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Soft - Why It Matters?

SuperStroke
TC said:
I can only relate to "soft" when it comes to my putters.

I also have noticed that my milled putters, even if they are the same weight as my insert putters, feel heavier in the head. I seem to focus more on that head weight and less on the stroke with those putters, thus resulting in a poorly executed result. I tend to equate results to "liking" something. So for me, I have better results with something that I perceive as softer, thus making softer matter to me. In the form of a putter anyway.
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I agree with this. I feel I could give a reason why an insert putter would feel softer than bare metal. Using the same ball, of course.

I've also used insert putters which felt 'harder' than non-inserts, but I put this down to the weighting. The insert putter in this instance was light, and I had a tendency to swing it a little more aggressively - making it feel a little more harsh to me (more mishits perhaps).
 
Softness for me relates to feel because a harder (stainless) iron doesnt seem to give as much feedback as does a softer, carbon steel iron.
In the case of putters, he is right that insert putters are softer but for me, they are so soft to the point where they mute the feel. Soft is good but there is a point where you can be too soft to where it absorbs too much of the vibration at impact and you get no feel. Ive never been able to putt well with an elasomer insert putter for this reason.
Thats why you need just the right harmonics for a club to feel right. Too hard (stainless irons) or too soft (elasomer insert putters) and it just doesnt work.
 
I rarely feel the "softness" of any club. But when I do its an amazing shot, be it driver, iron and rarely putter. Last weekend I hit 2 drives and around 10 or so iron shots that felt like I hit a soft stick of butter. The ball just went and everytime I have felt this it was a amazing shot. To me the softness is a perfect ball strike that I can not do everytime.
 
The feeling of impact relates to the accuracy of contact,the sound and the vibrations that are felt through the shaft.Indeed the materials used in making irons,for example Mizuno MP59 versus Ping S56,carbon steel and 17.4 stainless,clearly differ in hardness.To me there was a noticeable difference in hitting both but I couldn`t say it was a feeling of softness and in fact I preferred the Pings.For me and in my experience the flushness of impact,the sweet feeling of a good strike,is not related to the the softness of the material used in the making of an iron.
With putters I can`t tell the difference in the relative softness of different steel putters be it 303,304,17.4 or carbon steel,I can however hear an audible difference with some different metals and designs.With some insert putters there is a very noticeable feeling of softness at impact.
 
To me, for full iron shots, "softness" is simply the sound and lack of unpleasant feedback in the hands at impact. Nothing more really. I don't think it matters what the material of the clubhead is or how "soft" the metal is as I don't think a soft metal is reacting signficantly different to the ball impact than a harder metal at the speeds a human can swing. So to reiterate, softness with an iron can be equated to a pleasing sound and lack of feedback in the hands at impact. I think the reason so many golfers attribute buttery softness to forged blade irons is that the feedback on mis-hits is so harsh that by comparison well struck shots feel amazing, but probably no different than a well struck shot with an SGI club in my opinion (sound aside).

For putters, I believe softness is mostly attributable to the sound the ball makes coming off the putter face. I like a muted sound thus I use insert putters. I think, but cannot confirm scientifically, that the cover material of a ball can effect this sound off the putter leading to a more or less "soft" sound at impact.
 
I don't necessarily look for softness. What I want from feel is feedback as to where on the face I hit the ball. This can be firm, soft, audible, whatever. When I take a golf shot I'm not in it for tactile pleasure, I want a good result. If the club I just hit gives me instant feedback as to where I made contact that's good in my book.
 
I don't think I've ever felt a "soft" shot except maybe with my SeeMore putter on lag putts. Such an excellent insert there. On any other club though, I don't think so. I'm not exactly sure what soft means in terms of full shots because of that.
 
So, does soft matter? For me, especially with irons, not so much. I like knowing when I've caught one flush.

I think it does matter for me with a putter, but like I said, I don't know if it's an actual softness or just my perception of results.
 
TC said:
So, does soft matter? For me, especially with irons, not so much. I like knowing when I've caught one flush.

I think it does matter for me with a putter, but like I said, I don't know if it's an actual softness or just my perception of results.
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To me - in irons it really doesn't. Head shape and weighting/balance are the aesthetic things I think of first.

As for putters, I prefer a little click, but I don't feel like it much effect on my results.
 
I don't need anything to be soft really. But it's when things get harsh that I start disliking them.

Putters, I don't like soft. I don't like feeling like the ball is staying on the clubface longer than necessary.
 
For me it is a feel thing. I have 80% hearing loss in my left ear and 30% loss in my right ear. When I wear my hearing aid in my left ear, I DO hear a 'good' click. I don't wear my hearing aid a lot on the course. But on off center shots, I not only don't hear that good click, it twists my club head enough that it doesn't 'feel' good or like butter. I have a couple of muscle back irons from ages ago. When hit on the sweet spot, it's the 'like butter' feel. I have the same feeling when I hit my cast TA 845s on the sweet spot. When I hit the R9s, I immediately loved the feel. I bought my 2.0 because of a great price.

Putting, I do like the click. It's very much more muted than an iron shot. I don't 'feel' the putter like I do the irons. However, I will dismiss a putter if it doesn't 'feel' right on putts. My putter is around 20 years old, and I still love it. I do like the 2 and 3 ball putters. And I just might try a long putter this year.

With regard to pianos, I have a couple of friends who are concert pianists. Not only are they extremely sensitive to sound produced (Steinway vs. Baldwin etc.), they will try out several pianos and eliminate them based on touch also.
 
Pretty interesting perspective canio. I have always equated feel to what I was experiences audibly.
 
Canio said:
With regard to pianos, I have a couple of friends who are concert pianists. Not only are they extremely sensitive to sound produced (Steinway vs. Baldwin etc.), they will try out several pianos and eliminate them based on touch also.
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I'll second this. I played piano for 6 years and the amount of effort needed to produce volume was really important. It's not cool when your forearms are getting tense and tired halfway through a song because you're having to hammer the note to get a forte sound. My teacher's Yamaha baby grand had a beautiful, rich bass sound that I loved. My old church's brand new Steinway that they ranted and raved about was just awful to play.
 
TC said:
Pretty interesting perspective canio. I have always equated feel to what I was experiences audibly.
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While reading this thread, I couldn't help but go in yet another tangent. I wonder if blind golfers go more by feel or by sound? Probably a very stupid question, but my mind does float to unusual places now and then.
 
Good Discussion,

My thoughts are that we as golfers would like to have a pure swing. How many times have you hit a shot with a driver or iron and pure it and think to yourself "I didn't even really feel the ball come of the face of the club!" That wasn't by any means a "soft" shot when comparing it to a putting stroke but the thought process is sort of the same. Maybe it isn't so much about being soft as it is to keeping our hands "quiet" through the putting stroke or even the swing if you have quick hands because we know you can't produce a "soft" stroke with quick hands. Maybe we associate the sound of a ball being hit or stroked to a feeling. I know when the Nike Sumo came out. I couldn't get used to the thud sound and decided it wasn't for me. Pretty much everyone has experienced a pure shot on the range or course. Pretty much whatever club one uses has a distinct sound when hit in the sweet spot compared to a slight miss. I think when we hit a great shot we also associate it to a certain sound which leads me back to the point in your conversation where it was talked about that it someone really wanted a buttery smooth soft sound they could easily use a insert but it probably might not have the sound they like so they may prefer to go with a milled face putter. In a nutshell, I think most golfers but not all associate feel with sound no matter what club we are using out of the bag.

Hope that makes some sense.
 
If you have a harder metal iron and a softer metal iron of exactly the same shape, weight, loft, center of gravity with the same shafts, grips, swing weight and MOI hitting the same ball and the same swing speed and swing path that is hit on the exact same place of the face of both clubs, I believe that the shots will feel identical regardless of what metal the club head is made of.

Let’s not forget that the club and ball interaction lasts on average ½ a millisecond with 1400lbs (635 kilogram) of force, hitting something that weighs only 1.620 ounces (46 grams).
(1000 milliseconds = 1 second just for a little perspective).

The softness IMO has more to do with the weight behind the ball at impact. In part, the more weight behind object A, hitting object B, will give the impression that it’s softer. This would be more to do with the fact that you have (a) a club which is much heavier, striking (b) a ball that is lighter in comparison. The other part has to do with club manufacturing and design. Some clubs will have more weight behind the sweet spot than others. This is probably why people talk about forged clubs having a softer and more pure feel. If you cast a club the same (first paragraph) as a forged club the difference would be negligible.

A golf club with more weight directly behind the ball, the more the impact force will be absorbed.

Feel is very subjective. Lots of golfers with a range of ability will purchase clubs based on feel. Keep in mind that you only “feel” the impact of the shot well after the ball is on its way.

That just MY $0.02
 
Wow, a lot of really interesting viewpoints here. Great thread!

As I am a mediocre ball striker, I always assumed when it had less vibration and I hit the sweetspot, it felt "soft" or good. This feedback usually lets me know if I hit it decent (and sadly it almost always matches up with the ballflight...)

I'm not sure how turf interaction would effect the "feel" or vibration but since I usually pick at the ball (usually no divots) I would think it very little for me.

For putters, I think its more or less the same:

I love putting and have tried numerous putters (milled, insert etc..) and when I hit the sweetspot on the putter I can hear the different impact sound (even with some inserts, not all though) as well as see how smoothly the ball rolls. I think the sound impacts my thinking of how "soft" it is.

It really didn't matter for me besides personally preference as I tend to find the milled putters a little more sensitive (faster ball speed) compared with inserts as well as more "tingy" sound which I don't care for.
 
i never try to think of soft or hard when it comes to clubs but i do think some clubs just feel better than others. when i think soft i think short in distance. my current putter has an insert and i love the feel of it but i still break out the ping 1-a on occasion that one is a beauty.
 
This is a great discussion guys. Only on THP would you get this sort of discussion played out in a civilized manner, and it totally makes you think.
 
the_paulo said:
This is a great discussion guys. Only on THP would you get this sort of discussion played out in a civilized manner, and it totally makes you think.
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That's why I love THP!

I had a driver shot yesterday, hole 5. Routine shot. Same driver, same ball, and same tee I always have. It carried around 245 and ended up 265. This is so much farther than I usually hit. And I didn't even feel the ball go off the club. Amazing.
 
Every time I see this thread I see "size" lol

Soft. I don't think it really matters that much. Results matter.
 
I dont think it is so much "soft and hard", for me I would describe it as "firm or harsh". I know when I hit that perfect wedge shot, all I hear is the "swish" of the grass and that "firm" response from the club that say's "you just hit a fine shot sir" before your head gets around to the ball in the air. I personally like the firm feeling that I get from the club. I have never experienced a "soft" hit from a long iron, but firm and responsive yes.
 
I think feel relates to the entire sensation a club transmits to your hands..I includes not just the sensation trasmitted by the club head but the shaft and th grip as well...I also don't believe the club is traveling too fast for you to perceive the became quite simply your brain/nervous system works a lot faster!...on shorter/scring clubs this becomes more important (as does everything you do) simply because you need to be a lot more accurate...this requires you to understand and control what your body/hands and the club are dong a lot more (while off the tee...mentally at least you believe you can grip it and rip it). What is or isn't soft is in my view a function of how easily you feel the ball comes off the face of the club...
 
This is a hard one indeed, almost like trying to describe a color to someone who was born blind. I have always sought the soft feel in my irons and for me that soft feel translates to the feeling of nothingness when I make contact with the ball. Hardly unique there as many others describe it this way as well. Mizuno has done so much work with sound harmonics to make their irons 'feel' even softer and I wondered if there was something to this. I tried playing a round with my ipod playing where I could not hear the sound of impact. I didn't really notice much, if any difference. On a side note, I have always played Mizuno for that pured it feeling but have given them up as i can not find any that work consistent for my swing.

I wish i knew the answer to changing the feel through use of sound or other means because I would absolutely love to play the Ping S56 irons but no matter what shaft I try in them they feel very, very hard to me.

I may have to try the headphones or earplugs and test them again to see how much is sound related.
 
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