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2015 Solheim Cup

staticline said:
In this situation, Hull was not walking to the next tee, anyway. She says she was walking over to SP to discuss conceding the putt. If Lee took that as a concession, along with someone in the crown yelling "It's good", again that is on Lee. The Ref and the Captains should have handled that situation better. SP/Hull are trying to win a match for the continent. Sometime wins happen because the opponent makes a mental lapse. Lee did that in this case. Why is SP getting raked over the coals because Lee couldn't mentally handle the situation?

Has there been any explanation from Hull on why she crying? I didn't hear that in the EUR team presser?
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Nobody is arguing the penalty wasn't correct or that Lee wasn't deserving of the penalty.

They're arguing that SP likely took advantage of Lee's mistake to call a penalty. When questioned by the referee she could have just said, "No, that's good, let's go to 18." Instead, she emphatically declared the putt was not given as if they were standing there waiting for Lee to putt and she picked it up anyhow.

Honestly, I think if SP hadn't been so emphatic, it wouldn't have been as big a deal.
 
staticline said:
I would bet in several RC events, the opponents have walked off the green towards the next tee box. It's called 'gamesmanship'. Just because your opponent walks off, does not mean a putt is conceded. The referee has to stay until the hole is completed. Lee has a brainfart. The ref appears to have had a brainfart. The Captains didn't control the situation.
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It's strange to me that, in a competition where there is clearly need for interaction between both teams, that one team could walk off and literally be standing on the next tee box while the other wraps up. It'd seem to me that in such instances, walking off would constitute an automatic concession of the remaining putts. I can see how the other side could argue the opposite, but that doesn't seem to me like how golf is conducted. You don't putt out on 18 and immediately go to the clubhouse while the people who you were playing with wrap up, do you? So why would that be acceptable behavior on any other hole?

I can tell you one thing for certain ... Lee will never make that mistake again.
 
JB said:
This posted by a Euro website, doesnt answer your question, but its a bit different than just walking over to Suzann.

By the side of the green, Hull could clearly be seen walking towards the next tee in a gesture that golfers the world over will recognize as the tacit concession of a tiny putt. Lee duly scooped her ball up, only to be met by Pettersen’s fiery insistence that no such concession had been made. ‘Europe one up,’ declared the referee, who had no choice but to apply the dictum: rules are rules.
Cue pandemonium. Down the 18th hole the European coterie of captains and assistant captains debated what had happened. Surely one of them could see it drove a coach and horses through the idea that the spirit of the game is a vital part of the integrity of these matches?
Under the rules they had the opportunity to offer a concession of the final hole and make things right. It cried out for strong leadership – or just common sporting decency, for that matter – but sadly none was forthcoming from the captain, Carin Koch.
It says everything about the grotesqueness of it all that Hull had taken her record to four wins out of four – and yet still ended the match in floods of tears. Her discomfort at what had transpired was obvious.
In the Sky studio, former Europe Solheim Cup captain Mickey Walker and Davies did an eloquent job in speaking up for the silent, appalled majority. ‘Europe simply can’t feel good winning like this,’ said Wright, as Europe took a four point lead. ‘A terrible injustice has happened and it’s not right.’
As for the Americans, they huddled in the middle of the 18th fairway and bellowed an impromptu chant:’ Class! Style! Go USA!’ Inkster spoke passionately in a television interview for the golf channel.
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rallo said:
I'm not here to argue that Lee made a mental mistake, but from the reports, it sounded like everyone involved was ready to concede... AS and Hull appeared to be on that side... heck, pettersen probably was on it, but saw an opportunity to sneak a point. Legal yes... shady probably. She won the point fair and square... I'm not denying it, but she lost in the court of public opinion... it happens

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wadesworld said:
Nobody is arguing the penalty wasn't correct or that Lee wasn't deserving of the penalty.

They're arguing that SP likely took advantage of Lee's mistake to call a penalty. When questioned by the referee she could have just said, "No, that's good, let's go to 18." Instead, she emphatically declared the putt was not given as if they were standing there waiting for Lee to putt and she picked it up anyhow.

Honestly, I think if SP hadn't been so emphatic, it wouldn't have been as big a deal.
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Good stuff. The armchair quarterbacking is what drives me crazy. Could SP have handled it better? Yes. But, I think she is getting unfairly raked over the coals for this instance. Everyone, on both sides, will learn a lot from this situation. Hopefully, between now and the next Solheim it's a non-issue. Of course, in 2 years, the media will try to make it an issue.
 
IMO....Hull walking towards SP while there is a "stroke" to be played was indication it was given or it was just plain old poor sportsmanship because as Hull moves whether its too SP or the next Tee box, the crowds will start to move, commotion ensues, it gets noisy, etc all this around the 17th green of a match that was all square.
 
tzeboss said:
Koch also pointed out that Lincicome had shouted at Lee not to pick it up, but was “too late”.


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I dont think anybody disputed that. Nor has anybody said Lee was in the right.
Mickie and Laura hit the nail on the head during coverage, and this article (from the UK) did as well. It could have been made right, they chose not to...And in the end got a big loss as well as some pie on the face for their actions. If it was the other way, the UK fans would be screaming from the roof tops about the classless American players....

She acted poorly, had a chance to make it right and did not, and now deals with the consequences. It will be forgotten soon, and her apology was well prepared, but to pretend that there actions were "right" is laughable at every level.
 
deuce said:
It's strange to me that, in a competition where there is clearly need for interaction between both teams, that one team could walk off and literally be standing on the next tee box while the other wraps up. It'd seem to me that in such instances, walking off would constitute an automatic concession of the remaining putts. I can see how the other side could argue the opposite, but that doesn't seem to me like how golf is conducted. You don't putt out on 18 and immediately go to the clubhouse while the people who you were playing with wrap up, do you? So why would that be acceptable behavior on any other hole?

I can tell you one thing for certain ... Lee will never make that mistake again.
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The USGA and R&A would have to define "Walking Off". That adds more pages and ink to an already overfilled Decisions Book.
The match has a referee. It is the referee's job to monitor the activity. Players A/B don't need to see C/D hole out. The referee does. I'll defer to WADESWORLD on the specifics.
Stroke Play and Match Play have subtle differences in what is/isn't acceptable.
I'm not saying it's right. But, it is permissible. A/B want to start thinking about the 18th hole, not keep thinking about the 18" putt. That is C/D's problem.
Again, it's a gray area. I seen nothing wrong with beginning the "walk off". In match play, it is not as uncommon as fans think. In this particular instance, it looks bad, because Lee made a mental error, while the walk off was happening.
 
Oh wow. That video is good stuff.

She completely scoffed at the mention of sportsmanship.
 
Miller Time said:
Oh wow. That video is good stuff.

She completely scoffed at the mention of sportsmanship.
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The funny thing is, other than her being derisive about sportsmanship, her "you play by the rules and use them to your advantage if necessary" approach would be lauded by most everyone* if it were any other sport other than golf (well that and the fact that she more than likely had intended to concede the putt but backtracked once she saw it would play to her advantage). Heck, watch any NFL or college game where a team fakes a clock stoppage and instead of spiking the ball, they lob it in for a TD while the opposing team takes a mental play off.

*Except Patriots fans because we know they love their cheating team regardless. :tongue:
 
deuce said:
The funny thing is, other than her being derisive about sportsmanship, her "you play by the rules and use them to your advantage if necessary" approach would be lauded by most everyone* if it were any other sport other than golf (well that and the fact that she more than likely had intended to concede the putt but backtracked once she saw it would play to her advantage). Heck, watch any NFL or college game where a team fakes a clock stoppage and instead of spiking the ball, they lob it in for a TD while the opposing team takes a mental play off.

*Except Patriots fans because we know they love their cheating team regardless. :tongue:
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This is very true^^

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deuce said:
The funny thing is, other than her being derisive about sportsmanship, her "you play by the rules and use them to your advantage if necessary" approach would be lauded by most everyone* if it were any other sport other than golf (well that and the fact that she more than likely had intended to concede the putt but backtracked once she saw it would play to her advantage). Heck, watch any NFL or college game where a team fakes a clock stoppage and instead of spiking the ball, they lob it in for a TD while the opposing team takes a mental play off.

*Except Patriots fans because we know they love their cheating team regardless. :tongue:
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I understand what you're saying, I just don't think it's an apples to apples comparison.
 
That vid is telling. There was nothing but win in her there. Not a bad thing, mind you, but as has been mentioned, it's golf, not NASCAR, the Tour de France, or Patriots Football.

#pottymouth
 
Good on her for apologizing, regardless of why or who wrote it. In my book it reads as sincere so we're "good / good" (see what I did there?)

Who was it that refused to concede the putt to Tiger even after the Ryder Cup was won by the Europeans? That was un-sporting and not worthy of the event but didn't affect the outcome. This one was unsporting and affected the outcome. The outrage is warranted.

And I continue to say that Lee was in the wrong, too. I've actually had something like this happen to me in my very limited match play experience and I instinctively knew to ask the other party what was going on, if him leaving meant he was conceding. So Lee screwed up. But her's was an error of inexperience, not trying to gain an advantage as SP appeared to be doing.
 
rallo said:
Here is my last bit of arm chair quarterbacking.

At the end of this video you can hear hull and her caddie talking to pettersen.

Hull "it's just... sportsmanship"

Pettersen 'sportsmanship???.... we win with putts!"

Pretty much all you need to know... when winning is THE only thing

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/vi...-players-both-sides-tears-pettersen-lee-video

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If that clip doesn't help clear it up for folks, I don't know what will.
 
Glad I didn't play some of you in here in the past Morgan Cups with some of these thoughts. :D
 
its a shame we cant see Pettersens position during the clip because it seems to me she is watching Lee, cos as soon as Lee scoops the ball you can hear a very distinct "HEY"

That wasn't conceded by Pettersen and she certainly wasn't on the next tee. Lee made a mistake unless Hull conceded which i dont think she did. This is a VERY competitive competition and in the heat of the moment I completely understand Pettersens position. Lee broke a rule, why should she be exonerated? In an amateur game we know that would be a gentle ribbing and a concession after the fact but these girls want to WIN and I like it that way.
Anyhow, a good apology from Pettersen and she didnt hide behind anything other than her sheer will to win and I get that. In the end it pretty much inspired a superb fighback and helped to create a memorable tournament.

Ps nothing says classy like shouting "CLASS" ;)
 
Would it have been considered bad sportsmanship by USA had they accepted a free pass after the conference?
 
So lets end this as we are great friends outside the game but we all want to win the game you saved our butts in world war 2 so you are all great. Good night


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tzeboss said:
So lets end this as we are great friends outside the game but we all want to win the game you saved our butts in world war 2 so you are all great. Good night

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This gave me a great laugh. Well done.
 
As a Yank that was rooting for us to win, can't think SP enough for what she did. Maybe the US ladies mount that comeback without that to fire them up, but I doubt it.

Hopefully next year in the Ryder Cup Poulter or someone else does something to wake up the Americans as the men need something to wake them up.
 
After that video, I love me some SP. Hell I love me some Lee too and would give both a lap/shoulder to cry lean on. That SP is fierce, me likes.
 
tgtt said:
Would it have been considered bad sportsmanship by USA had they accepted a free pass after the conference?
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What kind of free pass?

I'll go out the limb and say BS on the apology. I'm not buying it. To me she showed her "true" color's in the heat of the moment. That is when we are all tested, in the moment, not a day later. We have all done things in life we are not proud of, and I do not live in a glass house, but I hate these moments that happen in our great game.

As the old saying goes, "Golf does not build character, it reveal's it".
 
And......Paul Casey loves American's...........
 
HoosierGolfer said:
What kind of free pass?

I'll go out the limb and say BS on the apology. I'm not buying it. To me she showed her "true" color's in the heat of the moment. That is when we are all tested, in the moment, not a day later. We have all done things in life we are not proud of, and I do not live in a glass house, but I hate these moments that happen in our great game.

As the old saying goes, "Golf does not build character, it reveal's it".
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Had the Euros decided to say "no biggie, we understand why you thought it was a concession so it's good."

Wouldn't the onus then shift to the USA to then uphold the rules of the game since Lee did in fact screw up?
 
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