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no head rotational swing

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ulle73

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what swing philosophy generates the least clubhead rotation through a swing? Does a superstrong grip work better for minimal clubhead rotation?

If you use a superstrong grip, what kind of stance would work best, along with what swingpath?
 
ulle73 said:
what swing philosophy genereats the least clubhead rotation through a swing? Does a superstrong grip work better for minimal clubhead rotation?

If you use a superstrong grip, what kind of stance would work best, along with what swingpath?
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I feel like a strong grip and a stiff shaft gives me better feel for my hands (wrists) breaking and controlling the head rotation. I don't do it correctly still lol. But when my grip is weak and also when I have tried softer shafts I feel like my clubhead is all over the place rotationally. I am no expert on this at all my thoughts about it may be completely wrong. Good question imo and hopefully more experienced and knowledgeable minds I am sure will offer more sound answers. I'd like to hear them myself :)
 
Isn't the head rotation a product of the arm rotation? I was always taught that the arms will naturally rotate. I'm not 100% certain with that. But if I am, why try to fight nature.
 
Limited head rotation was a Natural Golf move wasnt it?
 
blugold said:
Isn't the head rotation a product of the arm rotation? I was always taught that the arms will naturally rotate. I'm not 100% certain with that. But if I am, why try to fight nature.
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I don't know but I assumed the head rotates as we break out wrists. For example beak the wrists too late and don't we then end up with open face at impact? and/or break them too early and we have a close face at impact? I thought that made sense to me. I also thought that those who shape shots can start the ball off heading in somewhat different directional path by ever so slightly breaking the wrists a tiny tad sooner or later due to that being responsible for opening and closing the face. But I'm not dictating this as much as I am questioning it.
 
rollin said:
I don't know but I assumed the head rotates as we break out wrists. For example beak the wrists too late and don't we then end up with open face at impact? and/or break them too early and we have a close face at impact? I thought that made sense to me. I also thought that those who shape shots can start the ball off heading in somewhat different directional path by ever so slightly breaking the wrists a tiny tad sooner or later due to that being responsible for opening and closing the face. But I'm not dictating this as much as I am questioning it.
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But there are multiple "ways" to break your wrists and some of them keep the face more square to swing path while others will open and close the face to swing path as the wrists cock and uncock.

If you hold your hands together and just hinge them and flap them up/down (by up/down I mean the motion that you would generate if you put your hand flat on a table and then hinged the hand - if they were in a golf grip and you were looking at them at address, it would be right and left), that would, I believe, keep the face square through the swing. If you hold your hands together and hinge them but also roll them some, the face will open as you roll them in one direction and then close as you release them the other. The power that is released with these different breaks of the wrist is different as well.
 
JMN57 said:
But there are multiple "ways" to break your wrists and some of them keep the face more square to swing path while others will open and close the face to swing path as the wrists cock and uncock.

If you hold your hands together and just hinge them and flap them up/down (by up/down I mean the motion that you would generate if you put your hand flat on a table and then hinged the hand - if they were in a golf grip and you were looking at them at address, it would be right and left), that would, I believe, keep the face square through the swing. If you hold your hands together and hinge them but also roll them some, the face will open as you roll them in one direction and then close as you release them the other. The power that is released with these different breaks of the wrist is different as well.
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Now that you caused me to think more about the whole thing. And as I sit here going through some motions lol - I think a combo of wrist break and rolling over is all tied together. Roll over more or less and sooner vs later the head follows suit accordingly. No?
 
it has to do with both. Am a personal trainer as well, and anatomical (sorry for english ^^ ) both way leads to head rotational. So why i asked was,

because to me, it seems in theory like a closed stance, with superstrong grip, trying to swing out to in, would generate the lease clubhead rotation. But never seen anyone swing like that? Anyone tried? Or feel them same as me?
 
the less moving parts, the better. i assume you're fighting a slice with the super strong grip. the clubface will naturally open as you swing back, and you need to bring in back to square at impact. everything else is gravy. in theory, the golf swing is equal parts rotation and arms, with arms just going for the ride. if this is so, then the swing path will naturally start from the inside, then swing to the target line at impact. if there's a slice, usually the body turn outraces the arms. how we solve that open clubface at impact varies from one guy to another. for me, i need to make a more aggressive move so that my arms don't lag behind too much.

also, a lot of errors, for everyone including myself, is when there are too much extra and unnecessary motion. the head goes where it naturally does, which is wherever, for as long as it is a natural move, not extra motion.
 
If you use your shoulders to get the club to the top, you'll see minimal.head rotation.
 
Tadashi70 said:
If you use your shoulders to get the club to the top, you'll see minimal.head rotation.
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could you please explain? :) and when saying head, you mean clubhead or actual head?
 
Depending on your swing plane coming down relative to your back swing you could fight the club with an over the top swing or you can let the club do the work naturally by being below the plane.

Must golfers suffer with an over the top swing, where the shaft stands up above the back swing as you swing down, resulting in the club naturally opening as you swing down, in which case you have to fight it with a strong grip and an in to out swing path, this could allow you to manipulate the club to have minimum rotation, however, you're always at the mercy of your exact timing with your hip and arms syncing up, which when they're out if sync, you can have a two way miss. A pull hook when hands are too quick or a push slice when hands are too slow.

Because of these potential inconsistencies, I believe a neutral grip with proper shoulder and body rotation, where your take away is shoulder orientated, where the arms and wrists hinge naturally, while in the down swing making sure the shaft is below the plane of the back swing, where the club head naturally closes as you rotate through your body, all without additional hand manipulation of the club head, allowing much more consistent results.

Think Zack Johnson when you want to see a minimum club head manipulation swing.
 
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ulle73 said:
could you please explain? :) and when saying head, you mean clubhead or actual head?
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When you set up to the ball you create a triangle with your shoulders your arms and the handle of the club. The club face is square at this point in time if you have the proper grip. In order to get the club to the top with minimal club head rotation. You have to use your shoulders to move the triangle created by your arms and The Club. This will limit the amount of head rotation because you're not using your hands and/or your forearms to get the club started in your backswing. By using your shoulders and allowing your arms to naturally move in sync with your shoulders to get the club to the top of your backswing there should be minimal head rotation in that process if done correctly. If you are using this method once the club head gets passed your right knee all that is needed is to fold the right arm into a 90 degree angle as the Club continues to climb to the top of the backswing using the shoulders and arms in sync. Again we taking out the small muscles so there is minimal head rotation. All of the head rotation will take place on the down swing at impact. Because of this is done correctly the club has remained Square from address to the top of your swing back down to your right hip and into the ball. I hope that makes sense.
 
the clubhead naturally opens and closes on the backswing and downswing, the important part is for the clubface to be square, or perpendicular to the target line at impact. our head does all sorts of things, see lexi thompson or annika sorenstam. however, for me, the less movement it makes, the better the results. still, whatever it does, it does as a natural consequence to the body turn, rather than an action of its own. we humans tend to exaggerate actions, and this is when things get hard to control, like flippy wrists, overactive knees, toes or hips, or heads moving here and there, all of which are bad habits rather than the natural body turn and its release.
 
Tadashi70 said:
When you set up to the ball you create a triangle with your shoulders your arms and the handle of the club. The club face is square at this point in time if you have the proper grip. In order to get the club to the top with minimal club head rotation. You have to use your shoulders to move the triangle created by your arms and The Club. This will limit the amount of head rotation because you're not using your hands and/or your forearms to get the club started in your backswing. By using your shoulders and allowing your arms to naturally move in sync with your shoulders to get the club to the top of your backswing there should be minimal head rotation in that process if done correctly. If you are using this method once the club head gets passed your right knee all that is needed is to fold the right arm into a 90 degree angle as the Club continues to climb to the top of the backswing using the shoulders and arms in sync. Again we taking out the small muscles so there is minimal head rotation. All of the head rotation will take place on the down swing at impact. Because of this is done correctly the club has remained Square from address to the top of your swing back down to your right hip and into the ball. I hope that makes sense.
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This is perfectly described and an extension of what blu and Awkward were saying above. With a square setup and a proper turn there should be little head rotation. Furthermore, you should not be manipulating your wrists or forearms to square the head, that should be a natural occurrence with the setup Tadashi described.
 
TheHeez said:
This is perfectly described and an extension of what blu and Awkward were saying above. With a square setup and a proper turn there should be little head rotation. Furthermore, you should not be manipulating your wrists or forearms to square the head, that should be a natural occurrence with the setup Tadashi described.
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Exactly. The wrists do flex at the top of the swing to create angle/lag but that should be released with the swing and without the intent to square the club but just to increase speed/energy.
 
Tadashi70 said:
If you use your shoulders to get the club to the top, you'll see minimal.head rotation.
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I never realized this exactly till you pointed it out. When I swing with my shoulders vs using more arms I definitely hit a lot straighter more often and also (at least from what I believe I am witnessing) longer too. Its not new news to me to swing with the shoulders but just that I think based on your comment I better understand why and is something I can use to make myself more aware of it. I did exactly that today and hit wonderfully off the tee. And also worked for a number of well struck irons too
 
Tadashi70 said:
If you use your shoulders to get the club to the top, you'll see minimal.head rotation.
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how do you start the swing with only your shoulders? what swing thought do you recommend to use to do it correctly? dont you have to change your spine angle for only using the shoulders?
 
ulle73 said:
how do you start the swing with only your shoulders? what swing thought do you recommend to use to do it correctly? dont you have to change your spine angle for only using the shoulders?
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There is no particularswing to use. The shoulders simply rotate. If you're standing at address. And you have your knee flex and hip flex. You're holding the club with both hands. You created a triangle with both arms and your shoulders. If you rotate the right shoulder away while maintaining the flexing your waist and the flex in your knees. This is the beginning of your shoulder starting the swing if you're standing at address. And you had your knee flex and hip blacks. You're holding the club with both hands. You created a triangle with both arms in your shoulders. If you rotate the right shoulder away wow maintaining the flex in your waist in the flex in your knees. This is the beginning of your shoulder starting the swing and what the club gets pastor right knee the arm to start a swing of work by folding the right arm.
 
I've been trying to get away from using a very strong left hand grip with a neutral right hand (my left would be nearly perpendicular to my right). I used this grip mostly with a closed stance and would just swing my arms back and hit what is really a dead straight pull. There is no rotation of the clubhead in relation to the swing path with this approach. It's not great for the longest irons and got rough on my left thumb after years of hitting this way.
 
PetuniaSprinkle said:
I've been trying to get away from using a very strong left hand grip with a neutral right hand (my left would be nearly perpendicular to my right). I used this grip mostly with a closed stance and would just swing my arms back and hit what is really a dead straight pull. There is no rotation of the clubhead in relation to the swing path with this approach. It's not great for the longest irons and got rough on my left thumb after years of hitting this way.
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how did that swing work for you? kind of sounds like matt kuchars swing?
 
ulle73 said:
how did that swing work for you? kind of sounds like matt kuchars swing?
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Yeah, I think Kuchar's swing has some similar elements. I'm more of an arm swinger than he and my left hand grip was way stronger (the wrong three knuckles).
I hit the ball very straight with this setup. My shoulders would be aimed at the target while my feet would almost be aimed 45 degrees to the right. If I aimed my shoulders to the left a little and opened the face to the target, I could get a pretty decent fade without losing any distance. With the wedges, I'd open my stance and put the ball even further back and the ball would still go straight.
The drawbacks are that I couldn't really hit the longest clubs this way without fading them. I played with 3w, 9w, 7i-LW and putter (I think I was also fortunate that my irons were too upright). It can also be brutal on the left elbow and was really killing my left thumb. Taking up the game again, after eight or nine years of not playing, I've just wanted to do things differently, so I've been changing things a lot, which is definitely odd.
 
I started doing a one piece takeaway like Freddie describes. My shots are straighter, and ball flight is lower. Apparently, I was fanning the face open at waist level. Then trying to manipulate it square at impact. Timing has to be perfect to pull this off. (That's why I couldn't do it.)

As blugold was saying, It's is a natural reaction, and needs to be subconscious. If you try to do it, that's just something extra to think about.

Myself, I need to keep it as simple as possible.

Jack
 
PetuniaSprinkle said:
Yeah, I think Kuchar's swing has some similar elements. I'm more of an arm swinger than he and my left hand grip was way stronger (the wrong three knuckles).
I hit the ball very straight with this setup. My shoulders would be aimed at the target while my feet would almost be aimed 45 degrees to the right. If I aimed my shoulders to the left a little and opened the face to the target, I could get a pretty decent fade without losing any distance. With the wedges, I'd open my stance and put the ball even further back and the ball would still go straight.
The drawbacks are that I couldn't really hit the longest clubs this way without fading them. I played with 3w, 9w, 7i-LW and putter (I think I was also fortunate that my irons were too upright). It can also be brutal on the left elbow and was really killing my left thumb. Taking up the game again, after eight or nine years of not playing, I've just wanted to do things differently, so I've been changing things a lot, which is definitely odd.
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could you please post a video of your swing? would love to see how u do it!!
 
Jackal said:
I started doing a one piece takeaway like Freddie describes. My shots are straighter, and ball flight is lower. Apparently, I was fanning the face open at waist level. Then trying to manipulate it square at impact. Timing has to be perfect to pull this off. (That's why I couldn't do it.)

As blugold was saying, It's is a natural reaction, and needs to be subconscious. If you try to do it, that's just something extra to think about.

Myself, I need to keep it as simple as possible.

Jack
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could you as well post a video? even better if u posted two, one with your "before" swing, and one with one-piece-takeaway :)
 
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