JRod
Well-known member
Sig 226 here in .40 s&w
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Shooting at a military recruitment center in Chattanooga
jacob1
Needs more cow bell
I'm not a Trump fan but maybe we need a guy like him; some balls and someone that don't care if he hurts your feelings to run things for awhile. Being a nation run by pansie azzes is starting to get old.
Johnny mojo
Mojovated!
I keep hoping for an awakening, but I'm losing hope some days......
Yes I own.
I taught it my last three years in.. FLETC, Dept. of Treasury, DOE, Quantico. All great schools and great people. We have skilled citizens and law enforcement / military. We just need a government with the will.
JM
Yes I own.
I taught it my last three years in.. FLETC, Dept. of Treasury, DOE, Quantico. All great schools and great people. We have skilled citizens and law enforcement / military. We just need a government with the will.
JM
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Yeah. We could easily send this in the wrong direction, but I have to answer. With the advancements that they've made in 9mm ammunition as of late, I'll take the capacity and velocity. Cavitation in many 9mm rounds now is as good as a .40
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Wake
Active member
With this logic. 45 is the only answer.
I would carry what I'm comfortable carrying, handling and shooting.
I have a glock 26 I'm getting ready to trade for something in a smaller caliber. It's uncomfortable to carry for my slim frame and frankly I'm a pretty crumby shot with it. Full frame. 40 is great but in a compact I'm thinking 9 or even. 380
I'm not trying to be insulting. But roaches, termites and insects are not the same as religious fundamentalist terrorists.
Honest question, did you have these same feelings when a young man shot and killed 9 people because of their skin color? That was an act of terrorism just like this was.
My argument wasn't against killing Isis. It was against the idea that killing Isis would make Islamic terrorists go away.
emart2173
#journey2017
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Glock 23 for carry and a sig 229 9mm. To bad I live in a May issue state that doesn't issue.
9mm's stopping power is only an issue when shooting ball ammo. Modern day defense rounds make the idea of "stopping power" virtually moot. So long as we're not shooting target rounds, I'll take magazine capacity and faster target reacquisition of 9mm over "stopping power" of a heavier round.
http://concealednation.org/2014/10/...d-have-tons-of-science-behind-their-decision/
parsaver
Member
9MM is a NATO round so you can find them all around the world. They are also high velocity. If you have a 40 cal carry a case of ammo with you. It's not the size of the bullet, it's where you put it that counts. ;-) I have 2 CCW permits from two different states. I get more coverage that way.
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This is why basic issue military 9mm suck. FMJ rounds are garbage....
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True, which is why I collect FMJ for shooting plates, and I keep 3 mags worth of hydrashock for when I'm carrying...which despite its profound ease out here is the south west, I rarely do.
^dub^
Whole In Won
The bully comparison is good. I remember from school, if you punched a bully back hard enough, he left you alone. Our leadership doesn't have the courage to do what's right and punch the fight out of this bully.
OK, so I'm going to have a long response to this, please bear with me. It's pretty much personal view, based on my personal experiences, along with things I've read, and people I've spoken to. I'll probably digress several times. I think when people say it's a matter of going in and giving the opponent a good whipping and he'll leave us alone, it kind of overshadows some of the headaches that involve trying to beat an ideology...it also fails to take the same long look at history that our opponents do, I believe.
Much as I would love to fix this with some good old fashioned strategic bombing, the idea that that would fix or defeat the ideology just doesn't hold water. Further, wiping the slate clean doesn't suddenly create a Middle East that wants to join Western Democracy, by and large. Think about the #ArabSpring from a few years ago...with all that's shaken out, what nation that went through a change in leadership actually came out the other end more friendly to the West? Which one ended up desiring a secular democracy? Heck, the West helped Libyan rebels cast off Qaddafi, and what happened? Islamist fundamentalist/extremists still ended up in control. Obviously this is not a problem we can fix with a knuckle sandwich right to the kisser.
The question is, is there another tack? Are we doomed to a land war in Asia (the classic blunder, worse than going against a Sicilian when death is on the line)? And how should that affect the United States most of us live in? Are we really ready to deal with returning America to the days of the Old West, where everyone is armed and we call it a genteel and civilized society? Should we break the bond of trust we have between the military and the citizenry, where we wear a uniform that says US Army, carry a gun to the supermarket, and pinky promise we're not creating a military/police state? Is that what a "free" society looks like, in the name of safety?
Like I said earlier, none of these philosophical questions are any comfort to the families of those slain Marines in Chattanooga. They swore the same oath a lot of us did, to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. My question is whether it's worth it to treat all citizens as enemies, because one of them might be. I'm reminded of something Robert Heinlein said, "The noblest fate a man can endure is to place his mortal body between his beloved home and war's desolation." The day I'm told I ought to carry a gun around my fellow citizens in the name of my own safety is the day I quit the Army, precisely because carrying a gun around citizens of a belligerent nation is exactly my job. I refuse to visit that reality of war to my homeland.
I don't know the answers to how to fix the ideology that we grapple with, but it seems like an ideology we've been fighting since about the 7th or 8th century, so I don't think there's an easy fix. But I abhor the idea that making our society less free is the path to victory, and would seek any alternative.
^dub^
Whole In Won
I don't disagree, in today's world it's not a realistic solution, I just like the thought.
Ole Gray
Mayor of the Woodshed
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I have a couple of friends that I golf with that are on the police department . The majority of the officers carry 9mm.
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emart2173
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Like most religions, groups, political parties there are the extremists and those more on the moderate/conservative side. It's going to take the help of the Muslims who aren't radicalized or extremist to defeat this extremist faction of Islam. As long as the "peaceful" Muslims remain quiet and don't stand up then the ideology will never die. We hear that there is no such thing as a peaceful Muslim and that their faith teaches war...I personally have not studied the religion and what their true beliefs are but I want to believe that there is a group that doesn't support the violence and actions we are seeing.
It's a very large portion of that religion that is peaceful. You're hearing only the loudest minority, the group that is the most sensational.
It would be like a foreigner saying that all Baptists believe that dead soldiers are God's punishment for homosexuality. It isn't true, but that if that is all that's being reported, it's all they know.
Edit: here ya go. This was an underreported story. http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/01/world/isis-king-abdullah-jordan/
Wake
Active member
While I don't disagree with your larger point. There is a large portion that does support violence. Much different than the Baptist comparison of just one church.
While I agree that the Middle East ideology/clan wars have been going on well before the USA was even a country, it still doesn't negate the fact that we are in their crosshairs.
The "Arab Spring" was more of a by-product of us letting Mubarek hang out to dry and let the people of Egypt control their democratic fate. We all knew what a POS Mubarek was, but he was out POS and he kept the region fairly peaceful. We knew the Muslim Brotherhood would jump right into control and yet let it happen.
Lybia is/was the same way. Gaddafi was a shell of his former self and in control benefited the region and our interests. We controlled him.
I say all of this only because I agree that on some levels we can't fight every "up start radical Muslim group", but we can send a message that we are not to be messed with. We beat a few of them down and dismantle their operations where anyone else will think twice about attacking is domestically or on foreign soil.
The fact that these groups are brazen enough to attack us proves this administration has left us as vulnerable as we have ever been. What I hate the most is that We've exposed Israel in the region, basically armed our most hated enemy with nuclear capabilities, allowed other countries to begin selling them military assets and ensured at some point WWIII will break out in the region.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but sitting back and doing nothing isn't an option because it's the reason we are in the position we are in.
The "Arab Spring" was more of a by-product of us letting Mubarek hang out to dry and let the people of Egypt control their democratic fate. We all knew what a POS Mubarek was, but he was out POS and he kept the region fairly peaceful. We knew the Muslim Brotherhood would jump right into control and yet let it happen.
Lybia is/was the same way. Gaddafi was a shell of his former self and in control benefited the region and our interests. We controlled him.
I say all of this only because I agree that on some levels we can't fight every "up start radical Muslim group", but we can send a message that we are not to be messed with. We beat a few of them down and dismantle their operations where anyone else will think twice about attacking is domestically or on foreign soil.
The fact that these groups are brazen enough to attack us proves this administration has left us as vulnerable as we have ever been. What I hate the most is that We've exposed Israel in the region, basically armed our most hated enemy with nuclear capabilities, allowed other countries to begin selling them military assets and ensured at some point WWIII will break out in the region.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but sitting back and doing nothing isn't an option because it's the reason we are in the position we are in.
- Admin
- #96
And while that is true, it would be like saying that because a country is small, and they decide to kill dozens of Americans, that because they are small, we should say "ehh, no big deal, let's talk it out". In this instance, the religion is the minority of the issue, despite the core belief. They are killing our people both on their land and ours now.
Just because it does not erradicate all war in the future, does not mean that it should be allowed to continue. The fundamental rule of that is so flawed. It would be like saying after 9/11, we should have just talked it out. Its flawed logic because with that logic comes growth of people that are viewing their sole "fight" be the death of this great country.
Religious wars have been going on since man began. Its not going to stop. Just as crime does not stop and murders do not stop by eliminating those that are currently committing them. It does not mean we allow it to keep going. If a serial killer has one goal, which is to kill a group of people, lets say from Appleton, WI (small white town), we do one thing and one thing only...ELIMINATE HIS CHANCE OF FURTHER ENDANGERING OUR CITIZENS.
- Admin
- #97
This sums a lot of it up for me. And it has nothing to do with left or right. It is the actual choices being made. One after the other we have watched this go down and now the one country that we have had as our biggest ally, is getting close to that point as well.
I'm on board with everything you're saying here. I was just expanding on the Muslim faith. That by in large, the faith is peaceful. But we only hear about the radicalized minority. There has been outcry from leaders in the Muslim world. That was my point.
A sidebar to my point is that we rely on the corporate news machines in this country for our information. By in large, those entities suck at their jobs.
JRod
Well-known member
All handgun rounds are terrible.
If you're going to carry, carry the biggest caliber you're capable of shooting accurately and comfortably. Train, train and train some more. Tissue damage is what stops threats. Most people can't hit the T, so you want to make as big a hole as possible creating a wound cavity affecting the largest area, to allow for more rapid blood loss.
That being said, a .22 is better than a sharpened stick.
If you're going to carry, carry the biggest caliber you're capable of shooting accurately and comfortably. Train, train and train some more. Tissue damage is what stops threats. Most people can't hit the T, so you want to make as big a hole as possible creating a wound cavity affecting the largest area, to allow for more rapid blood loss.
That being said, a .22 is better than a sharpened stick.