If you’ve played golf long enough, you’ve probably heard both sides of this argument.
Low handicaps hate giving strokes. Higher handicaps get tired of hearing them complain.
So who’s right?
That question serves as the foundation for this week’s episode of Splitting Fairways, the THP podcast where Ryan “Hawk” and Jeremy “Lord Tox” take on the conversations golfers are already having every day. Rather than deciding who’s right, the show explores both sides of golf’s most divisive topics.
This week, the focus shifts to one of the oldest debates in the game: the handicap system.
Along the way, the discussion explores scoring variance, sandbaggers, vanity handicaps, and why golfers on opposite ends of the handicap spectrum both seem convinced the system favors the other guy.
After listening, we want to hear from you.
Who has it tougher: the golfer giving strokes or the golfer getting them?
Podcast: Play in new window | Download




[QUOTE=”That post, post: 14195918, member: 65950″]
I’m very interested to see what your nine iron score is. As for your average and p average, you’re in the lunatic Fringe and in the minority there. Most people don’t know the yardages that they hit like you do. Your expectations are level set correctly because of the data that you collect.
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But the basis of your argument was that high caps (which I am I guess) struggle is that they don’t know their distances.
[QUOTE=”That post, post: 14195896, member: 65950″]
As for point 3, my entire contention is the One of the reasons that high caps struggle with ball striking is because they are making full swings trying to hit yardages that they’ve hit three times all season. My point is is if they slow things down and focus on a smooth swing, contact will improve. Dispersion will improve and their scores will improve.
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Having witnessed a lot of high and even higher caps, that’s just not true.
[QUOTE=”That post, post: 14195805, member: 65950″]
So are you guys saying that me is the low cap should consider dinking an 8 iron three times instead? Because I seemingly have more consistency with it.
I don’t think I buy this inconsistency argument that you guys are trying to sell. It would be an interesting challenge to any High cap out there to take the club that hit the best dink it around the course and see if they shoot better than their cap.
There’s a really annoying guy on YouTube called golf sidekick that is proven that this is possible over and over again.
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That might make an interesting challenge. 8 Iron you say? How many holes? I will try it at my local muni that is rated very lowly and is pretty short. No hurry but before the summer is over?
[QUOTE=”That post, post: 14195896, member: 65950″]
I think it’d be really fun for you to do this. Pick whatever Club that you hit best.
As for point 3, my entire contention is the One of the reasons that high caps struggle with ball striking is because they are making full swings trying to hit yardages that they’ve hit three times all season. My point is is if they slow things down and focus on a smooth swing, contact will improve. Dispersion will improve and their scores will improve.
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I agree with your last point to a certain extent. I still maintain that on hitting smaller targets like most of my muni greens that I don’t end up significantly better than driver, shorter iron close to the green, chip on. The other topic no one has addressed yet is you are HI6 and I am 13; so I if I play my usual tees and you play further back I am only getting 3ish strokes; if that. No par 3 pops, and I even miss a pop on one long par 4 (there are 4 for the course). So now who has the advantage? Maybe the HC system does work sometimes.
[QUOTE=”Inioch, post: 14195926, member: 72219″]
But the basis of your argument was that high caps (which I am I guess) struggle is that they don’t know their distances.
Having witnessed a lot of high and even higher caps, that’s just not true.
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No, the basis of my argument is that high caps struggle with ball striking because they’re over swinging.
We’re just going to have to agree to disagree I suppose and that’s okay. Makes life interesting.
[QUOTE=”cmon man, post: 14195930, member: 68593″]
That might make an interesting challenge. 8 Iron you say? How many holes? I will try it at my local muni that is rated very lowly and is pretty short. No hurry but before the summer is over?
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Yeah, whatever club that you hit best. It doesn’t have to be eight iron. Just whichever one that is.
Look I’m more than willing to be wrong on THP. It happens time and time again and I always own up to it. So if I’m wrong I’m wrong but at least it’s an interesting conversation
And you're cool with your responses and it is interesting. I will give it a try. Unfortunately I hit my wedge the best, most consistently but I will try 7 or 8.
[QUOTE=”That post, post: 14195961, member: 65950″]
No, the basis of my argument is that high caps struggle with ball striking because they’re over swinging.
We’re just going to have to agree to disagree I suppose and that’s okay. Makes life interesting.
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That clarifies the point really well, regardless of what side we all fall on.
I’d agree part of the reason for being a high cap might be over swinging, but not sold it’s a major piece. That said, fun to try it out.
Also, I guess I should actually listen to the pod now for the commute home 🤣
[QUOTE=”Scooby45, post: 14195975, member: 62865″]
That clarifies the point really well, regardless of what side we all fall on.
I’d agree part of the reason for being a high cap might be over swinging, but not sold it’s a major piece. That said, fun to try it out.
Also, I guess I should actually listen to the pod now for the commute home 🤣
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I’ll join you as I’m driving back from West Virginia now. It’ll be a fun listen.
[QUOTE=”Scooby45, post: 14195975, member: 62865″]
That clarifies the point really well, regardless of what side we all fall on.
I’d agree part of the reason for being a high cap might be over swinging, but not sold it’s a major piece. That said, fun to try it out.
Also, I guess I should actually listen to the pod now for the commute home 🤣
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I also haven’t listened to it yet, since I’ve been around family all day 😂
[QUOTE=”That post, post: 14195961, member: 65950″]
No, the basis of my argument is that high caps struggle with ball striking because they’re over swinging.
We’re just going to have to agree to disagree I suppose and that’s okay. Makes life interesting.
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I’m not at all convinced that over swinging is the reason high caps struggle with ball striking.
Posture, setup, alignment, swing mechanics and course management are bigger factors imo based on what I see and what I’ve struggled with myself.
Just finished the episode and first off [USER=5944]@Lord Tox[/USER] you got 6 from [USER=60545]@jenisontheforum[/USER]
Enjoyed the episode tremendously and while in heads up match play I’ve always been on the receiving end of the pops- I do know that I felt some type of way about playing well- my match with Mr. Finley at the Grandaddy as prime example. – felt like I played better than the 10.1 that I came in as.
Great episode! I’ll answer the question of why a high handicapper thinks it’s fair to get strokes (I’ve fluctuated from a 14-17 this year). I know I’m playing more like a 17 and more often than not I’m going to have some big blowup holes. I need those strokes right now to keep things competitive if I’m playing a low index golfer.
I do agree with [USER=5944]@Lord Tox[/USER] though, the reason my handicap is big is because of driver mostly, so it I should not be getting strokes on a par 3 where I have 6 or 7 iron in my hand or less.
finally getting to listen and just cracked up when [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] says I was playing this guy…you know him, he’s our boss.
[QUOTE=”That post, post: 14195961, member: 65950″]
No, the basis of my argument is that high caps struggle with ball striking because they’re over swinging.
We’re just going to have to agree to disagree I suppose and that’s okay. Makes life interesting.
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I agree I’m over swinging. Specifically on course. I’m that “but I was so good on the range guy.” Well no sh** you were relaxed on the range and now you’re trying to [I]make[/I] the ball do something rather than just [I]trust[/I] it to do it.
[QUOTE=”That post, post: 14195805, member: 65950″]
There’s a really annoying guy on YouTube called golf sidekick that is proven that this is possible over and over again.
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[QUOTE=”Scooby45, post: 14195848, member: 62865″]
One: golfsidekick has a great swing – not the right comp
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Matt (Golf Sidekick) is around a 5 handicap, so hitting those shots is a lot easier for him than the average 15-20+ cap.
I do believe that the average 20 handicap is often going to score better taking easy swings with a club they’re comfortable with than going full send all day long, but a) I don’t think the difference is going to be [I]that[/I] dramatic, and b) they’re not suddenly going to be stealing candy from 2 handicappers with it.
Statistically in match play the lower handicap golfer will win more often. The lower the handicap the more consistent the golfer is and the more likely they are to play to their handicap.
From our friend Gemini:
When golfers play head-to-head singles match play using 100% of the handicap difference:
The Baseline Edge: In a comprehensive study that simulated over 70,000 matches using real scorecard data, the lower-handicap player won 53.1% of the matches.
The “Sweet Spot” for Low Handicappers: The lower-handicap advantage is most pronounced when the handicap difference is between 4 and 10 strokes, where the better player’s win rate climbs past 54%.
Historical Validation: When the Scottish Golf Union surveyed real-world tournament results, they found that under full handicap differences, the lower-handicap golfer won 55% of the time. (Back when courses used a 3/4 handicap allowance, the lower handicapper won a staggering 61% of the matches.)
In a large field net medal event I do believe it is hard for a low handicap to win. Higher handicapped golfer have a higher beta and in a large field a higher handicapped golfer is likely to shoot a low net score.
Listened this morning. No right or wrong, just an endless loop of arguments 😆