Golfers often say modern equipment is maxed out. New drivers aren’t really longer, annual releases are mostly marketing, and the gains are too small to matter.
Then many of those same golfers argue that equipment has become too powerful at the professional level. That contradiction drives the newest episode of Splitting Fairways.
Episode 7 asks whether golf equipment has actually peaked, or whether improvement has simply moved into areas that aren’t obvious on one perfect strike.
Both Ryan and Jeremy agree that modern equipment is still improving. The disagreement is more about how golfers define “better.”
Maximum distance is only part of the picture. Modern drivers are increasingly designed to preserve ball speed, launch, spin and direction when impact moves away from center. Two drivers may perform similarly on a perfect strike and very differently across the golfer’s normal pattern.
The episode also looks at fitting. Today’s driver families offer multiple heads, adjustable hosels, movable weights and different center-of-gravity locations. For golfers using poorly fit equipment, gains of 10 yards or more are still very real.
Podcast: Play in new window | Download




[QUOTE=”TWright, post: 14237671, member: 11048″]
Where did you get your fittings at? Do you think that made a difference?
The last fitting I went to a couple years ago was just to find the best Cobra Driver for me out of the new options and I let the fitter and his take on the data drive the fitting. I explained to him why I was there and the only sale he was making he had already made on the fitting fee so not sure if that changed the fitting at all, but I don’t think it did except it limited what we were trying to one manufacturer, and only the couple stock shafts that I knew we would have access to. But his talking points were still based on distance for me.
[/QUOTE]
Certainly not a a big box store. I have a couple on our YouTube channel. I was fortunate to have a couple really good ones this year.
The funny thing about [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] saying he’d give up 15 yards to never have to play a TV again, with as often as a TV twists and slips, you might be giving up those 15 yards anyways if you are playing a TV.
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14237689, member: 5944″]
Certainly not a a big box store. I have a couple on our YouTube channel. I was fortunate to have a couple really good ones this year.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I saw the Cobra and Mizuno ones. Would love to do those with the guys from the actual manufacturers.
Just years of conditioning i guess too. I mean distance sells and these guys are human. Agood fitter will highlight forgiveness and misses etc. But man most people will always pick the one that goes the longest, even if its like 2 yards further which you'll never notice on a course.
The Titleist GT1 i use is not my longest driver. But i feel the most comfortable with it and it's close.
Its a bit like 0-60 times with cars. People will be like "this car does 3.8 and this car does 4.2 seconds!" You will never drive a car like that on the road nor do you even notice the difference in practical terms.
You can hit a driver 272 versus 268 and feel a lot more confident with the 268 one, but that is hard to identify in a fitting session. People always pick the longer one.The trick is just owning 9 drivers
[QUOTE=”MikeG, post: 14237417, member: 15992″]
“you’re a 15 handicap, you don’t need an $800 dollar shaft in your driver”
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
[/QUOTE]
They clearly are unaware of the Lunatic Fringe!
[QUOTE=”Bryndom, post: 14237714, member: 53516″]
They clearly are unaware of the Lunatic Fringe!
[/QUOTE]
That was all [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] , always get the aftermarket or upgrade shaft if its an option hahaha
I will not say equipment has peaked. Speaking specifically to performance. But gains have 100% flattened. If that makes sense.
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14237775, member: 53139″]
I will not say equipment has peaked. Speaking specifically to performance. But gains have 100% flattened. If that makes sense.
[/QUOTE]
Distance gains I assume you are referring to?
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14237778, member: 5944″]
Distance gains I assume you are referring to?
[/QUOTE]
All gains really. It is going to be tiny (by comparison) incremental gains at this point.
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14237504, member: 68350″]
I think if people weren’t around in like 2010-2015 time frame, they might not understand the skepticism or contempt some people have for golf marketing. I’ve seen a lot of changes in the past decade, but man the OEMs came at you harder than telemarketers from Stratton Oakmont back then
I was happy that Ryan brought up the RBZ and “17 more yards”. This was the classic BS marketing people hated and it really changed the industry for like 5 years. Of course they never mentioned that the shaft was 1/2 inch longer than the standard 3 wood shaft. Guys would gain 10 yards in the sim bay and then not keep it on the planet on the real course.
The next year Callaway promised “up to 33 yards” on their woods. And we were off…..
Marketing is way better at explaining the incremental changes you get now. But if you weren’t playing in 2013 you missed that. The OEMs basically treated you like Jordan Belfort selling you junk stock
[/QUOTE]
2013 was peak ridiculosity in golf. I miss it. It’s never been the same since then. But I do like where we are headed. I’d be hard pressed to say that we won’t go back down that road again soon though, with ridiculous distance claims and a lot of… strategery by the marketing gurus.
[QUOTE=”Lougle, post: 14237832, member: 42778″]
2013 was peak ridiculosity in golf. I miss it. It’s never been the same since then. But I do like where we are headed. I’d be hard pressed to say that we won’t go back down that road again soon though, with ridiculous distance claims and a lot of… strategery by the marketing gurus.
[/QUOTE]
The crazy thing was some of those ridiculous claims where actually real. There was so much happening in the industry at that time. Optimization was just becoming a thing and there were lots of cheat codes being enabled.
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14237852, member: 53139″]
The crazy thing was some of those ridiculous claims where actually real. There was so much happening in the industry at that time. Optimization was just becoming a thing and there were lots of cheat codes being enabled.
[/QUOTE]
To me there were definitely improvements in clubs, but there was also some messing with the dials to be sim bay heroes.
Shafts getting a half inch longer and 20g lighter, for example. A 7-iron going from 35-36 degrees to 31-32 degrees over like a 5-6 year period.
It can be both things, clubs were getting better, but these guys knew exactly what they were doing, too
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14237852, member: 53139″]
The crazy thing was some of those ridiculous claims where actually real. There was so much happening in the industry at that time. Optimization was just becoming a thing and there were lots of cheat codes being enabled.
[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah. Someone here referenced the RBZ Fairway. I personally watched hundreds of people hit that thing farther than their gamer on a daily basis. I actually wish I could find a clean one now just to see if it is still a performer vs. the new stuff.
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14237875, member: 68350″]
To me there were definitely improvements in clubs, but there was also some messing with the dials to be sim bay heroes.
Shafts getting a half inch longer and 20g lighter, for example. A 7-iron going from 35-36 degrees to 31-32 degrees over like a 5-6 year period.
It can be both things, clubs were getting better, but these guys knew exactly what they were doing, too
[/QUOTE]
I was going to say that too. The distance wars definitely created a lot of confusion and misinformation and caused a lot of chaos for every OEM to try to keep up, whether it suited their goals or not. Interestingly, Titleist is one of the few who didn’t really partake, stuck to their tradition and release cycles, and here we are 10-15 years later and they remain one of the top dawgs if not the top dawg.
[QUOTE=”Lougle, post: 14237881, member: 42778″]
I was going to say that too. The distance wars definitely created a lot of confusion and misinformation and caused a lot of chaos for every OEM to try to keep up, whether it suited their goals or not. Interestingly, Titleist is one of the few who didn’t really partake, stuck to their tradition and release cycles, and here we are 10-15 years later and they remain one of the top dawgs if not the top dawg.
[/QUOTE]
There were 2 companies in particular really driving it, and some of the same marketing guys who worked at both. To me it was very scorched earth, it worked very well for 5-6 years, but even 10 years later as [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] said there is still people saying “i should be hitting it 400 yards by now” . This is a real thing, and a lot of it stems from that specific time period, a couple of companies and group of marketing guys.
Gotta hand it to them because they were successful, i’m sure got some nice bonuses and leveraged it for jobs outside the golf industry.
You’re right though Titleist didn’t do it much IIRC. Ping was pretty good too, they started intentionally advertising “weaker lofts” abit later in the decade and i don’t think ever really promised their drivers were gonna get you X amount of yards even in those crazy times
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14237891, member: 68350″]
There were 2 companies in particular really driving it, and some of the same marketing guys who worked at both. To me it was very scorched earth, it worked very well for 5-6 years, but even 10 years later as [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] said there is still people saying “i should be hitting it 400 yards by now” . This is a real thing, and a lot of it stems from that specific time period, a couple of companies and group of marketing guys.
Gotta hand it to them because they were successful, i’m sure got some nice bonuses and leveraged it for jobs outside the golf industry.
You’re right though Titleist didn’t do it much IIRC. Ping was pretty good too, they started intentionally advertising “weaker lofts” abit later in the decade and i don’t think ever really promised their drivers were gonna get you X amount of yards even in those crazy times
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure PING advertises that now haha. In fact we barely see any marketing from PING
I haven’t had a chance to listen yet, but equipment has not peaked. We will continue to see improvements through new materials and with the help of Ai and 3d printing, there is plenty of progress to made it. [USER=2320]@Canadan[/USER]’s podcast with Cobra touched on the fact that the surface is really just being scratched with 3d printing.
[QUOTE=”Jeff Spicoli, post: 14237949, member: 10545″]
I haven’t had a chance to listen yet, but equipment has not peaked. We will continue to see improvements through new materials and with the help of Ai and 3d printing, there is plenty of progress to made it. [USER=2320]@Canadan[/USER]’s podcast with Cobra touched on the fact that the surface is really just being scratched with 3d printing.
[/QUOTE]
3DP is an interesting one. Some think its the future, others don’t believe in it.
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14237955, member: 5944″]
3DP is an interesting one. Some think its the future, others don’t believe in it.
[/QUOTE]
Hearing the talk about adjusting the lattice structure to improve feel was mind blowing to me.
[QUOTE=”Jeff Spicoli, post: 14237962, member: 10545″]
Hearing the talk about adjusting the lattice structure to improve feel was mind blowing to me.
[/QUOTE]
Right? Pretty wild.
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14237965, member: 5944″]
Right? Pretty wild.
[/QUOTE]
Going back to the premise, I have seen an improvement with each model of the Callaway drivers and fairways year to year. The improvement has been in the forgiveness area and with the consistency in spin and launch. If anyone followed along with the Kinetixx event, they know that shaft technology is not tapped out yet.
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14237929, member: 5944″]
I’m not sure PING advertises that now haha. In fact we barely see any marketing from PING
[/QUOTE]
When we were at Golf Galaxy last week getting my dad fit for irons, he said directly “I didn’t know PING still made clubs”.
[QUOTE=”amarkabove, post: 14238081, member: 75272″]
When we were at Golf Galaxy last week getting my dad fit for irons, he said directly “I didn’t know PING still made clubs”.
[/QUOTE]
Funny story about PING as well. I was talking to guy at a graduation party and a friend introduced me as the golf guy haha. He said I need new clubs I haven’t played in 15 years, what should I buy, PING? My response….definitely not haha. He was taken back by that and said he needed to rethink everything.
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14238091, member: 5944″]
Funny story about PING as well. I was talking to guy at a graduation party and a friend introduced me as the golf guy haha. He said I need new clubs I haven’t played in 15 years, what should I buy, PING? My response….definitely not haha. He was taken back by that and said he needed to rethink everything.
[/QUOTE]
Ha! Yeah, my dad’s next question was “should I try them?” and I said “you’re more than welcome to but I know you won’t end up them” which is the same thing I said about theTaylorMade Qi irons as well, and he hit both of them and said “yeah, you were right” after 3 swings with each. It was a very proud moment for me.
[QUOTE=”TWright, post: 14237632, member: 11048″]
Do you feel that fittings still focus on picking up the most distance, or the longest strike because that is still what sells best and is easier to show/explain?
[/QUOTE]
I feel that they got too data centric and have less skilled doing it, while masking a retail store and trying to sell equipment. Im for sales, I like advertising and marketing, but I dont like how its being done in this controlled environment. With that said, I am not sure there is a better option, I just think too many bad golfers are trying to rely on a shaft change to fix bad swings and too many good golfers or skyfisters “know what they know”. Every experience we host, shows how wrong both segments are.
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14237775, member: 53139″]
I will not say equipment has peaked. Speaking specifically to performance. But gains have 100% flattened. If that makes sense.
[/QUOTE]
Strong disagree, but I am curious if you have watched or listened as of yet. Because this was discussed a bit with the different elements.
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14237929, member: 5944″]
I’m not sure PING advertises that now haha. In fact we barely see any marketing from PING
[/QUOTE]
They don’t do demo days at my club anymore. It’s very strange, they used to but seem to have scaled back in many ways
My early golf years I was a huge Ping guy. They don’t feel like the same company they were 15 years ago, which is sad.
the question feels a bit like click-bait because there are so many gains being made in so many aspects in real time…
but also, the idea that innovation will not find something new? I know it was not meant that way…was solid episode. They are talking about WMX and rebel grips even as I type this…just even the grips have possibility but also, as time goes on, new materials, new manufacturing methods, rethinking “settled” ideas and finding something new and creative…
I would be far more shocked if there were NOT advances than if there are.
This might have been the spiciest so far.
I need to roll through this thread on a night after few beverages. Drop some knowledge takes.
This was a good listen. Got me through filling out some boring forms.
fair point/s. Of course lets not forget we all now that swing tweaks (or changes) have their place as well.
I had a fit quite number of years ago. Which at this point is meaningless because lessons on several occasions since then have changed my swing enough. Except probably for 1/2" long the rest is probably meaningless. But going back to when I bought my epic flash driver which I was not fitted but I did however work with a very knowledgeable staff member helping mem at the time. made a number of trips and got on the sim numerous times. What I/we did was place the available 5 (I think) shafts in the head that were the non upcharge choices callaway had with the epic at the time. Doing this a bunch of times on different occasions before locking in on the shaft I ended up with. It was quite incredible as for the differences I felt and the results of consistency I had between (of the 5 shafts) the one that worked best for me vs the worst one. If I also recall It wasnt negligeable but quite different results in hurting or helping me swing the club and delivering it better/worse.
That experience was more than enough to open my eyes as for how much a shaft can mean to the swing of one who has less consistency. Of course the swing flaw/s causeing inconsistency is the swing flaw no shaft is fixing that (and niether is a head) but it was clear that (relatively speaking) one shaft did allow me to place the better swing on the ball more often more comfortably and also resulted in best dispersion rate and overall success vs he others. Not just one try but a bunch of returns to the sim to do same thing on different occasions. So I have a hard time dismissing or minimizing the relevance or impact to a swing a different shaft can (for better/worse) produce for a given player. I feel from that experience they do make a real and measurable difference. If im wrong about that then i dont what I experienced those several times I did that which always made me have best over all results with the shaft I ended up choosing vs the others. cant be just coincidence and to avoid coincidence I purposely went back and did it all a bunch of times.
It’s definitely peaked.
In 2026.
It took 8 years to get to GTS. I’m sure Titleist didn’t just quit.
Good discussion, guys. Enjoyed it.
Great episode. I definitely don’t think equipment has peaked but I also don’t think you need to be buying the latest and greatest every year.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14238156, member: 3″]
I feel that they got too data centric and have less skilled doing it, while masking a retail store and trying to sell equipment. Im for sales, I like advertising and marketing, but I dont like how its being done in this controlled environment. With that said, I am not sure there is a better option, I just think too many bad golfers are trying to rely on a shaft change to fix bad swings
[/QUOTE]
I think the same notion was (and maybe still is) thought of when driver heads became more adjustable. As though cures for slices and hooks and etc are to be fixed with the head vs the swing itself.
I been intending over past year and half to get new clubs and be fitted. But I had bunch of lessons and the swing changes have been a real long process which is still taking place. I will not go till I feel I have enough (relatively speaking) of the swing changes engrained to some good level more of consistency before i ever even bother with a fit and new set. Its coming along better as of late but stil not quite enough for me to decide to make the move yet. Once I feel I can consistently enough deliver the clubs with out varying too much, then I’ll take the plunge. I have no ida just when but I just taking it as it comes. For all I know could be next month or even next year. But will not go till I feel justy confident enough that i got the good enough amount of consistency with my swing to make the fitting much more accurate and worthwhile vs it still being a bit too sloppy.
I dont know of thats the right or wrong ideology but i see no benefit to a fitting with a swing thats still yet a bit too variable sloppy.
[QUOTE=”MikeG, post: 14237417, member: 15992″]
“you’re a 15 handicap, you don’t need an $800 dollar shaft in your driver”
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
[/QUOTE]
I believe he said “a [B]stupid[/B] $800 shaft” 😎
Great listen. Enjoyed the conversation. Definitely dont think equipment had peaked. A lot of interesting tech advancements in several areas. I think if you upgrade to the latest and greatest every year, you arent going to notice differences as much, but there still are improvements. It is really interesting how fitting has shifted from being so shaft focused, especially in driver. I hadnt thought about that but remember that being the focus when i was last really fit. 😂
I am sure we will continue to see advancements for a long time in most areas.
Good stuff gents.
[QUOTE=”Revan, post: 14238988, member: 76476″]
I believe he said “a [B]stupid[/B] $800 shaft” 😎
[/QUOTE]
😂
That really was a comment on the stories people share from a certain company’s “brand agnostic” fittings every now and then.
[QUOTE=”rollin, post: 14238524, member: 13239″]
fair point/s. Of course lets not forget we all now that swing tweaks (or changes) have their place as well.
I had a fit quite number of years ago. Which at this point is meaningless because lessons on several occasions since then have changed my swing enough. Except probably for 1/2″ long the rest is probably meaningless. But going back to when I bought my epic flash driver which I was not fitted but I did however work with a very knowledgeable staff member helping mem at the time. made a number of trips and got on the sim numerous times. What I/we did was place the available 5 (I think) shafts in the head that were the non upcharge choices callaway had with the epic at the time. Doing this a bunch of times on different occasions before locking in on the shaft I ended up with. It was quite incredible as for the differences I felt and the results of consistency I had between (of the 5 shafts) the one that worked best for me vs the worst one. If I also recall It wasnt negligeable but quite different results in hurting or helping me swing the club and delivering it better/worse.
That experience was more than enough to open my eyes as for how much a shaft can mean to the swing of one who has less consistency. Of course the swing flaw/s causeing inconsistency is the swing flaw no shaft is fixing that (and niether is a head) but it was clear that (relatively speaking) one shaft did allow me to place the better swing on the ball more often more comfortably and also resulted in best dispersion rate and overall success vs he others. Not just one try but a bunch of returns to the sim to do same thing on different occasions. So I have a hard time dismissing or minimizing the relevance or impact to a swing a different shaft can (for better/worse) produce for a given player. I feel from that experience they do make a real and measurable difference. If im wrong about that then i dont what I experienced those several times I did that which always made me have best over all results with the shaft I ended up choosing vs the others. cant be just coincidence and to avoid coincidence I purposely went back and did it all a bunch of times.
[/QUOTE]
Yea, like I said – I’m not discounting the impact shaft selection can have on results. I think that’s been a pretty common theme if you look at some of the fittings I’ve gone through in the last 18 months.
It’s almost a chicken/egg argument in some ways. Still though, I stand by what I’ve said. Find a shaft that gets you close to center the most often, and then the head will dial in the launch conditions.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 14239119, member: 1193″]
😂
That really was a comment on the stories people share from a certain company’s “brand agnostic” fittings every now and then.
[/QUOTE]
I was always a “you gotta do a brand agnostic fitting” guy but the way you explained it…I kinda get why someone wouldn’t.
[QUOTE=”Revan, post: 14239252, member: 76476″]
I was always a “you gotta do a brand agnostic fitting” guy but the way you explained it…I kinda get why someone wouldn’t.
[/QUOTE]
I know there are places where it does exist, but even then I have my doubts lol. Too many stories and signs that say otherwise.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 14239258, member: 1193″]
I know there are places where it does exist, but even then I have my doubts lol. Too many stories and signs that say otherwise.
[/QUOTE]
Nobody knows it better than the OEM in my opinion.
[QUOTE=”Revan, post: 14239252, member: 76476″]
I was always a “you gotta do a brand agnostic fitting” guy but the way you explained it…I kinda get why someone wouldn’t.
[/QUOTE]
Man, its tough because you want it to be truly that way but everyone has a bias and sometimes its for the wrong reasons.
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14239318, member: 5944″]
Man, its tough because you want it to be truly that way but everyone has a bias and sometimes its for the wrong reasons.
[/QUOTE]
some of us…not me of course, someone else…are so ignorant in general that brand agnostic works because we don’t know.
not me of course. someone else. cannot emphasize that enough. Not me. I know things.
[QUOTE=”MikeG, post: 14237417, member: 15992″]
“you’re a 15 handicap, you don’t need an $800 dollar shaft in your driver”
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
[/QUOTE]
[IMG alt=”Jada Pinkett Smith Periodt GIF by Red Table Talk”]https://media3.giphy.com/media/LwyaORSd9liNZ6MyuX/200.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14238233, member: 68350″]
They don’t do demo days at my club anymore. It’s very strange, they used to but seem to have scaled back in many ways
My early golf years I was a huge Ping guy. They don’t feel like the same company they were 15 years ago, which is sad.
[/QUOTE]
It’s kinda funny – they’re headquartered in Arizona, but the three OEMs who do demo days at my previous club (in….Arizona) are Callaway, TaylorMade and Mizuno.
My current club has mostly Ping, TaylorMade, and I think some Titleist, in their pro shop – I joined just before summer and summer isn’t demo season here, but it’ll be interesting to see who they have lined up for demo days when the time comes.
I was a big PING guy earlier in my golf years, still have a soft spot for the Eye2 irons and the Big Bertha driver was pretty revolutionary for its time.
PING feels a lot like Titleist to me…I think of them both as kind of stodgy traditionalist OEMs who have a lane and don't stray too far from it year over year, and they both have their devoted fans who would never consider playing anything else. The divergence in my mind is that I've always considered PING as geared more toward GI/SGI, and Titleist geared more toward low handicaps/pros.
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14237929, member: 5944″]
I’m not sure PING advertises that now haha. In fact we barely see any marketing from PING
[/QUOTE]
I think they have diverted all of their marketing into ugly hats.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14238156, member: 3″]
I feel that they got too data centric and have less skilled doing it, while masking a retail store and trying to sell equipment. Im for sales, I like advertising and marketing, but I dont like how its being done in this controlled environment. With that said, I am not sure there is a better option, I just think too many bad golfers are trying to rely on a shaft change to fix bad swings and too many good golfers or skyfisters “know what they know”. Every experience we host, shows how wrong both segments are.
Strong disagree, but I am curious if you have watched or listened as of yet. Because this was discussed a bit with the different elements.
[/QUOTE]
Turning numbers green on a launch monitor should not be a fitting. But people eat it up. Similar thing across many fields these days, pretty and easily digestible sells better purely the best thing.
[QUOTE=”Bosco…, post: 14238768, member: 65357″]
It’s definitely peaked.
In 2026.
It took 8 years to get to GTS. I’m sure Titleist didn’t just quit.
[/QUOTE]
LOL I was thinking that things had peaked at the GT line. Then along came the GTS drivers and fairways. The driver was a real change in specs for me so I cant call the pickup in performance ground breaking, but the 16.5* fairway? Just daaaang. I am 67, hittng that bumped up to 18* an average height of 102′, and 229 carry. Thats the same as I hit a wound ball with a persimmon 40 years ago. Crazy.