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Driver swing vs iron swing

rollin said:
Not really Freddie. I don't go out there and think as though I am swinging different with every club. My general motions and mindset are very similar with all clubs and don't really think about it much at all. Its just that we are discussing the topic and so it then imo gets a bit more precise. When analyzing (irons vs driver), I can see why/how many feel its a bit different is all really. and I find it interesting to debate and discuss it.

However, can I use extensive lessons? if I had the money and wanted to go through a long process (again). I sure would get them :)
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Here the thing, you're debating something some of the best minds in golf have agreed upon. It's like debating that water is wet. Something are just fact and debating just to debate confuses the issue.
 
kc720 said:
I was asking about intentional different swings, whether dramatically or not. It kind of all goes to the whole feel vs reality issue. I know what I feel through the swing isn't necessarily what action I am exactly putting in the swing lol.
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rollin said:
Im not saying its specific to only driver but just perhaps a bit more significant and enough so that makes it feel different.. I did mention my 5iron does feel different than my PW. Why shouldn't it? It is shorter, it is hit a tad further back, we stand at a different distance from the ball and at a different angle and produce slightly different swing planes. They are even if just a little.....different imo.
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see above that i quoted from op. the purpose of this thread is asking whether we should have a driver swing, then a every other club swing. i agree with you that every club is swung differently due almost exclusively to length. but there is nothing intentional that should be changed to hit driver correctly. the plane is different because the length of the club is different and the bend at the waist is differently. it's why, all things being equal (meaning you don't completely break down like an idiot like i have a tendency to do), a divot with a wedge is deeper than a divot with a long iron; the inclined plane with a the wedge is steeper because the club is shorter and there is more bend at the waist. that's it. you're not intentionally swinging steeper, you're not intentionally taking a chunk out of the ground. you're just set up differently.
 
c.a.eleric said:
see above that i quoted from op. the purpose of this thread is asking whether we should have a driver swing, then a every other club swing. i agree with you that every club is swung differently due almost exclusively to length. but there is nothing intentional that should be changed to hit driver correctly. the plane is different because the length of the club is different and the bend at the waist is differently. it's why, all things being equal (meaning you don't completely break down like an idiot like i have a tendency to do), a divot with a wedge is deeper than a divot with a long iron; the inclined plane with a the wedge is steeper because the club is shorter and there is more bend at the waist. that's it. you're not intentionally swinging steeper, you're not intentionally taking a chunk out of the ground. you're just set up differently.
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Why does waist bend need to be different?
 
blugold said:
Why does waist bend need to be different?
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I would think as the club is shorter you would be forced to bend more at the waist to sole the head. I suppose there is a blend between knee flex at address and spine inclination.
 
c.a.eleric said:
I would think as the club is shorter you would be forced to bend more at the waist to sole the head. I suppose there is a blend between knee flex at address and spine inclination.
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If clubs were properly fit, hypothetically, would the user need to alter set up?
 
blugold said:
If clubs were properly fit, hypothetically, would the user need to alter set up?
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I'm not sure that it's drastic, but I do think there are differences.
 
c.a.eleric said:
I'm not sure that it's drastic, but I do think there are differences.
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There's a difference between drastic and intentional. I would think that a consistent posture everytime would be the goal. But to intentionally alter posture, I would think, would be bad news.
 
blugold said:
There's a difference between drastic and intentional. I would think that a consistent posture everytime would be the goal. But to intentionally alter posture, I would think, would be bad news.
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I don't think it's intentional. I think it's a natural compensation.
 
c.a.eleric said:
I don't think it's intentional. I think it's a natural compensation.
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Well sure, but why does the club's sole have to be flat? I have never been told to keep the sole flat. Just correct posture and the change the club for impact and never set up.
 
c.a.eleric said:
I would think as the club is shorter you would be forced to bend more at the waist to sole the head. I suppose there is a blend between knee flex at address and spine inclination.
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Chris your adjusted waist bend is offset by the length of the club. The arms hang in the same position. The feet are the same width and knee flex is the same.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Chris your adjusted waist bend is offset by the length of the club. The arms hang in the same position. The feet are the same width and knee flex is the same.
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sorry Freddie my brain is jell-o these days. are you saying that the waist bend is constant throughout the bag regardless of club length, or that small waist bend adjustments are necessary as club lengths change?
 
Same swing, same posture, except ball position.
 
c.a.eleric said:
sorry Freddie my brain is jell-o these days. are you saying that the waist bend is constant throughout the bag regardless of club length, or that small waist bend adjustments are necessary as club lengths change?
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Im going to capture some images from a couple pretty good players and post them.
 

This is exactly what I was taught last year, and how I've been swinging since then. Seems different to me.

Swyped while swerving on my S6 edge
 
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I would say that my swing is the same and my setup is slightly different. I have my reverse K a little more accentuated with the longer clubs, this allows me to reach the bottom of the swing and hit up on the driver. The takeaway and shoulder rotation is the same and I feel that consistency is improved by making the same move into the ball.
 
all I can say is ever sonce the couple weeks ago I gave this a try I have yet to get my driver swing back together. Its been horrible and while that doesn't prove anything at all about this topic its just made me think about the swing and I cant get it back to normalcy since. been to the range a few times and even tried to see the pro on 2 occasions cause its been that bad but I couldn't grab him. I been just tying to think of zero and just swing but Im just not comfy and its way off. I am playing tomorrow and I am going to hit the range before hand to try to get it back with an open and empty head. If I cant Im going to have to see the instructor because I am lost. Just cant get the feel for the driver at all. Hopefully tomorrow will prove to be different :) but we'll see.
 
My iron swing is fine. Something is different with the driver swing. It's a long shafted club. It's harder to get the club face square at impact. It also isn't necessary to use the club to play the game. I'm about to give up with the club. The driver cost me wins in two tournaments last year. I can reach par 5s in three with my 4 iron + 5 iron + a wedge or at worst a 9 iron. Most par 4s are a 4 iron + a 9 iron from my tees. Why do I need to even hit a driver?

Did you know back in 1970 I didn't even use a driver or FW and shot in the 80s? I used a 1 iron off the tee. I might do that again. I see a 17 degree 3 iron in my future if my 19 degree hybrid doesn't work out. The game is about keeping the ball in play. The driver does nothing but cause frustration, cost money and cost more strokes than it saves. I'm not good enough to use the club. So why suffer when I can hit a straight dart with my 4 iron off the tee? I don't have to play from the longer tees anyway so pbbbt.
 
InTheRough said:
My iron swing is fine. Something is different with the driver swing. It's a long shafted club. It's harder to get the club face square at impact. It also isn't necessary to use the club to play the game. I'm about to give up with the club. The driver cost me wins in two tournaments last year. I can reach par 5s in three with my 4 iron + 5 iron + a wedge or at worst a 9 iron. Most par 4s are a 4 iron + a 9 iron from my tees. Why do I need to even hit a driver?

Did you know back in 1970 I didn't even use a driver or FW and shot in the 80s? I used a 1 iron off the tee. I might do that again. I see a 17 degree 3 iron in my future if my 19 degree hybrid doesn't work out. The game is about keeping the ball in play. The driver does nothing but cause frustration, cost money and cost more strokes than it saves. I'm not good enough to use the club. So why suffer when I can hit a straight dart with my 4 iron off the tee? I don't have to play from the longer tees anyway so pbbbt.
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If that's how you feel and are happy with the choice.....that's all that matters. I am always all for playing to strengths and not weaknesses when planning holes and making shot decisions.

But for me I also want to be able to hit all clubs in my bag and also feel a driver should be one of those clubs. That being said, my driver is not always terrible and comes and goes. One day cant pay me to hit a bad drive and another cant pay me to hit a good one..lol. yet other days its somewhere in the middle. But who knows? if I was never able to gain anything from using my driver would I can it? I'd say no not at this time because I would still want to keep plugging away at it. But your not alone and many people have decided to do away with driver. One of the best things about this game is that we can all do what we want and no judgment is passed. Or at least it shouldn't be. I wouldn't be comfy with that choice if my driver was always that bad. I'd probably still keep at it, but again we all do what feels best for us.
 
I spent the last couple rounds thinking about swinging my driver like I swing my 6i, it's worked out a lot better for me. I would have good days and bad but I never hit driver that often. I would always hit 3W off the tee on tight fairways or if OB or hazards came into play. The last 2 rounds I hit driver off of almost every tee, just a couple 3W's hitting to a yardage, and I've only had 2 balls that were missed badly. One was a big slice I just put a really bad swing on that went into the next fairway, the other was an over cooked draw that landed in the fairway but bounced into the woods. I was able to find it and punch out back into play. Everything else has been from second cut to second cut, it's still not perfect because neither is my iron swing but it's a lot better when my swing thought is "swing it like the 6i".
 
and during todays round I happily did get my driver swing back. It certainy was far from a better driver day but it was ok and at least tat craziness of not being able to hit it at all has disappeared. Just too bad I couldn't chip to save my life today...lol but another story
 
since my iron swing has been so terrible I'm hoping making it like my driver swing works.

rollin said:
and during todays round I happily did get my driver swing back. It certainy was far from a better driver day but it was ok and at least tat craziness of not being able to hit it at all has disappeared. Just too bad I couldn't chip to save my life today...lol but another story
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Glad you got it back a little
 
Went to the range today with the intention to work on Freddie thoughts of both swings bring the same. When I focused on swinging driver like 7i I had a good turn and weight shift and a smoother transition that resulted in a pretty straight flight with good launch and good distance
 
Drivers are weird. I was in the store swapping golf shoes today. So I tried the shoes out hitting a couple clubs. Then I wanted to try hitting driver. I still sliced the hell out of them. My coach was there, so I asked if he had time for a lesson. Nope. So I grabbed a Callaway XR in 13.5 with a Speeder A-flex. A-flex because the drivers I'd been swinging i couldn't get over 80 mph. Now this club felt perfect. I flared the first few, but I could feel the club head. Then suddenly I was hitting 210 carry with a draw tail for a 230 total which is more my normal and getting about 87 - 88 mph in my running shoes. Okay.... Then a couple with a 220 carry.

What was I doing differently. 4 knuckle grip like I used to do. Lifeline grip with my right hand. Picking up the club with a somewhat early set and coming outside the plane and up with a slight cup at the top, then down and through. I could feel where the ball was impacting the club - slightly up and slightly toe side. - 2200 RPM total spin. In the zone.

I'll be bringing my BB into the shop for a weighting tomorrow to bring it back up to D2. I think the club head might be too light at the moment.
 
I've said this repeatedly, there are exception to every rule. Some golfers have grooved their move and this just won't work. There are going to be some that if they fixed their iron swing it might work. And there will be some that it's works for.
 
Same swing. Same tempo. Different ball position makes it feel different. Once I realized this I quit trying to kill my driver and improved my results almost immediately. It only took me 43 years to realize it.
 
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