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PGA Tour Equipment Frauds!

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JTJIII

JTJIII

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Okay, I just got back from the third round of the Barclay's here in New Jersey and I was shocked how many tour pros do NOT use equipment from the company they are sponsored by. Here are some of the things I saw:

1) Troy Matteson: He's got a big Titleist Bag and on Liberty National's 3rd tee whips off his Titleist 3 wood cover and pulls out a new Taylor Made R9 3 wood!

2) Charles Howell III: A Taylor Made R9 Driver and Taylor Made Burner 3 Wood under his Bridgestone headcovers, although he did have Bridgestone irons.

3) Brian Gay: Taylor Made R9 Driver under his Mizuno headcover.

4) Tim Petrovic: Taylor Made R9 Driver under his Callaway headcover

5) James Nitties: Big Callaway deal signed just before the US open but Titleist irons and an R9 driver peeking out of his big Callaway bag.

6) Ryan Moore: No equipment deal for this PGA tour winner so his Ping irons and Adams Speedline driver say a lot about what he really likes.

7) Webb Simpson: Hanging in at the Barclay's with his big Titleist bag....but thanks mostly to his Ping Craz-e putter.

8) Harrison Frazar: Nice Srixon bag, too bad about the Callaway x-forged irons hiding inside.

9) Daniel Chopra: Ping Bag and lifts off the headcover....noooooo! Another R9. Chopra was bombing it, by the way.

The Toronto Globe and Mail reported this week that tour pros below the top 30 in the world rankings who signed deals before the recession were getting between $1 and $2 million to carry a company's bag and play their equipment and that post recession are now getting $200,000. Still, if you're getting that kind of pay, the least you can do is play the stuff.

Personally, I saw so many non Taylor Made guys playing the R9 - that was the biggest endorsement of all!
 
There is a lot more than just that. Many players play equipment that does not match their headcover. However that is really up to the deal they have. Many players do not have the option and it is really changing as the new contracts come up.

As for guys like Howell III, Chopra, Nitties, and more, they are some of the largest equipment tinkerers on the PGA tour, so they have different equipment each and every week.
 
Jsquared said:
2) Charles Howell III: A Taylor Made R9 Driver and Taylor Made Burner 3 Wood under his Bridgestone headcovers, although he did have Bridgestone irons.

Still, if you're getting that kind of pay, the least you can do is play the stuff.
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I can't speak on the others, but I know that Charles Howell III does not have his driver/fairway/putter as part of the endorsement deal with Bridgestone. I asked them about it while at the WGC when I saw he was using the Taylormade on the 1st tee.

It all depends on the clubs covered in the deal. If it's not part of the endorsement package, you can bet they'll be carrying whatever club works best for them.

And headcovers obviously mean nothing in a staff bag. Look at the guys carrying non-golf company staff bags with matching headcovers. The headcovers are there as part of the staff bag package.
 
Jsquared said:
Okay, I just got back from the third round of the Barclay's here in New Jersey and I was shocked how many tour pros do NOT use equipment from the company they are sponsored by. Here are some of the things I saw:

1) Troy Matteson: He's got a big Titleist Bag and on Liberty National's 3rd tee whips off his Titleist 3 wood cover and pulls out a new Taylor Made R9 3 wood!

2) Charles Howell III: A Taylor Made R9 Driver and Taylor Made Burner 3 Wood under his Bridgestone headcovers, although he did have Bridgestone irons.

3) Brian Gay: Taylor Made R9 Driver under his Mizuno headcover.

4) Tim Petrovic: Taylor Made R9 Driver under his Callaway headcover

5) James Nitties: Big Callaway deal signed just before the US open but Titleist irons and an R9 driver peeking out of his big Callaway bag.

6) Ryan Moore: No equipment deal for this PGA tour winner so his Ping irons and Adams Speedline driver say a lot about what he really likes.

7) Webb Simpson: Hanging in at the Barclay's with his big Titleist bag....but thanks mostly to his Ping Craz-e putter.

8) Harrison Frazar: Nice Srixon bag, too bad about the Callaway x-forged irons hiding inside.

9) Daniel Chopra: Ping Bag and lifts off the headcover....noooooo! Another R9. Chopra was bombing it, by the way.

The Toronto Globe and Mail reported this week that tour pros below the top 30 in the world rankings who signed deals before the recession were getting between $1 and $2 million to carry a company's bag and play their equipment and that post recession are now getting $200,000. Still, if you're getting that kind of pay, the least you can do is play the stuff.

Personally, I saw so many non Taylor Made guys playing the R9 - that was the biggest endorsement of all!
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welcome to pga tour golf. what you are told and shown is not what you should believe. have you ever seen pictures that show the difference between the drivers released to the tour players and what is put on shelves in your local store? night and day my friend
 
These guys aren't foolish enough to jeopardize a sponsorship deal. Jsquared - you may need to go back to detective school and get a few more facts before calling someone a fraud.
 
Gee, I wonder how the Darrell people handle that?


-JP
 
I'm pretty sure he was just using hyperbole. They aren't jeopardizing their sponsorship contracts. The contracts are just written differently for different players. For example, a player has a 12 club deal that does not include the putter or driver (let's say Mizuno). The player then chooses to play (for free) a different brand driver (let's say TaylorMade). But the player would rather put Mizuno headcover on the TM driver because he is getting moeny from Mizuno. Goodwill.
 
Harry Longshanks said:
I'm pretty sure he was just using hyperbole. They aren't jeopardizing their sponsorship contracts. The contracts are just written differently for different players. For example, a player has a 12 club deal that does not include the putter or driver (let's say Mizuno). The player then chooses to play (for free) a different brand driver (let's say TaylorMade). But the player would rather put Mizuno headcover on the TM driver because he is getting moeny from Mizuno. Goodwill.
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Yes, but I think that Jsquared has a point when it comes to public perception.

Pros are used to endorse various products and many people (whether it makes sense or not) purchase those products because they either are a fan of a particular player or simply respect his judgment. When these folks see that their hero isn't actually using the clubs he sponsors, their image of that pro may be altered and their opinions of sponsorships in general may also be affected.

Perception is, after all, reality and if the reality of what Jsquared witnessed becomes common knowledge, it can shake the consumer's confidence and can cast a pall over what is commonly and very uniquely believed to be an honest sport - if not the THE ONLY honest sport.

Most people react to things like this on a basic level and they probably aren't going to care about whatever "deal" was made. All they know is that the equipment doesn't match the logo and I can't blame them if they feel cheated or if they want to yell, "Fraud!"


-JP
 
I didn't really look at what clubs they were playing. I was looking more at their outfits. A lot of them had rain pants on so it was difficult to determine if their outfit was a good one or not. I really liked Phil's pants and Tiger's shoes. You could see Ian Poulter had pink pants on under his rain pants - too bad we couldn't see them. Brian Gay looked good. I liked Marino's green shirt - it looked good on him, but he needs new pants. Sergio looked very nice in orange.
 
JP: I think it is already common knowledge. At least, I already knew and it didn't bother me. I don't think it was ever really a big secret. If it was, they didn't pull one over on me.
 
Smallville said:
JP: I think it is already common knowledge. At least, I already knew and it didn't bother me. I don't think it was ever really a big secret. If it was, they didn't pull one over on me.
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Maybe for you.

But you have over 7,000 posts on an internet golf forum, so it's obvious that you are very plugged in to the game. But I believe that the majority of people who play golf - which in my opinion are probably the ones who are most influenced by endorsements overall - aren't nearly as aware of such things as you are. They see things on more of a "face value" level and as such, they might be inclined to regard such things as "shady" while people such as you, me and the other members of this and other golf boards wouldn't think twice about it.

I know that such deals exist and I know why they exist, but it still bugs me that someone can tout a logo and actually use a different product. I think that's just wrong.


-JP
 
You have a point, but the same could be said about anyone who endorses a product. Take race car drivers. Do they really use all the products that they have stickers for on their car or patches on their uniforms?

EDIT: I didn't see the last line of your post. Kinda covers the same thing.
 
Smallville said:
You have a point, but the same could be said about anyone who endorses a product. Take race car drivers. Do they really use all the products that they have stickers for on their car or patches on their uniforms?

EDIT: I didn't see the last line of your post. Kinda covers the same thing.
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Look, I know it's not illegal and I know that's the way things go in their world. But on a fundamental level, I think it's deceptive and disingenuous. I think of someone like Jack Nicklaus who had virtually a lifetime commitment to MacGregor and I can't see him ever playing someone else's equipment as long as MacGregor's name was on his bag and I think that it's no coincidence that Jack is thought of as one of the most honest and ethical people who ever played the game.

Like I said, it's their world, but I myself wouldn't feel comfortable doing something like that.

To each his own, I guess.


-JP
 
JPsuff said:
Gee, I wonder how the Darrell people handle that

-JP
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Darrell does not count headcovers, but I am sure you already knew that.


JPsuff said:
Look, I know it's not illegal and I know that's the way things go in their world. But on a fundamental level, I think it's deceptive and disingenuous. I think of someone like Jack Nicklaus who had virtually a lifetime commitment to MacGregor and I can't see him ever playing someone else's equipment as long as MacGregor's name was on his bag and I think that it's no coincidence that Jack is thought of as one of the most honest and ethical people who ever played the game.

Like I said, it's their world, but I myself wouldn't feel comfortable doing something like that.

To each his own, I guess.


-JP
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So if that is the case, why would Nicklaus have his own line? Or in this case multiple lines such as Golden Bear, Nicklaus, etc...Is a fan supposed to believe the equipment he plays is better than his own equipment with his name on it? Taking money from one company and selling the public on another?

In the end this is no different than any other sport or any other promotion.
 
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JB said:
Darrell does not count headcovers, but I am sure you already knew that.
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That was a joke, JB.


JB said:
So if that is the case, why would Nicklaus have his own line? Or in this case multiple lines such as Golden Bear, Nicklaus, etc...Is a fan supposed to believe the equipment he plays is better than his own equipment with his name on it? Taking money from one company and selling the public on another?

In the end this is no different than any other sport or any other promotion.
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Apples and oranges.

When Jack was out on the course and his bag read: MacGregor, that's what was in his bag. What he or any other person does as a means of promoting their own designs or ideas on their own time and their own dime is of no consequence. I just think that if I shake someone's hand and accept money from them to play their gear, then that's the gear I should be using.

That's called integrity and honoring an agreement and I don't see anything wrong in that.


-JP
 
That is not what players do though. They negotiate and agree to play a certain number of clubs and those are the clubs they play.

If a company wants a player to play only their gear, then they do a 14 club deal. Its as simple as that.
 
JPsuff said:
I just think that if I shake someone's hand and accept money from them to play their gear, then that's the gear I should be using.

That's called integrity and honoring an agreement and I don't see anything wrong in that.


-JP
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Like JB said, that's exactly what these players are doing. They agree to play X number of clubs from Y manufacturer as part of their endorsement deal. As long as they are playing the clubs as agreed upon in their contract, I don't see how you could call their integrity into question.

Take Tiger as an example. He has an endorsement deal with Nike - but last I checked was playing a Scotty Cameron putter. Would you question him on this? It's clearly not part of his deal with Nike, as he wouldn't be playing it otherwise when Nike does actually make putters.
 
Unless you're privy to the terms of their contracts - I think saying or even assuming that anyone is committing fraud is inappropriate.
 
Osahar said:
Like JB said, that's exactly what these players are doing. They agree to play X number of clubs from Y manufacturer as part of their endorsement deal. As long as they are playing the clubs as agreed upon in their contract, I don't see how you could call their integrity into question.

Take Tiger as an example. He has an endorsement deal with Nike - but last I checked was playing a Scotty Cameron putter. Would you question him on this? It's clearly not part of his deal with Nike, as he wouldn't be playing it otherwise when Nike does actually make putters.
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In the modern golf world, even I accept the fact that equipment breaks down into three basic categories which are: Driver/woods; irons and putters. I think the general public sees it this way as well and if someone plays a set of "X" irons and uses a "Y" driver and woods along with a "Z" putter, they're not seen as violating any sacred trusts because each type of club represents a particular aspect of one's game.

What I'm objecting to is using an "X" driver while putting "Y's" headcover on it or carrying a bag with someone's name emblazoned on it (which suggests that they supply the major portion of one's equipment which generally means the irons) while using an entire set of irons from someone else's company.

I have no problem with "mixed bags" since I and virtually every other golfer in the world has one. All I'm saying is that if your logo suggests a particular manufacturer's product - like a hat that reads: R9, then you should be using an R9 driver and not a Highbore or a Nike Dymo. If you want to use the Dymo, then simply remove the "R9" hat.


-JP
 
So according to your logic, then any person that endorses any product should only use that product. That is absolutely crazy.

At&t pays Tiger for him to use their bag. If he used Verizon then I do not think anybody would have a beef. They are paying him to use the bag. Nike, TM, Bridgestone, and every other company pays a player to use a certain club or clubs and their headcovers. Its as simple as that. When Tiger takes off the Nike putter cover, nobody is trying to hide that it is a Titleist Scotty Cameron. They dont cover it up and it gets more TV time than the headcover does.

There is no fraud being done unless they change the name on the equipment to say something else.
 
JB said:
So according to your logic, then any person that endorses any product should only use that product. That is absolutely crazy.

At&t pays Tiger for him to use their bag. If he used Verizon then I do not think anybody would have a beef. They are paying him to use the bag. Nike, TM, Bridgestone, and every other company pays a player to use a certain club or clubs and their headcovers. Its as simple as that. When Tiger takes off the Nike putter cover, nobody is trying to hide that it is a Titleist Scotty Cameron. They dont cover it up and it gets more TV time than the headcover does.

There is no fraud being done unless they change the name on the equipment to say something else.
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Why do you insist upon turning everything into an argument?

Yes, I think that if someone endorses a product, they should use it. Is there something wrong with my believing that?

And I also believe that if your headcover reads: "Mizuno" and when it's removed from the club it's covering and that club reads: TaylorMade, I think there's something wrong with that as well.

Why do you have a problem with that?


-JP
 
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Nobody is turning anything into an argument. Most seem to be simply pointing out that they disagree with you because contracts read otherwise and saying something is fraud is not really something that is taken lightly in the world today.

You can have any opinion you would like about anything you want. Most have heard the saying about opinions and everybody has one.
 
JP - Endorsing a product and agreeing to use the product are two different things. I don't expect a spokesperson to use any products - you really think Bill Cosby loves Jello? It's about brand recognition and brand awareness. It's business pure and simple.
 
Is it really any different than having 10 sponsors on your shirt? Only 1 company made the shirt.
 
Craig Mac said:
Is it really any different than having 10 sponsors on your shirt? Only 1 company made the shirt.
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Good point and if Furyk is taking Exelon and is able to play golf, then it's a much better drug than even Novartis knows.
 
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