikes I could see where someone could overlook 5 yards, the M1 was a hair straighter and if you like the look and sound/feel better that would be a factor. The 5 mph difference on heel strikes is a mountain to climb though. Really enjoyed the info and the conversation in hear so far!
 
Cam007 said:
Great read Jman. I enjoy indepth comparisons with data to back it up.
Did you think there was that much ball speed difference before getting on gc2?
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I really didn't, I mentioned it in there bur I honest to goodness expected the M1 to win out based on how I was getting on with it the past month.

In the end though, ball speed really doesn't lie!

Glad you enjoyed it!
 
This was a fun read. The speed difference on the heel miss, where I tend to live, was pretty amazing.
 
Great post Jman ! I've been wondering about the Epic for a while now. This may be my next driver!


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so-illhacker said:
Great write up Jman! Love all the hard data and I can easily see why you liked the M1, you had some really solid numbers with it. Like you said, that ball speed on the Epic is hard to ignore. Just curious about the spin on the M1 mishits, did it really jump on the offcenter strike much more so than the Epic?

Just based on the best strikes I could see where someone could overlook 5 yards, the M1 was a hair straighter and if you like the look and sound/feel better that would be a factor. The 5 mph difference on heel strikes is a mountain to climb though. Really enjoyed the info and the conversation in hear so far!
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It really didn't, but that ball speed drop was honestly a bit more than I expected, though I will say the past month I've avoided the heel miss on the M1 really well because for me that has been the miss of death in the TM drivers for a couple iterations now. I was of the same mind with the difference being negated by comfort, until the shaft change and when the Epic's dispersion with the shaft that was played in the M1 was better and with more ball speed. Just too much, for me, to overlook.

Glad you enjoyed dude!
 
Jman said:
It really didn't, but that ball speed drop was honestly a bit more than I expected, though I will say the past month I've avoided the heel miss on the M1 really well because for me that has been the miss of death in the TM drivers for a couple iterations now. I was of the same mind with the difference being negated by comfort, until the shaft change and when the Epic's dispersion with the shaft that was played in the M1 was better and with more ball speed. Just too much, for me, to overlook.

Glad you enjoyed dude!
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I know that heel miss well, I jumped on the '16 version of the M1. It was crazy long on center strikes and not bad oof the toe, but my regular miss being on the heel it just didn't work for me. If they get that heel right, look out!
 
any HMT data? I'd be curious to see those numbers.
 
aklawitter said:
any HMT data? I'd be curious to see those numbers.
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Not at this time.

That is, however, why I carry a notepad with me on the range and note where misses occurred on strikes in order to go back through and sort the data to draw out #'s on those particular misses.
 
It was a great test setup and write up Jman.


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Very cool write up and comparison James. I have compared both on a gc2 as well... both with the same shaft (fuji pro 62x.) And I also saw a little higher ball speed with the epic. But dispersion for me was much better with the m1. Launch was higher for me with the m1 as well.

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ddec said:
That's a great question, because we start to hear more and more about descent angle, but it never really gets talked about for what it means and what's in an optimal range.

Yeah that sounds right with what I've been told in the past. Of course mine comes in around 90 hehe actually I think my last session I was seeing a bunch in the 38-42 range.
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We share similar ball flights. I swear I go to places with firmer ground and I pick up 10-15 yards because I'm not having the ball barely hop out of its pitch mark.

I would be curious next time I'm on a monitor to see what my descent angle is. I know it's definitely NOT optimal, even for FL. But, I do enjoy knowing what I can and can't carry on good strikes since it's easy to find where my ball landed.
 
Love that everyone is enjoying this, I just also hope that everyone knows there's no agenda with these, it's all about what the person having the battle sees, and in my case what the numbers say. Numbers don't lie!
 
Love the hard #s JMan. Great thread & write up. My initial question about angle of descent was already answered in the thread so I guess the only unanswered question is why your spin is so high (I kid).

Thx for all the hard work

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I really like the criteria that was used for this Bag Battle...


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Love this write up! I'm a high loft guy too (M1 '16 head 10.5 turned up 2*) so it was interesting to see how things shook out. The Epic is an impressive piece of technology for sure but I can't get past the look and sound/feel. I don't see any other driver pushing out my M1 for a while.
 
Great test and write-up as always. Looking forward to seeing more bag battles from people.

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Having played with you a few times and most recently last weekend, I've never seen you hit the driver as well as you did with the M1. You are mortal and hit some turds, but overall that driver was on autopilot.

Seeing how the Epic shined and beat out the M1 was surprising. Not be use I think the Epic isn't living up to the hype, but because what I saw in person I didn't think you could improve.

write ups like this get me excited and make me want to dig into my numbers more. Thanks for the information.
 
mikeg_74 said:
Having played with you a few times and most recently last weekend, I've never seen you hit the driver as well as you did with the M1. You are mortal and hit some turds, but overall that driver was on autopilot.

Seeing how the Epic shined and beat out the M1 was surprising. Not be use I think the Epic isn't living up to the hype, but because what I saw in person I didn't think you could improve.

write ups like this get me excited and make me want to dig into my numbers more. Thanks for the information.
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Its wild my friend. Like I told you all in DFW, and as I'd said in the M1 thread umpteen times, I was at total and complete peace with the M1/THCE combo being in my bag. Total and complete.

In fact, as Dean can attest to, the idea of this being my firs #BagBattles entry really messed with my head a lot because I'd moved on mentally and accepted what was working, and naturally feared some possibly reading into it all too much as some do. In the end though, its about the numbers and data, and thanks to the access of the Foresight GC2 those came back crystal clear.

Its like I said in the OP's though, it doesn't mean I'll stop tinkering with the M1, hell, I'm going to keep it to hopefully compare to other drivers/releases down the road. But the ball speed that was on the table, for me, is too much to ignore.
 
Wow!! James that was pretty special, thank you for sharing that.
 
I'll be curious to see how the on course performance matches up with the launch monitor results.
 
GolfFest said:
I'll be curious to see how the on course performance matches up with the launch monitor results.
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It has. I gamed the Epic the last two days in the final setup (THCE Custom shaft) and the distances and flight match up.
 
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